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Are they cheating Norman Reedus?

Discussion in 'Daryl / Norman Reedus' started by Riko813, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. Riko813

    Riko813 Eating 112 oz. of Pudding
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    Is TWD cheating Norman Reedus out of good meaty story lines or arcs for Daryl. I think TWD missed a good opportunity in episode 3 of season 7 to really showcase Norman Reedus' acting skills. We didn't get to see the real depth of Daryl's despair. Daryl had just lost two members of TF. One of them he believed he was responsible for getting killed. There was no peering into the core of his being. No deep scenes where the audience could put themselves into his shoes and sympathize with his pain. No self reflection, no flashbacks to his past growing up, no flashbacks to Glen being lucilled or to him jumping out of line and punching Negan. There were no flash forwards in his mind to thoughts about how TF would treat him after he gets back. For goodness sake, he is in a dark room alone with his thoughts most of the time (even with that horrible music playing most of the time), there should have been more scenes on his thoughts and his soul searching. There were no scenes with him physically hurting himself in the cell. Nothing.

    The torture scenes should have been with him and Negan or him and Simon. Dwight doing it had no impact. TWD imo wanted us to believe Negan is enamored with Daryl but they failed to have him take control of Daryl's torture personally. Negan should have focused on Daryl like he focused on Rick. This episode should have been the epic breaking of Daryl. I expected water boarding, whipping, constant mental torturing about killing Glen, extreme demeaning, and stuff to try topush Daryl over the edge mentally. It didn't happen. This was the fluffiest torture ever. It didn't give NR the opportunity to bring Daryl to the edge of the precipice of self loathing and insanity and then bring him back showing his true strength of character.


    What do you think?
     
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  2. Harshmallow

    Harshmallow Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    I think a truly good actor can do marvelous things with just a few minutes and no dialog at all. He's a meh actor to me. I don't think there's more to him than what we've seen.
     
    #2 Harshmallow, Nov 7, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  3. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    I like Daryl and think NR is effective in the role but just effective. We will never see Daryl having Rick level scenes no matter the circumstances because he isn't as compelling as AL. thats just the truth. In Daryl episodes we always see the same few emotions even in bottles. Look at how many different ways we have seen Rick cry as a comparison. NR is limited because he gets what he can handle. I love his spirit as Daryl but just don't rely on him for great cinematic moments.

    I also have to say I think people expected much more torture than what the purpose was. Negan said Daryl would be seriously harmed IF TF didn't produce. He never said he was going to torture Daryl over Glenn.
     
  4. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    No offense, but NR is a good actor? On what planet? I have seen Boondock Saint and Sean Patrick Flannery was faaaaar better than NR
     
  5. Niolle

    Niolle Wearing a Necklace of Ears

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    I agree, and maybe that was done on purpose. I mean, if there was a real Negan/Daryl focus in this episode, everyone would compare it to Rick/Negan scenes, and i don't think NR's level of acting is anywhere close to AL and JDM.
     
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  6. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Exactly. I feel like they spread the focus across many and The Sanctuary as a whole because we don't need a Daryl character study, especially opposite Negan. I feel like the Negan/Carl scenes are gonna be more intense.
     
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  7. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
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    I agree. Using a TWD example, we've seen Andy do so much with nothing and without saying a word several times. NR just doesn't have the chops nor the screen prescence and that becomes evident again and again every time we have a Daryl-centric episode. I don't think the writing would change anything.
     
  8. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    I agree. I like Daryl but anyone thinking NR could carry the show is deluding themselves.
     
  9. Lennykae

    Lennykae Scott Gimple is the Janet Evanovich of TV.
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    When Walker!Merle was approaching Daryl, I actually for a second thought :merle: "recognized" him. It was a lot more subtle and gripping than this:crydaryl: :lol: . I don't deny my current Daryl bias, but I still liked him at that time.


    I don't know if his angst is supposed to come off as pouty and childish as it does. I always feel like he needs to grow up. Carol's angst can be frustrating, but it's never childish and immature. I believe he portrays it the only way he knows how.
     
  10. Riko813

    Riko813 Eating 112 oz. of Pudding
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    hmmm i'm just wondering if most of your prejudices against Norman Reedus cloud your vision. NR could give an Emmy worthy performance and some would not be able to appreciate it because of their built in bias against him. Now with that said, I haven't seen him give an Emmy awarding winning performance in the walking dead yet, but imo the writers should give him a more meaty script to test the range of his acting for the potential of greatness. They need to give the character of Daryl a little more depth.
     
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  11. Silas

    Silas Beloved Side Piece
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    I think TWD has given Norman Reedus the chance to showcase his range before and, imo, he's fallen flat every last time. Season 1, when he realizes Merle was gone we got the cry face. Season 2, when he lashed out at Carol (also Lori), when he couldn't find Sophia and started screaming her name...same face, different words. Season 3 when Merle dies? Same face. And on it goes. Norman Reedus does not do emotional scenes very well. Every time he gets a highly charged scene I feel awkward and a level of secondhand embarrassment if I'm being completely honest. Other people on the cast can convey different emotions, more effectively, without something "huge" happening to them - their eyes, their expressions, hand twitches. Daryl just bunches up his face and cries real hard...sometimes with yelling.

