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Poll Do you think Rosita is responsible for Olivia's death?

Discussion in '7x08: Hearts Still Beating' started by Doctor Grimes, Dec 13, 2016.

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Do you think Rosita is responsible for Olivia's death?

  1. Yes.

    53 vote(s)
    60.2%
  2. No.

    7 vote(s)
    8.0%
  3. Yes and no.

    28 vote(s)
    31.8%
  1. Nightmare

    Nightmare FAIRY PRINCESS♚
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    I don't see how its Carl's fault at all. Rosita would have likely still acted when he arrived.
     
  2. Carribean_Queen

    Carribean_Queen Slopping Pigs

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    True but would it have taken place there with Olivia front and centre? I don't like Carl much because he's an idiot who gets away with way too much. He forgets he's a kid... He needs to be accountable for something rather than never addressing all his crap.
     
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  3. Nightmare

    Nightmare FAIRY PRINCESS♚
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    The thing is, we don't know what would have happened. Even if Carl hadn't attacked, we have no idea if Negan would have come or not either way. We saw before he came a day earlier because he "missed" Rick. Negan is unpredictable. What we do know, is that Rosita planned to use that bullet on Negan.
     
  4. Minty

    Minty Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    Yes and no. Yes, because it was her shooting Lucille that made Negan order Arat to kill someone. No, because it was Carl's fault he was in Alexandria in first place and Eugene could have spoken up faster. Now, I'm tired of blaming and being mad at characters for actions like these, that goes for Daryl as well. They are all hurting, they are all traumatized, they are all rightfully mad, Rosita is also suffering from survivor's guilt and she was screaming and kicking for him to punish her. Negan is the one who gave the order and Arat is the one who shot her, so they are the only ones I'm gonna hold responsible for Olivia's death.
     
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  5. Carribean_Queen

    Carribean_Queen Slopping Pigs

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    Good point. However, Carl being at the Sanctuary taunting Negan predicated his early visit. Negan's not stupid harming Carl is like ringing the call to arms for Rick Grimes. Carl talking smack about what they could do may just have those hairs on the back of Negan's neck standing up. Rick is not just any adversary ... Negan had to work to break him and at best his grasp on Rick Grimes is tenuous. Rick is a worthy adversary and Negan knows it.
     
  6. QueenofPeace

    QueenofPeace hearts still beating
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    How have I not seen this thread? I'm one of the few Rosita fans on this forum lol, and I expected a barrage of hate for her when the spoilers revealed what happened. I feel similarly about this situation as I did with the Daryl one. I don't think it's black/white scenario. I mean, you can argue that Rosita firing the gun at Negan caused him to order Arat to choose someone to kill and that happened to be Olivia hence she's 100% responsible. I just don't agree with that. There was a chain of events that led up to that moment, not to mention that Negan is unpredictable. There is no way to decipher what he will decide or do next. I feel like with Negan, he's going to kill people regardless on a whim. Doesn't matter the reason. And it can be anyone. As Rick learned, they all lose no matter what at the end of the day.

    I feel like we saw throughout the episode where Rosita was. She was grieving, feeling useless and alone, angry, depressed, etc. Her chat with Gabriel and her scene with Spencer where they agree to "just dinner" are key moments to explain her headspace. Despite Father Gabriel trying to get her to realize she was very much a part of TF, Rosita was grieving and lonely and wanted revenge for what was done to her and the others. By the end of the chat, FG actually kind of gets through to her a little imo, because she seemed a little brightened when speaking to Spencer about having dinner. I think Rosita was seeing something in Spencer in that moment, possibly that she could give him a real chance and go from there. Maybe she wasn't alone after all.

    Then Spencer goes and gets murdered gruesomely by Negan right in front of her eyes. This is the second time a man who Rosita cares about in some way is killed not only in a gory horrific fashion but in front of her eyes and by the same psycho. Deja vu. A few days apart no less. The camera focuses on Rosita's reaction, because even just the minuscule bit of hope Rosita had formed just right before with her discussion with FG and then with Spencer was destroyed. It was all wiped out in a blink of an eye all over again right in front of her, and she snapped. She basically just lost it and that's why she acted on total impulse, refusing to feel powerless yet again, and lashed out the only way she could in a bid to gain some revenge....by reaching for that gun and trying to kill him. Was it illogical? Completely. Was it selfish? For sure.

    But these characters are flawed and these kinds of mistakes make them human to me. I can't say how I would react in that situation when put through the same exact trauma and horror that she's been through. Like I've said in other threads, Rosita is NOT the only one who was making selfish decisions that day or this season (do I need to start naming characters?). But she completely owned up to her actions, begged to be killed, begged to be taken, etc. so I can't dislike her for what she did. I think she's learned an extremely valuable lesson at the end of the day. I think she will hopefully move forward from here and continue to seek revenge against Negan and the Saviors, but do so more strategically and smartly. I hope she and Sasha team up specifically to do so.
     
