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Poll Do you think Rosita is responsible for Olivia's death?

Discussion in '7x08: Hearts Still Beating' started by Doctor Grimes, Dec 13, 2016.

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Do you think Rosita is responsible for Olivia's death?

  1. Yes.

    53 vote(s)
    60.2%
  2. No.

    7 vote(s)
    8.0%
  3. Yes and no.

    28 vote(s)
    31.8%
  1. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Since I had a poll about this for Daryl and Glenn, here's one for Rosita and Olivia.

    Do you think Rosita is responsible for Olivia's death?
     
  2. Ship Verse

    Ship Verse I.D.G.A.F.
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    Yes and yes. Had Rosita not shot Negan, Negan would not have given the order to have someone killed, nor would Eugene have been outed. Once again, it was selfish. Intent does not change impact. She also had a clear blueprint on how Negan operates. Why do you think Rick is out getting supplies? Not because he is scared of Negan, but he knows Negan will kill his people if he doesn't. Even her chat with Father G was selfish, at least he will be dead first. Obviously her emotions got the better of her, but it was still a bad call. Say you kill him, you have one bullet, you are surrounded by Saviors, you think the fallout will be them kneeling to you? No likely there will be chaos, and Carl is there, Judy is there, none of the town has weapons, like... so dumb. But anyway, yes it was her fault Olivia died. If it wasn't Olivia, Arat could have shot Carl, Aaron, Tobin or Eric and it will still be her fault. Just because Olivia isnt as beloved as Glenn, it is still her fault.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. ALDGRichonneLover

    ALDGRichonneLover "I wanted it to be ours, me and you"
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    I am just going to have to agree with this. I really like Rosita, she has spunk, is a fighter, loyal, but I am calling it like I called it with DD/Glenn. Her selfish ass actions and impulsive reaction got an innocent person, Olivia killed. I even want to bring in Carl as well, because he just had to go and try to kill Negan on his own, even after everything that went down in the clearing and his actions brought Negan BACK to AZ, knowing that his father was not there to protect everyone. So he gets the heat as well. Do I blame her for Olivia? You bet, but I don't hate her at all. She is just on a time out from me right now. :(

    Rosita berated Eugene and bullied him into making her a bullet, but Eugene was making complete sense. He and Father G called her on her shi*t and she chose to ignore their warnings. I understand that she is feeling lost without Abe, that she has lost someone she cared about even if she and Abe were no longer together. I get that she feels inadequate and wishes it were her instead of Abe, but she is not the only one who lost someone that night. Maggie lost her husband and the father of her child. Rick lost two of his closet friends and important members of TF, Sasha lost Abe and they were just beginning, and so on. I know that Rosita kind of liked weak assed Spencer, but not enough to lose her mind over him and shoot the only bullet she had at Negan and she missed!! And Olivia did not deserve that at all! She was terrified of Negan, but she was brave in her own right and kept her promise to look after Judes and keep her safe. To have her life end in such a manner was just heartbreaking and so unnecessary. But hey, that wasn't Rosita's concern was it? Add to it, if Rosita had taken out Negan, there were still a ton of Saviors with guns who were itching to take Rick and TF out and take over AZ. Look how they beat up Aaron! Judith, Carl, Aaron, Eric, Father G, Tobin, Tara were all still there and would have been dead in two seconds, no doubt about it. And her thinking Negan would kill her instead is laughable. She has witnessed up close and personal with how Negan operates. He leaves his calling card so that the perpetrator stays alive to stew in their own juices psychologically with their actions and repercussions. It's how he gets to Rick, using his love for TF against him. And TF's ace in the hole, Eugene, Mr. Resident Bullet maker was discovered, and was taken as well, so that is two people affected by her actions. It was stupid AF and I hope that she feels some kind of way about Olivia and apologizes like mad to Eugene upon his return, if he ever does.

    Add to it, it is incredibly frustrating to watch Rick do his DAMNDEST in protecting these people, take heapings of abuse and psychological torture FOR THEM and to have them not even give any thought, consideration or respect at all with the things he does to protect them, and throwing all of his efforts and hard work out of the window all so they can play martyr and russian roulette with their lives and everyone else because of their anger and emotions getting the best of them is truly getting on my ever lasting nerves. Rick is in pain as well, but I guess no one besides Michonne and Aaron cares all that much do they? I am hoping that TF have learned some hard lessons, have some growth and reflection and truly get it together for 7B. They have to realize that they cannot win against Negan alone and angry, impulsive, and selfish actions WILL get someone killed. TF all the way! The MSF was a start so we shall see what happens this back half.

    [​IMG]
     
    #3 ALDGRichonneLover, Dec 13, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  4. SweetDee85

    SweetDee85 Richonne Trash
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    Simple answer? Yes
    Do I hate her for it? No
     
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  5. Dobbying

    Dobbying Babysitting Judith

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    Yes and No. Ultimately (and same with Daryl) I don't think it's fair to blame someone for the whims of a sociopath. Rosita tried to get Negan to kill her instead, and was fully willing to take responsibility for her actions. The responsibility is more on Negan/Arat than her.

    In terms of 'she should have known the consequences' I think it's pretty obvious Rosita wasn't thinking straight. I think Father Gabriel's talk changed her mind and then when she lost Spencer, she just saw red and reacted on instinct. It was a very human and understandable move considering her mindset and where her character is at, so I can't blame her for the death.
     
  6. ReeciePiecey

    ReeciePiecey Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    Yes I think so. In fact she is actually more at fault than Daryl for Glenn's death because a precedent has been set which she witnessed (Abe dying for all their actions and then Glenn dying as a result of Daryl's actions) and further she was directly reminded by Eugene that she wouldn't pay the price for her action, that someone else would but she did what she wanted regardless. It was very selfish.

    So in general I would say that intent matters and it wasn't her intent to get someone killed but she is fully aware of the consequences and she did it anyway. Its like drunk driving. Everyone knows the consequence and sometimes people get away with it and no one gets hurt but a lot of times people die and saying I didn't want to get someone killed isn't an excuse at this point.
     
  7. WalkerVoodoo

    WalkerVoodoo Michonne's Shadow
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    Yes and No.

    When I read the spoilers I thought I would blame Rosita as much as I blamed Daryl. However, after watching the episode I don't think the two situations are similar at all. Daryl was acting out and no matter how you twist it, his punching Negan was never gonna achieve anything outside of someone being killed. Rosita on the other hand had a better end goal and had Negan not raised Lucille up at that moment she would have achieved it. Rosita thought she was going to be the only one who died for what she did, and although I do agree she's stupid for thinking that I have to admire how she was ready to die to take Negan out. I can't say I feel the same away about Daryl because a) his end game was stupid and b) he was specifically told that if anyone lashed out Carl was going to lose his second eye. Rosita didn't have thing spelled out for her the same way.
     
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  8. Silas

    Silas Beloved Side Piece
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    She's as guilty as Daryl but I'd still say yes and no. Ultimately her actions caused Olivia's death but no one forced Negan's hand in demanding blood either. Him, Arat, Rosita...all responsible.
     
  9. 21melpomene

    21melpomene Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    Yes, I do blame Rosita for Olivia's death. It's her fault she didn't recall that Negan likes to punish those who lash out against him by punishing someone else and having the original person live with it. She should've known that she wouldn't be the one "paying the price." I actually don't think the assassination idea was a bad idea necessarily, but whipping out the gun in a fit of rage wasn't exactly wise. Then again, in her defense, who the hell would think she'd miss -- she was 10 feet away from him!

    However, I'm not as angry with her as I was/slightly am with Daryl because I didn't love Olivia like I loved Glenn. Olivia's death is unfortunate, though, and it's a burden Rosita will have to bear, as well as that of getting Eugene taken. She wants her actions to matter since she feels she has no other value, I get that. But not this way. She needs to listen to Father Gangster, er, Father Gabriel.
     
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  10. Tisha Grimes

    Tisha Grimes Stay Strong
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    Yes and No. It was really Carl's fault Negan was even there at all.
     
  11. MrsG

    MrsG The New Mrs. Grimes

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    She was the catalyst, but Negan and Arat are responsible. Like Daryl, Rosita's dumb impulse had deadly repercussions. However, also like Daryl, Rosita's actions came from a need to prevent further suffering. :thumbsdown:
     
  12. Cherish

    Cherish Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Just like Daryls' impulsive behavior killed Glenn, Rositas' killed Olivia. Fuck Rosita.
     
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  13. Riko813

    Riko813 Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    Yes Rosita is responsible for Olivia's death and for Eugene being taken.

    1.) She was in the lineup. She saw what Negan did when Daryl jumped up and punched him. Negan killed Glen because of Daryl's action. She was just fortunate that he didn't kill more people because of the severity of her actions. Daryl just hit him, while she almost killed Negan and wounded Lucille. I'm surprised Negan didn't have more people shot because he really loves lucille.