    So no, I don't think TWD is short changing NR. I think, if anything, they've finally learned he can't act his way out of a shoebox so they kept the last episode simple. Thank God.
     
  12. Harshmallow

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    They have given him his fair amount of screen time to shine; emotional moment after emotional moment, but he just falls short. And he's had four bottle episodes. More than most. And let's not pretend like the writing for Rick Grimes is fantastic, but Andy does pull through with what they give him.
     
  13. nat_richonne

    nat_richonne The New Mrs. Grimes

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    This is NR's face in most of Daryl's emotional scenes.


    I think NR is the only actor on TWD that isn't short changed. In fact, I think his storylines are written to accommodate his acting chops which I feel is mediocre at its best.

    OT: but why is this picture tagged Richonne? :rant:
     
  14. accioval

    accioval Watchtower Sniper
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    I just don't think that NR is a very good actor who also has very limited range. I do think that he was a lot better in earlier seasons though, so I don't know what happened, but I've seen stronger actors on the show do so much with limited screen time (Sonequa comes to mind), that I don't think it's a material thing at this point. He's simply given what he can do. But for me, AL is the strongest actor on this show, and I'll use Claimed (?) as a comparison. In that episode we saw Rick hide under a bed with barely any lines, but it was so compelling because Andy is an extraordinary actor who puts his entire body and soul into his performance. He's just that good. Norman isn't terribly bad, but he's not on that level.
     
  15. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Exactly. I don't think Norman is bad, he's just limited. Bad would be not being able to buy him as Daryl. I think it's ok for now because Daryl is emotionally stunted at the moment. The problem is I'm ready for Daryl to mature and I hope NR can deliver that in the coming episodes. I wasn't expecting a tour de force of acting from him in this episode. That sucks in a sense but I'm also like whatever. It is what it is at this point and I like Daryl as a TF member. I am curious what someone else would do with the role though.
     
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  16. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    I like Daryl and have nothing against NR but I view his acting ability objectively. He has been given multiple bottles and great scenes to work with and yet we still only see so much. A great actor can make any scene compelling for them if they have the range. He could have easily made the scene after getting Glenn's pic his moment but all we got was his usual crying. I did feel sad for him but it didn't go that deep because HE didn't go that deep not because it was not written that deep. Imagine some of the other actors with just that to work with. I'm not being mean or biased, it's just an honest assessment based on 6 seasons of work.
     
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  17. Tisha Grimes

    Tisha Grimes Stay Strong
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    I think Norman does a fine job. Could he be better yeah. They all could be better at times.
     
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  18. Mousey

    Mousey Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Is AMC giving Daryl good, deep material? No, they're really not. And it's a shame, but I wouldn't say a HORRIBLE shame, because he still gets a crazy amount of screentime and is the TWD mascot by a huge freaking margin. (I mean, Norman got his own show purely off TWD popularity, so in some ways he's absolutely not hurting.)

    But in the case of last night, his grief and whatnot, I am beyond glad they didn't show us that because I'm in the camp who believes Daryl had a hand in Glenn's death. It would boil my blood to see Daryl get to grapple with Glenn and Abraham dying before the women they loved really get to (and even on a small scale they've already done that because of episode timing & placement).

    Part of the reason they're not giving Daryl good material is because of the fans' expectations, and we all know it. Daryl is the ultimate badass of this show (whether you agree or not, it's the perception that won out). People don't want to see him being sad and having feelings: they want to see him growling and showing his arms and being surly, and that was proven time & time again when they had Sad Daryl episodes and fans & critics both complained.

    The other thing that stymies Daryl is that they can't give him a real "love interest" or connection at this point, because that woman gets drowned in hate mail from some type of fan, since he's so popular and desired by such a huge chunk of the viewers. Ruins the fantasy and all that. It's a hotbed and one that there's almost no good way out of, but since he's such an untethered character with no living family left, his trajectory feels aimless and weird. Can't let him move forward or have catharsis because of expectations placed on the franchise. And it's honestly sad.
     
  19. Clutterbuck

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    My dislike for NR has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of actors I don't like but I can recognize when they've given great performances. Most of the time I don't think NR's performances are utterly horrendous. I think most of the time he's mediocre, he's blah, he's nothing to write home about, etc. If he gave an Emmy worthy performance I'd recognize it. I agree with @accioval in that I think the writers give NR what he can do and then normally he gives a passable performance. But when they give him material he can't handle his shortcomings are magnified. In my opinion he can't handle heavy/weighty material, he can't lead, he can't do what Andy does for this show. And that's fine. Every actor is not cut out to be a lead, every actor doesn't have what it takes to carry a project.

    The show just needs to realize that NR can't do the heavy lifting and stop giving us Daryl-centric episodes because they fall flat. He's been playing this character for 7 seasons now and he's not a new actor, I very much doubt he has some masterful acting potential hidden away somewhere that will flourish if they suddenly gave Daryl amazing material. Plus like @Mousey said the chances that they'd give Daryl something of considerable weight are slim to none at this stage in the game.
     
  20. Lilly965

    Lilly965 Wig Shopping For Michonne
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    Well he doesn't bother to know other characters storylines or remember his lines so how can he improve his acting?

    His contribution to the script is licking his hand to shake hands with someone and the shitty bike.

    He doesn't need to try due to fangirls and AMC
     
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