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Carol

Discussion in '7x08: Hearts Still Beating' started by tuswig, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. Philly Girl

    Philly Girl Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    LOL! You really, really don't like Carol. I am over Carol. She is selfish ( she dipped on her family after the Savior raid) and she can be mean (that story she told Sam about being eaten by monsters the way she is just down right disrespectful to Morgan even tho he saved her life) she is sanctimonious (how many lectures did she give Morgan about his no violence ways) a hypocrite (pretending about who she is to the Alexandrians but calling Zeke out on the façade to help his people). And I am tired of the writers treating her like Iron Man, the Hulk and Captain America rolled into one. Please don't let her single handedly save the day again. I really don't care if she comes back into the fold. If she doesn't want to be bothered with people, move away from people!. Bye Carol! It was sometimes nice knowing you (Not lately tho).
     
  2. ALDGRichonneLover

    ALDGRichonneLover "I wanted it to be ours, me and you"
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    I was a Carol fan for a long time, but NEVER saw her as this Terminator/All Seeing All Knowing person that Gimple has shoved down our throat ad nauseum. Straight BS and stupid AF . She has her strengths and fallacies like every TF member, and I liked the idea of an abused woman getting stronger due to her surroundings and the love and support of the TF people . But Carol has done some shady ass selfish sh*it and has bounced on TF too many times all the while judging/ whining to them about THEIR actions. She has become very sanctimonious and thinks her ish doesn't stink and that all of her actions are justified. I get she has her issues with killing, so does Morgan, but she has been so selfish, fake and condescending to TF, Morgan and Zeke that I cannot with her right now. She has been off my favorite list for a long time and shall remain there until she checks the attitude at the door and starts appreciating people and being grateful for what they have done for her. Yes, the bulk of TF have had their selfish/a**hole moments, but Carols moments and attitude have lasted for far too long and she has had the longest time to deal with her traumas with the amount of screen time she has received. She is just so stunted right now as a character with the pretense that she has her ish together and that she is strong. She isn't strong AT ALL right now. One.big.lie.

    In addition, Gimple needs to seriously dial back the #Terminator/RamboCarolisthe baddestnwarriorevah# nonsense. Not doing any favors for her character. Carol is a decent fighter, can blow ish up, pretty handy with a knife, can be stealth, but she is NOT the Savior of Rick and TF and never was. And she could never be leader as some of her fans seem to think she is capable of doing. Leaders don't run away and hide. See the BOSS and leader Rick MFing Grimes. After all of Negans fu*ckery, he never once ran away and stayed protecting TF while receiving heapings of physical and psychological abuse and emasculation . Carol would have NEVER endured Negan and would have bounced on TF/AZ and folded like a deck of cards. No doubt. I hope she gets it together and soon. It's incredibly annoying and mad irritating at this point. I don't hate Carol, I just despise her attitude and how the writing elevates her when she hasn't been shown to actually be as good and competent a fighter/warrior as the writing seems to perpetuate and suggests.
     
    #22 ALDGRichonneLover, Dec 13, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  3. QueenofPeace

    QueenofPeace Guts.
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    Yes, I cannot stand her at all, which is probably why I almost never mention her online because she just irritates me. I literally almost completely tune out of any scene she's in. Perhaps the only other character I hate more is Andrea. If the writers have Carol save the day again against Negan and the Saviors I am so done. I swearrrrrrrr if she gets the glory YET AGAIN or takes some of Ezekiel's shine I am so just over it.

    All of the grating Carol save the day/Carol is a bad ass memes do not help. Some love to act like TF is nothing without her yet conveniently ignore the fact that Carol has had her ass saved multiples times by members of TF too. I ultimately blame the writers, though. They're the ones shoving the Carol is the best thing since sliced bread narrative with the constant over the top moments (machine gun in her sleeve???? REALLY?!?!) or having Rick suddenly back track and strangely support killing Karen and David? Morgan saying she's the most capable fighter is just yet another example of the way TPTB are brainwashing the audience into thinking Carol = MVP
     
  4. ALDGRichonneLover

    ALDGRichonneLover "I wanted it to be ours, me and you"
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    Exactly!! I don't see her strategizing or coming up with plans except for the stupid "lets hide the guns and take over AZ" with Rick and even that wasn't strategy. This was her using Rick's PTSD crazy to further her agend. And she did it undercover because she knew if Michonne got a whiff of her plan with Rick, Michonne would have shut that shi*t DOWN with a quickness! And the whole Sam interactions were just way overboard. You would forget she was a mother with the way she spoke to Sam. I am with you, if Carol gets the glory saving Rick/TF, if the GA even THINKS that she is the savior of TF from Negan, that Rick and TF are incapable of fighting Negan when they did all of the hard work, when her ass was chilling by the fireplace, reading a book, getting food brought to her on the daily and acting like a complete dismissive snot to Morgan and Zeke, while Rick (taken in the RV from hell and almost had to cut his son's hand off), and TF had had to endure the brutal deaths of Glenn/Abe and now Spencer/Olivia, get taken and abused (Daryl), beaten up (Aaron), kidnapped (Eugene) and be under Negans abusive dictatorship, I will lose my EFFING MIND!!!

