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Discussion/Meta Does Negan Have to Die?

Discussion in 'Speculation' started by TakemetoRick, Jan 5, 2017.

  1. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    This. That is why I didn't understand Rick's decision in the comic. I get Rick was trying to stop all the killing, but like... Negan was bad. Not just some thief or a dude who killed a man in a drunken bar brawl. Negan is a sadistic murderer. A tyrant.

    Especially with TV Negan. They've gone above and beyond to emphasize how much of a Bad Guy™ Negan is.

    How in the heck are they going to justify sparing his life? Do they think he can be rehabilitated? Is it just a moral thing?

    The only thing I could rationalize is Rick does it as a form of punishment -- that keeping Negan alive would be worse than killing him, because it would be torture for Negan to lose his power and be emasculated in such a way. But then that makes Rick less merciful, in a way.

    ... :denise:
     
  2. thesamurai

    thesamurai The World Is Ours
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    Yes. The GA is not easily going to forget that Negan killed a fan favorite, and traumatically at that.

    Gimple and co. seriously need to stop seeing GA and GN readers as the same audience.
     
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  3. TakemetoRick

    TakemetoRick Caressing Eugene's Mullet

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    I think the idea that sparing Negan's life suggests that one must believe he could be rehabilitated is interesting. I wasn't suggesting that at all. I think Negan's crimes are horrific and he's not redeemable. It's clear that he is a threat and that threat needs to be dealt with in some way. I hear people saying that he should be killed because he needs to be punished and that is the punishment he deserves. Death is certainly a form of punishment and the ultimate deterrent, but OTOH, keeping him alive irrespective of whether or not he could ever be redeemable would be a choice that a society or civilization could make that says something about its values. Morgan has been saying that "all life is precious" for a couple of seasons. People keep focusing their responses on the bad things that Negan has done, but not the purpose behind a decision to keep him alive. The writers seem to be leaning toward the idea that keeping a vicious, sadistic killer alive when you have every reason not to is a purposeful choice that says something about the people who make that choice. It's not as much about Negan as it may seem. But anyway, I respect that people dislike Negan passionately and want him to die.
     
    #43 TakemetoRick, Jan 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  4. TakemetoRick

    TakemetoRick Caressing Eugene's Mullet

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    Another thought I had is that there aren't very many people left in the world. Sure, Negan is the worst of the rotten apples they've come across so far (except for maybe the Termites), but the capability for evil exists inside all men, right? So, you kill Negan and then the next time an evil person comes around, do you kill them too? It feels to me like the show is toying with the idea that sometimes you don't kill your worst enemy.
     
  5. Denie39

    Denie39 Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Good discussion. Getting a good grasp on the varied POVs.
     
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  6. RichonneLvr218

    RichonneLvr218 Counting the days until March 5, 2017
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    Negan absolutely positively has to die. I don't think I've ever seen a character that is so incredibly psychotic. I don't find the character charming or funny, I just find him despicable and dangerous and he has to be killed for this to make any sense. There's no room for negotiation in this. Humanity can't come into play, because Negan isn't human. When they get this man, they have to kill him. PERIOD.
     
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  7. AbsoluteTrash

    AbsoluteTrash Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    The moment the Oceanside story was introduced to me was the moment I knew that Negan HAD TO DIE. He has given the okay for the slaughter of children. There is no coming back from that.

    I find it so weird that the thought of Rick keeping his humanity might entail sparing Negan's life. For a couple of seasons, Rick has had to grapple with the fact that because he didn't pursue things or kill people when he was supposed to, they have come back and destroyed things. I think there was Andrew at the Prison (led to the death of Lori), the Governor (lead to the death of Hershel), Gareth and Co. (Bob's leg). I don't know. When Rick got the universe's message, he over-corrected and went completely brutal and savage (killing cop Bob for running away and treating the Alexandrians like shit when he first got there). Then, upon seeing them stand up and fight, Rick changes his mind about the community and people. He realizes you have to give them a chance at least that is what I got from all of this.