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  7. Philly Girl

    Philly Girl Ricktator

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    Yeah, Carl and Rosita share responsibility for poor Olivia's death. I have a question. Why is everybody outside while Negan and the saviors are in Alexandria? My ass would have been in my house in a closet. I wouldn't have gotten picked for shit. Are they that nosey?
     
  8. Philly Girl

    Philly Girl Ricktator

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    I have gotten to like Carl but this was partially his fault. Negan wouldn't have been in Alexandria on that particular day while Olivia was babysitting if not for Carl's dumb stunt. The look on his daddy's face says it all. WTF Carl.
     
  9. Carribean_Queen

    Carribean_Queen Slopping Pigs

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    Exactly, Rick was shocked because he was learning that Carl went off the reservation from Negan... but off course no discussion. If Negan had killed and or hurt him it would have crushed Rick. At least when Michonne found him in the woods she calls his behind on it. If he was my kid ZA or not there would be consequences.
     
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  10. Carribean_Queen

    Carribean_Queen Slopping Pigs

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    ZA's lack of entertainment ... watching Negan and his long arse monologues is the closest thing to Shakespeare in the Park.
     
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  11. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    Right!! I was wondering why the entire town came out while Negan was there. That was weird to me. I too would have been hiding.
     
    #51 Ms.J.Richonne, Jan 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
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  12. QueenOfAlexandria

    QueenOfAlexandria Rick saves everyone, but Michonne saves Rick
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    I say yes and no, because it was a combination of both Carl & Rosita's fault. Carl's the reason Negan ended up at Alexandria in the first place, but Rosita's the reason Olivia got killed. I do love Rosita, so this isn't hate but I'm not gonna let her get away with this just like I didn't let Daryl off the hook for being stupid and impulsive and getting Glenn killed. Sure, Negan's a piece of scum. No one's denying that, and saying he's not responsible for any of this. No one is saying that. However, Rosita's actions lead to Eugene getting taken back to the Sanctuary; that's a fact. If Rosita wouldn't have took the shot and missed, then Negan would have no way of knowing that Eugene even knew how to do something like that in the first place.

    Besides, Rosita saw first-hand what Negan does when you disobey him. Daryl disobeyed him because he was taunting Rosita, so she knows. Negan is responsible, but so is Rosita and Carl. I will commend her for wanting to pay for what she did though, at least she tried her hardest to take responsibility for the bullet not knowing what would have happened to her. I will definitely give her props for taking responsibility because the fandom and these characters have a difficult time placing blame in the right place for some strange reason. Some characters get a lot of unnecessary blame while others get off scot-free; I don't really like that concept, because I think it's asinine. If we, as a fandom, are going to boast about how flawed and three-dimensional these characters are, then we need to start holding them accountable for their actions. Your love for these characters shouldn't blind you to what's really happening. Your love for these characters shouldn't keep you from calling a spade a spade. My fave screwed up; it happened, and she has to deal with the guilt of the consequences. Or at least I hope she will, because I would hate to see her still being defiant and carefree after causing all of that.
     
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  13. Philly Girl

    Philly Girl Ricktator

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    Lol! Shakespeare with guns and potential death. Comparing Negan's wack ass monologues to Shakespere, these dumb ass people really are desperate for entertainment.
     
  14. Philly Girl

    Philly Girl Ricktator

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    You are so right. I have seen this time and time again. Just because you love a character don' t try to sweep it under the rug when they do dumb shit. I like Daryl (yeah, I said it) but he does dumb shit and it is his fault that Glenn got the bat. It was' t intentional and he's sorry (and dumb) if it was possible he'd trade places with Glenn but he can't. I forgive him but I still acknowledge what he did.
     
  15. QueenOfAlexandria

    QueenOfAlexandria Rick saves everyone, but Michonne saves Rick
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    I'm fairly certain Rosita wasn't planning on her plan to backfire in any way, but it did. Her conversation with Father Gabriel tells us that she was willing to die for the cause, but everything doesn't always go as planned. You can plan every meticulous detail you can think of, but there's never a guarantee it's going to happen the way you want it to. Actions have consequences. Rosita was planning on going on a suicide mission, but she didn't expect Negan to punish someone else. Just like with Daryl, I'm certain that wasn't Rosita's intentions either but it still happened. Someone still died, so we can't just ignore that.
     
  16. Dixon

    Dixon Babysitting Judith

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    Sure Carl's plan wasn't exactly well planned, but now two of the group (Carl and Daryl) knows how to get to the Saviors sanctuary. Plus, if no one had intervened, Negan would be dead. Rosita's "plan" wasn't even a plan, so she should not have lost her temper, but who can keep their temper if they are near someone who not only killed someone they loved, but also just killed someone else they cared about. But now the people of Alexandria know what they are up against. So, even though there are now 5 people the saviors killed, but two good things came out of it. well, one if you don't count the people in Alexandria knowing what Negan is.
     
  17. zahira

    zahira Ricktator
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    I think Rosita is as responsible for the death of Oliva as Daryl is responsible for the death of Glenn .
     
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  18. Carribean_Queen

    Carribean_Queen Slopping Pigs

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    Philly Girl his narcissistic arse reminds me of Rowan Pope.
     
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