    2.) I know that Eugene is a genius but there was no way of knowing if that bullet was even going to work. Since it was only one bullet there couldn't be any tests run on it. No tests on seeing if Eugene could make a viable bullet. She should have waited and gathered more shell casings and run tests on how these bullets would fire.

    3.) She didn't give a damn about the people around her in the ASZ. She was a selfish little dumb head who was only concerned with her pain, her loss, her feelings, etc. She should have taken notes from Rick on how to be a person who cares about others.
     
  14. ALDGRichonneLover

    ALDGRichonneLover "I wanted it to be ours, me and you"
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    But she didn't need it spelled out. She watched as Negan tortured Rick when he showed up at AZ during Service. How he essentially is like you do what I say, or someone else dies. And it wouldn't be Rick. Rick would have to live with someone dying for not complying with Negans rules. It's why Rick was trying so hard to find the two guns for Negan, swallowing his pride and anger to keep anyone else from dying, that being Olivia. So yes, she knew and was aware. She just sadly didn't care at that moment. Being a martyr is great and all, but if you are dealing with a psychotic man like Negan, he is unpredictable. He punishes through psychological warfare, so he has Arat kill someone else and leaves Rosita with the blood on her hands. It's how he operates.
     
  15. box5angel

    box5angel The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Lickidesplit and Ship Verse like this.
  16. WalkerVoodoo

    WalkerVoodoo Michonne's Shadow
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    I still agree with her. I think it's fine to sacrifice one life or put one life at risk if there's a high chance Negan would die. One person dying to end everything wouldn't be that bad. Daryl wasn't even trying to kill Negan. He just wanted to punch him.
     
  17. ALDGRichonneLover

    ALDGRichonneLover "I wanted it to be ours, me and you"
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    But the point is that one person would not have died and it would most certainly not have ended. If she had taken out Negan, those twisted Saviors that were there with Negan with guns would have most likely killed every member of TF or taken them all back to the Sanctuary and abused them since their leader was dead. Think about these people bowing down to Negan in subseviance. The hardcore men and women with Negan worship Negan, think he is like a God, don't care about TF and they are expendable to them. Look how they treated Aaron, Olivia, Enid. They would have freaked out that their "leader" was dead and slaughtered TF and taken over AZ. Killing Negan is only a part of the Savior issue because for every Savior, there is another Negan waiting to be freed. See Ogg..

    Michonne and Rick both understand that they need the numbers to fight Negan and the Saviors. They cannot do it with the numbers only at AZ or by just killing Negan alone. Hence why they need HT and the Kingdom and whomever allies they can find.
     
  18. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    Yes, she's to blame. I was tough on Daryl and I'll be tough on her.

    A wise woman once said, 'Anger makes you stupid and stupid gets you killed.'

    In this case, Rosita's anger at Negan's predictable psychotic behavior drove her to attempt an assassination with no forethought, no debate about the potential consequences to the innocents around her. She acted on impulse and Olivia died.

    Yes, it was Negan who ordered the hit. Yes, it was Arat who fired the weapon. But, neither would have happened if Rosita had kept the gun holstered.

    Do I loathe her? No, she screwed up, cost someone their life and I hope she learns from it. Just like I hope Daryl learned from his fatal mistake.
     
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  19. ClassicWoman

    ClassicWoman Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    I agree with this so much. I dont think i would have blamed her even a little bit if she had acted out when Abe was killed. And...honestly Spencer wasn't even the catalyst (she didnt care about him), she just wanted to try and kill Abe...fuck the consequences.

    However , i dont think you can tiptoe around a pyschopath..Negan would kill someone because his lemoande was cold. Thats why you have to be smart about taking him out...plan...strategize...unite. In that way Rosita was just being as foolish as the other TF members who thought they can take Negan out on their own.
     
  20. WalkerVoodoo

    WalkerVoodoo Michonne's Shadow
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    If this were the comic universe I'd agree. The TV show Saviors just don't strike me as being loyal to Negan at all. They're a combination of selfish pieces of shit and others who are too scared to rise up. The only reason the Saviours can coexist is because of Negan. Take him out and next thing you know the Saviours might be end up fighting each other. I just don't see them massacring everyone because their piece of shit leader died. They'd probably kill Rosita on reflex and that would be it. They'd still want the rest alive with the hope of continuing the system Negan put in place. Only they wouldn't be as good at their jobs as he was.
     
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