    The writers have really written themselves into a corner here. I just can't see how Rick could possibly leave this guy alive when he is such a known threat to all of the communities he has come across. Furthermore, his group of Saviors includes semi-pedophiles (Enid being inappropriately touched scene). They are also bullies that have no problem killing/harming innocent people (Aaron getting beat up and Olivia). They have shown themselves to be the absolute worst in humanity. Rick doesn't need to give them a chance. They have already exhausted them. And he knows, if they are not appropriately dealt with, they become a danger to the community and to his family.

    This is different than Jesus who mainly wanted to steal supplies. And Rick made a note of the fact that Jesus didn't shoot Daryl during their scuffle even though he had Daryl's gun. SO Rick understood that there was some good in Jesus. That is why he didn't kill him after everything. Jesus was just mostly annoying. That is different than Negan that has killed so many people. Also, even if Rick doesn't think he should die, what about the other communities that Negan has harmed? What about Oceanside?

    The writers are going to have to come up with a way to swing this. I expect RK and production wants Negan to live. They are going have to find a way to get there because as it stands, it would seem way too implausible.
     
  8. Philly Girl

    Philly Girl Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I can't take Negan for 4 years. I just can't. In the immortal words of Tyrese, "I won't".
     
  9. RichonneAlexandria

    RichonneAlexandria Walker Bait

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    You took the words right out of my mouth. After we learned in Swear that he killed all the males of Oceanside (even young boys), there was no chance of redemption for him for me. Him systematically extorting the different communities demonstrates his lack of care for anyone's survival other than his own. He told Rick after the Rosita fiasco that their hole was so big that no matter how many runs and supplies he got from Alexandria it wasn't enough. Negan already saw their food rations were low and knows they have a baby but still doesn't give a fuck. Alexandria doesn't have the same start with growing crops and such like the Hilltop and Kingdom and would fall first to famine if they continue on this way.

    While, I do think stripping Negan of his power and imprisoning him would hurt him more I still think he needs to die and Rick needs to keep his promise "Gareth style".
     
  10. DavieVC

    DavieVC Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    First of all, I would like to start this post by letting everyone know that I enjoyed all of your arguments. Everybody has made a compelling explanation of their positions regarding this topic. You are all amazing!
    _____
    I will make myself echo of the sector of the audience that believes in Negan's demise for the TV show. Because I do not follow the comic books and graphic novels--and have no intention of following them in the future either--, my position regarding this particular character has to do with the TV show exclusively. Based on this realm, there does not seem a compelling reason why Negan should be granted mercy. From all of the villainous characters we have seen, he is at the top of the list. There is nothing redeemable about him. Even if the choice to keep him alive has nothing to do with having or lacking a redeeming state, I cannot see a future civilization pardoning this man's offenses.

    As many have stated throughout this thread, Negan represents the dark side of humanity before and after the zombie apocalypse. This character did not change as a result of the infection that wiped out most of humanity. If anything, the zombie apocalypse allowed him to be himself. He simply enjoys and promotes all types of abuse and violence. He is a social, psychological, physical, economic, political, and cultural torturer. That is his identity. In no way or shape did he spare Carl's life. Negan did not kill Carl because he finds the kid useful to maintain his control over Rick Grimes. At this point, this character is underestimating Rick. If he knew what Team Family and Rick are up to right now, Negan would not have hesitated to kill Carl. Everything he does he does for a reason. Negan is a much better calculator than the Governor or Garreth ever were. The things that he has done and condoned are also far worse than the ones done by the Governor and Garreth, and the latter villains paid their deeds with their lives. Negan's fate should not be any different, with or without a consensus reached by every community involved in the All Out War.

