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Carl and his insecurity

Discussion in '6x11: Knots Untie' started by Doctor Grimes, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    What do you guys think about the glimmer of Carl's insecurity in this episode about his face? He made note of how a kid with a "messed up face" wouldn't make a good impression.

    In the comic, Carl went to Hilltop. He snuck on board the RV. This time? Carl refuses to go out of concern of his appearance. It's heartbreaking.

    Rick sort of dropped the ball on comforting his son, which could be indicative of a coming rift between them. I think Rick feels terrible guilt over what happened to Carl, so acknowledging his eye/trauma would make it more "real", so Rick is dodging talking to his son about what happened.

    Could this be leading to
    Carl gravitating to Negan later?

    What did you guys think?
     
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  2. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    They're very subtle with how they're handling the impact of Carl's injury. Last week, he was markedly colder or more indifferent to Enid and didn't indulge her teen girl angst. He's not angry like his GN counterpart, just more distant.

    However, his relationship with Michonne is solid as evidenced with his reveal last week about wanting to be the one to put her down and allowing her to hug him. I believe it will be this relationship that moves him into full recovery down the road.

    Regarding the scene with Rick last night, everything is indeed done with a purpose and it was absolutely an awkward scene. Carl is very insecure about his face and Rick did nothing to console him. Now, it could be Rick treating his teenage son like a 'man' or it could be that Rick is consumed with guilt over Carl's injury and is avoiding talking about it. Who knows. But, yes, there is definitely unfinished business between father and son.

    Carl bonds with Negan and his injury is a key part to that. I definitely see this as a foreshadowing of things to come next season.

    Having said that, I'm so relieved that they didn't make Carl go Full Sociopath post-injury. He's still our boy.
     
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  3. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I thought maybe it was Rick just trying to give Carl some manly "tough love" business, but given Carl showing his dad any vulnerability it was so weird Rick just ignored him. I think Rick looked uncomfortable, but then he was just like, "Here take your sister."

    I do think going into season 7 we'll see Rick and Carl at a bit of a rift.
     
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  4. sleepywitchysamurai

    sleepywitchysamurai Hiding in Dale's RV

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    :eek: Carl. Bonds. With. Negan??!!! Negan. At this point, I don't know if I should pick up the comics or not.
    I agree with y'all, Rick- for whatever reason- did not handle that confession and subtle cry for help, well. I did notice that after Carl said it, it looked as if he was trying to respond but decided against it or did not know what to say. I feel like anything would have been better than, here you go, take your sister.

    But as @MamaGrimes said, Michonne might be the key, the person to ground Carl in his humanity. All those times she is changing his wound dressing, I'm sure they have talked about it. And with the turn of events this episode, they have more things to talk about. My hope is that this season, just as we will see a whole lotta Richonne, that we also see Carchonne bonding.
     
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  5. Iguessiamhere

    Iguessiamhere Survivor of Many Disasters
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    I think rational, practical part of Carl doesn't blame his father, but their might be some linger feelings of resentment, because his father got in too involved with Andersons. Now, he less of "man". I think there may be some discord between his Father and himself.
     
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  6. cgomes

    cgomes Ricktator

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    I guess we'll definitely get Carl bonding with Negan.
    Rick probably feels guilty or maybe he doesn't want Carl to feel bad for the way he looks now, but he just doesn't know how to handle the situation very well, I don't know.
    And yes, I agree that Michonne could be the one to help Carl with this. I just wanted to see someone talking to that poor boy.
     
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  7. forevermichonne

    forevermichonne Negan's crusty toes on Michonne's good carpet
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    What was slightly shocking to me was by their conversation, Carl knew about Rick and Jessie enough for him to know it was heading in a "romantic" direction. That was weird to me because I thought he was out of the loop. Did Rick tell him in those two months?

    Considering that, I maybe figured Carl had another reason why he wanted to stay back, and the eye situation is the end all be all of arguments. He knew his daddy can't say anything else about it, which is how I took Rick reacting the way he did. It reminded me of the scene in Clear when Carl asked to go out and get a crib.

    There is a guilt on Rick's part and insecurity on Carl's, I'm just not sure why Rick didn't say anything. He definitely wanted to.
     
  8. Silas

    Silas Eating 112 oz. of Pudding
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    It looked like Rick wanted to say something but just didn't know what - or couldn't. It reminds me of the early days when Shane asked Rick if he talked about his feelings. I think it's something the man struggles with. I don't think it was because he sees Carl as a man or any of that jazz though. Man or not, your son is always your son. And Rick doesn't strike me as the type to purposely tell his son to "man up".

    As far as what it means for the future, I definitely think it's the first glimmer of a conflict. Carl is dealing with shit and Rick isn't equipped to handle it. So what else might Carl think his pops is ill equipped for?
     
  9. Ship Verse

    Ship Verse Good Riddance 2016. 2017, Let's talk.
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    Ok so I've been thinking about this a lot. As far as Carl knowing about Jessie, Carl is very inquisitive and observant. I am sure he understood his Dad was taking a liking to Jessie. Rick barely wanted to interact with anyone in Alexandria but her. Seeing his father lose it in the middle of the street, being there when Rick was knocked out and afterwards, I'm sure Michonne filled him in. Carl knew the infatuation and I think he saw it as such, he wasn't about it which is why he was far removed from it, but he isn't a dumb kid.

    Rick saying "This is Different", to me is an affirmation and understanding that:
    1. I know you aren't dumb, Carl. I know you saw me act a fool, but this is different.
    2. I know how close you are with Michonne and I won't screw anything up that would jeopardize your relationship.
    3. Can I have your blessing? (Not really, but really)
    As far as Carl's mental. I think this is Michonne's area. I think we will have a callback to...
    [​IMG]
    And now to him at least, he will look the part. It won't be a darker Carl, but a much more defeated Carl. Like he won't be able to live up to his father's expectations or the expectations he set for himself. I think this would lead up to a beautiful Carchonne moment, because I don't think Carl has ever spoke about his feelings to anyone but her, further solidifying that role as Mom, for Michonne. I hope she gives him the comic pep talk (that being prefaced by the fight scene where Carl couldn't shoot). I am trying to wrap my head around Carl and Negan. If Negan is the big bad boogieman, I don't see our Carl being infatuated with someone like that. Unless the rift between Carl and Rick grows, but I feel like that has happened and sailed. So I am hoping Carl's arc is not dark, not Governor-esque, but grown-up. He has a little sister, and I think he will want to protect her at all costs and somehow feeling inept in doing do. Then through Michonne, his father, he learns he can because he has to. I think Negan would take a liking to Carl rather the other way around. I don't like the idea of anyone being cool with a dude that will for all intents and purposes change TF forever, no matter who gets the bat.

    As far as the Carl and Rick moment. I think Rick was just at a lost for words. Almost anything would have been good to say, but Rick is not a talker, no matter how many great speeches he makes. Especially when it comes to emotional stuff. I think there is that guilt there, but I think at that moment he was at a loss. I think Carl is putting on a front to protect his father. So he doesn't feel guilty. I mean in 610 he is all normal doing PT, alive and kicking, so Rick, probably thought everything was good with him, until Carl let that bit slip. So now he's on notice. I think he will address it.
     
  10. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Yeah you're right. While I said maybe that's what Rick was doing it would be OOC -- because Rick definitely never has struck me as the "tough love" sort of dad. But he was definitely at a loss as to what to say or do. Good call back to the original Shane conversation. I do think there's some truth to Rick just having a hard time expressing himself in words. (Which is why it kills me Rick didn't even hug Carl, because Rick hasn't shied away from showing his feelings -- and Carl could've used it.)
     
  11. Tater

    Tater Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I attributed Rick's discomfort to guilt. The fact that Rick's relationship with Jessie was alluded to immediately prior to Carl bringing up his eye must have affected him in some way. Rick seemed apologetic when he said it was different. The way I read his, "this is different" was an acknowledgement that that his relationship with Jessie wasn't serious enough for the problems it caused. He was reassuring Carl that his relationship with Michonne was serious. After saying that and then being reminded of Carl's eye injury, I can see why Rick would be so uncomfortable.
     
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  12. Silas

    Silas Eating 112 oz. of Pudding
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    I suppose it's possible Rick might have thought Carl wouldn't appreciate the gesture. There comes a point when your kids get older and even though you wanna give 'em a hug or a good word or two, you worry they'll shy away from such a thing. And Carl is an angsty teenager at the moment. And yeah, a hug would've worked too. Something, ffs. At least a pat on the back, a shoulder rub. But either way, no matter why Rick picked that moment to forgo to the comfort, I think it's probably intentional on the writer's behalf.
     
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  13. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
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    Yes this is exactly what I thought. I could only think that my dad would react exactly the way Rick did, he's not exactly great with emotionally charged awkward situations(which he apparently passed onto me lol). I think Rick was just at a loss for words, hell I would be too, I wouldn't know what to say. You don't know what to do, so you don't do anything.
     
  14. Nicole

    Nicole Survivor of Many Disasters

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    When I first watched the scene I wanted to hug Carl so badly. Its easy to believe someone is ok because they want you to believe it, but sometimes they slip. or maybe not slip but kind of let something out to test your reaction to see if they can say anything else. I saw rick as surprised that his son isn't as ok as he seemed to be. I feel like he wanted to say something but knew the conversation shouldn't happen right now when Rick really doesn't have the time to help. That statement is gonna stay in Ricks head and hes gonna address it eventually because for too long all hes wanted is to make this world safe for his kids and at least part of the reason his child got hurt is because of his actions. I still think he should've at least rubbed his shoulder or something to at least show acknowledgement of his sons true feelings.
     
  15. Leannan

    Leannan Eating 112 oz. of Pudding

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    Rick and Carl are very honest with each other, Carl I think let it slip. Even Carl looked uncomfortable once he said it. Rick was downright taken aback by it. I Rick being the person he is, will make a mental note of what Carl said, and will address somewhere down the line. Which worries me, Rick has always been the type to think there's always time to talk to someone. when he figures out exactly what he wants to say to them.
    . He has an emotional bond with Michonne I don't think will ever be broken. But he does need Rick to talk to him about it, father to son. I think it's gong to be addressed.
     
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  16. Appetence

    Appetence Eternally failing at productivity bc TITTD
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    I sensed that too. Poor Carl. :( It's heartbreaking. I would imagine that it isn't as tough for him when it is covered by the bandage, but whenever he looks at his face without it?......ugh. Poor kid. I have a feeling one of the big moments that will reveal his real insecurity with it will be with Enid for some reason. They're developing angst there between them for a reason.
     
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  17. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I just hope they don't have Enid lick his eyesocket like Lydia did in the comic (please no), but yeah I could see Enid being his confidante.

    I do think we'll have a moment where Carl looks at his eyesocket in the mirror a la the Governor later. Because they're going to want to show us at some point how extensive the damage is -- just to underscore why it's affecting Carl so severely.
     
  18. Latrice

    Latrice Watchtower Sniper
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    My heart did break a bit for Carl when he made that confession about his eye. It did look like Rick wanted to say something but just didn't know what to say. I do think he wants to talk to him about it but it is doubtful that upcoming events are going to allow him to. Ngl the possiblity of Carl and Negan getting closer kinda scares but I do think that Michonne is going to help him come to peace with everything. It feels like Rick and Carl are trying to find a new balance because he isn't quite an adult but he isn't quite a kid either.