    Carol was NOT at the prison after the Govenor and his minions blew it up. She wasn't there with Rick/Carl/Michonne with the Claimers, or in the boxcar with TF about to be slaughtered and eaten by the Termites. She didn't know what the fate of TF was and her character has been riding the Terminus high for far too long in my opinion. She wasn't with Glenn, Michonne, Abe, Sasha and Rick trying to get rid of the massive walker herd. She was too busy baking cookies. She fought the Wolves, but so did Tara, Maggie,Rosita, Eugene, Aaron, and Morgan, but she received all of the credit by many people. :michonneeye: Maggies' shine was given to Carol during The Same Boat with Paula when the focus became once again allllll about her. She sneakily left TF before Negan's true fu*kery began after the Savior raid, so she has missed many of the crucial life changing, brutal, fearful and heroic moments with TF, but yet, according to some, she is the only one to save TF from themselves. Okkkkaaaayyyyyy!!! I want to actually like Carol again, but the way Gimple insists on writing her is just doing too much and makes some fans really truly believe that TF survival is completely in her hands which is further from the truth. Surviving the ZA is a Rick/TF effort, it's why we watch the show, and which Gimple has a hard time remembering. Le'ts hope that 7B changes this mindset.
    [​IMG]
     
    #24 ALDGRichonneLover, Dec 13, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  5. slade3

    slade3 The New Mrs. Grimes
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    I'm going to refrain from posting in this thread because I'm trying hard not to be super negative about TWD characters and I feel as if I filled my quota with my Rosita hate this past week and my comments about Daryl's fingers earlier today.

    So, I will only say I'm glad I'm not alone and
    this /\ this /\ this /\ this /\ this /\ !
     
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  6. SweetDee85

    SweetDee85 Richonne Trash
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    There have been many instances where I have been "done" with Carol. Killing Karen and David, manipulating Rick during his crazy arc, saying it was stupid for Michonne to knock Rick out even though Rick said he deserved it because he knew he acting crazy, scaring poor Sam, which ultimately led to his death, teaching the kids to fight without the parent's approval, skipping town, condescending and rude to Ezekiel and Morgan. The list goes on. Like someone said upthread, for as much as people think Carol saves the day all the time, she has been saved plenty of times too by TF.

    Forgive me because I may not remember because I tend to tune out during her scenes, has she ever thanked anyone for them saving her???? I don't think so but if I'm mistaken, please correct me! She doesn't seem to be grateful, she has a one track selfish mind. It seems like her needs are the only ones who matter.

    I am just indifferent at this point with her. I would rather her be killed off than continue with this whole "leave me alone but make sure you're at my beck and call when I call for you" arc. I am over it and Morgan and Ezekiel don't deserve this kind of treatment.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. mrc110

    mrc110 Watchtower Sniper
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  8. ClassicWoman

    ClassicWoman Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    I totally completely wholeheartedly agree. I think Carol is clever...but shes also sneaky, manipulative, and completely untrustworthy.....and this is JUST amongst TF. And worse is she KNOWS better but she gets her way by being sneaky
    ...i still remember when she was teaching the kids about knives at the prison...sneaking...trying to get Carl not to tell Rick, his f-ing father. Like if she really believed in teaching them, she needed to make her case, but instead she goes behind everyone's backs. sneaky conniving WEAK.
     
  9. sharky

    sharky Babysitting Judith

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    I don't hate Carol as much as some here :carol: But I completely get it too.

    She has been awful in S7. Just a waste of running time. And the final nail in the coffin was telling Morgan to tell TF that she was dead. Selfish and completely uncaring. I expected more of a reaction from her after hearing about the saviors.. wouldn't she be concerned about ASZ? At all? No? Ok. I just wish they'd just let her deal with her shit off-screen because the more of we see of her in this state that she's in, the more I'm disliking her.

    That being said, I think having someone like her in TF is important too. I like someone with different values to oppose Rick and his crew but she's still able to co-exist with them. Having someone more cold and calculating than Rick when it comes to survival. She just needs to channel it in a way where it's helpful instead of being destructive. So I hope this shit with her is resolved FAST, and she can fill that role once more. Find a compromise where she will advise behind the scenes but not be on the front lines killing all the time.
     
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  10. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I love Carol, but this current arc is doing her no favors. I understand why she's buckling under the strain of the ZA and having to kill. I am glad we've seen this happen to certain characters (Morgan, Carol) since it's realistic (and different), but to have it go on for so long is just... it does a disservice to not only Carol, who is looking more "weak" (and I truly hate saying that since I don't believe she's weak) and, well, "whiny" (which is kind of true).

    I think what bothers me most about this arc is that Carol has acted like a know-it-all and demanded certain characters kill. It's hypocrisy -- and I really don't like hypocrisy. One thing that comes to mind is that she basically told Rick in "Indifference" that he couldn't just rest back and be a farmer -- but now she herself is doing just that: taking a backseat and not killing. She told Morgan his philosophy was bullshit and condemned him for it in 6A, and now she's doing just what Morgan did. She told Andrea in 3.11 that she should kill the Governor while he slept (which yeah Andrea should've lol) but has done a 180 from that mentality.

    It doesn't bother me so much that Carol is living "in between" worlds at this point (the world of being alone and the world of being with others), because Ezekiel is the one who pleaded with her to do this, but, yeah, her attitude is a bit hard to stomach. I get why, she's depressed, confused, being bristly to protect herself and others from "herself" (since she clearly has some internal self-loathing at the moment, which is tragic), but she knows the group loves her and cares for her. She told Morgan not to tell the group about her because she knows they will come looking. So I do think it's selfish and cruel to withdraw from people like that -- even if I understand why she's doing it. Doesn't make it fun to watch, and it does make Carol just unpleasant at the moment.

    Hopefully Carol bounces back from this sooner than later, because I don't know how much more I can take. I haven't written her off, but I cannot wait for this to be over.
     
  11. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    It's all about balance and that's why Rick and Michonne are my favorite characters. They've suffered trauma and have gone down dark paths of despair but have figured out a way to live with the monster inside of them while still searching for a peaceful and fulfilling life for themselves and their family. That's balance.

    Carol has become a polarizing figure because her character development during the first four seasons was clear. She was an abused, meek housewife who learned how to fight and to survive. Yay Carol! Then she killed Lizzie which, of course, is extremely traumatizing, and that started her down her own dark path which has zig zagged from Rambo cannibal/gun cabal/wolf killer all the way to a hermit who has given up on society. The audience doesn't know what to make of her now and the timing is terrible. Just when the family needs her the most, she's checked out. A very poor writing choice as it's the fast path to turn a favorite/revered character into an annoyance.

    If Gimple is setting up Carol to mirror Comic Michonne, it's very possible that she won't find her balance and will continue to struggle and be miserable. And with the show bleeding viewers due to the misery of Negan's rule, it's a risky creative choice to make. Viewers need TF to be complex, interesting characters, yes, but they also need their favorites to be ones to root for.

    Carol needs to get back to that season 3 balanced character and be at peace with her killer side as well as her hopeful one.
     
  12. grimesthecrime

    grimesthecrime Hiding in Dale's RV

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    Sooo, about me and Carol...

    I think her story started off really interesting and compelling and even relatable in some ways. Even though I don't/never have had kids and I am not married, I was in a relationship with my own type of Ed and I'll leave it at that. She was never my fave, but she was definitely a character I liked to watch and I had no problem considering her in my top 5.

    It wasn't until season 4, when Rick banished her from the group, that I really fell out with her. I agreed with his decision, and I still do very strongly. Probably even more so now after defending it so much. And although I didn't like what she did, I could see how she got there and how she thought those choices were okay even if I didn't. But because her stans, and even people who don't necessarily stan her but just like her character or agreed with her choices, and how they went after Rick SO HARD about the whole thing I couldn't enjoy her as much. Though lowkey I have to thank them for turning me from a casual fan of his to a hardcore stan after arguing with them for so long. Anyways...

    Then came the stuff with Terminus, which I thought was cool. Didn't really bother me at the time. Even the stuff at Alexandria with the wolves didn't bother me. Her and Morgan having opposite views on life and whether or not killing is okay? Cool with me. Even her treatment of Sam, though it was definitely NOT okay, I could see how she got to that point as a character and let it go. Even her going from "I'll kill anyone/thing to survive/killing is the only way" to "I can't anymore" even now made/makes sense to me. I know Im a minority on that one. I know its kind of wishy washy with the "leave me alone, but let me stay on the outskirts of this community so i'm not really there, and come by so I can check up on you but don't ask me about me because I want to get left alone" stuff, but for me, it makes sense.

    So, for me its not necessarily the path her character has gone on that bothers me. Its more like the things that other characters have to suffer with or don't have for the sake of her character. I don't like how Morgan and now Ezekiel are her cheerleaders with NO room for their own development. This goes along with what people have mentioned here about how Morgan says she's the strongest fighter. Its a lie. I think she's gotten some of the best character development, especially when compared to the other female characters. BUT, when I compare the screen time she's gotten and the storylines she's gotten to other female characters, its an unfair conclusion to make. Plus, and this is me being a stan I KNOW, a lot of the Rick hate that never ends comes from people who were mad at him in season 4 and never let it go.

    I see her similarly to how I see Daryl now, though I do still have a bit more compassion for her than I do Daryl. Started off interesting, genuine character development, writers notice the popularity, give them unnecessary boosts to make them even more cool/more liked, use other characters in order to give them more to do/feel bad about/show how cool they are/etc. The only difference is that Carol hasn't stopped developing and her storyline hasn't hit repetitive yet.
     
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  13. Armte

    Armte Schadenfreude is my Aesthetic
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