    If an individual or a group of communities decide that Negan needs to die, their humanity would still be intact. Their actions would only serve to prolong their survival. Negan has prevented many communities from truly surviving because they have been sentenced to become slaves. Whatever is found needs to be split in two to benefit one sector only. The death penalty for Negan is a topic that should not be analyzed from our reality. It should be studied from the reality of the humans who are living in the zombie apocalypse. Society as humanity knew it is long gone. There are new social standards now. However, human rights are still true regardless, and Negan only serves to eradicate them. Keeping him alive is the same as giving up those human rights away. If you have the chance to get rid of one evil, why keep it? Such an act would simply represent the tremendous level of masochism humans have in a zombie apocalypse. They would only be waiting for Pandora's box to be full so that the damage to humanity could be irreparable and fatal once opened.

    If there was no redemption, forgiveness, or mercy to Shane, the Governor, the Claimers, the Termites, Pete, and a few Saviors, there should be no redemption, forgiveness, or mercy to Negan either. After everything he has been responsible for, he could only be destined to die. If the writers of the TV show keep him around, it will have nothing to do with making sense out of the story; it will have everything to do with selfishness and plotless objectives. Having Negan survive and imprisoned in Alexandria will make no sense whatsoever after the story arcs that have been presented for each one of the former villains throughout the entire show.

    P.S.: Laurie Holden was expected to play Andrea for eight seasons. However, the writers and the production crew changed their minds and wrote Andrea off. The same can happen to Jeffery Dean Morgan. As another member posted, his arrival to the show did not make the impression the writers, the production crew, and AMC were looking for. If anything, Negan is hurting the show, and I do not want it to end on a low note after rewriting television history as we know it. That would totally suck.
     
    #50 DavieVC, Jan 22, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  11. Buttons&Applesauce

    Buttons&Applesauce Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    Yes, he needs to die. However, I don't think TPTB will kill him off, unless ratings go completely into the tank and it's proven to be because of Negan. :sasha:
     
  12. Mischonne

    Mischonne Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    Yes he must die
     
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  13. Mischonne

    Mischonne Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    I wouldn't be surprised if Morgan built the cell without a lock. Morgan is going to try to prove a point.
     
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  14. Mousey

    Mousey Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    If you asked me before season 6 finale time, I would have said no, he doesn't have to die (nor do I want him to), because Negan is Kirkman's boy and JDM is a monster casting choice so of course they want to use him maximally. But now -- after the S6 blow-up, the S7 premiere blow-up, and the 7A ratings coasting down? :omg:

    I'll be really surprised if Negan does live, honestly. And even though I love and respect Rick for making the choice he did in the comic book, since he went to the lengths of sacrificing the mobility of his leg to keep an evil, cruel man alive to bring him to justice as herald for ushering in an era of peace ... I don't know if that makes for good TV when this show will be closing out season 8 (!!) when that moment comes. It's a choice that is still barely beginning to pay off, narratively, in the comics, so I'd rather the show diverge here. I'd watch forever could it keep going and keep the quality up, but lol, yeah, nah. It's purely practical to kill Negan.

    Not to mention, here's Scott Gimple's moment to shine with making it a socially relevant narrative. Won't get into specifics because I don't want that argument, but yeah. Real life seeping back into this show might actually be the thing to help it end on a high note.
     
  15. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    This is exactly how I feel.
     
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  16. Madness

    Madness Searching for Sophia

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    Yes. If he dosen't I believe the fan backlash might rival the backlash of the season 6 finale cliffhanger and ratings will continue to drop. Just give Simon the jail arc and keep it movin'
     
  17. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I'd prefer Simon to stick around as well.
     
  18. Mischonne

    Mischonne Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    Me too. He seems interesting whereas Negan is just annoying and loud.
     
  19. RixChix

    RixChix Caressing Eugene's Mullet

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    I could get behind the imprisonment of Simon, and the murder of Negan. We need to make t-shirts and get this campaign going.
     
  20. Valerie

    Valerie Professional procrastinator....
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    Yes he does, I don't see another option :denise: