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Discussion/Meta Is Negan's Treatment of Rick's Group Justified? Merciful?

Discussion in 'Negan / Jeffrey Dean Morgan' started by Doctor Grimes, Aug 17, 2016.

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  1. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Note: This may go into 701 spoilers. Please tag them if so.

    Do you believe Negan's treatment of Rick's group is justified -- or even merciful -- under the current circumstances?

    My reason for starting this thread is that Rick's group did attack Negan's people. And killed a lot of them successfully. Given that alone, Negan had the right to strike back with all his might. Who wouldn't do the same?

    And yet... Negan isn't gunning them all down. He isn't playing whack-a-mole with their heads.

    However, that said, it was clear Negan's people were going to kill one of Rick's group regardless and try to put the boot on them. They did it to Hilltop, the library community, and who knows who else.

    Sasha, Abraham, and Daryl were already attacked in the road -- so, technically, the Saviors drew "first blood." Making Rick's preemptive strike on the Saviors justifiable in their eyes. It was also a joint effort to rescue an unjustly captured man (Craig).

    Then again... Negan only promises to kill one of them. ONE. Out of all of Rick's posse -- Negan is taking out just one person to make an example of them. Yes, he's going to undoubtedly hurt them some more (Rick especially so) in order to "break" them, get them to follow his rule...

    ... but couldn't it be much worse?

    I just keep thinking if Rick were in Negan's position. While I don't believe Rick would ever have goons out stalking people on roadways to find their communities and subjugate them to tyranny (so the comparison isn't 100%), if a group did happen to strike at Rick in the same way Rick's people did to Negan, Rick would rain-down unholy fury.

    If the situation were reversed, and Rick's group had the Saviors cowering at their feet, I have no doubt Rick would "kill 'em all."

    With that in mind, Negan's punishment to Rick and his people isn't "all that bad." Yes, they're getting robbed. Yes, they're losing a friend (maybe more than one friend). But the majority of them are walking away with their lives. They still have a home. They still have half their things.

    It's not ideal, but it does make Negan appear magnanimous. To let so many of Rick's people live. Not many villains would do the same.

    It's definitely an interesting situation.
     
  2. Butler36

    Butler36 What?
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    I think, at the end of the day, Negan is about his business and his business is getting people to give him things. So in that instance, yes, Negan took it easy on them in terms of what he is doing. He is an old school mafioso mixed in with a cult leader. So while it is horrible to us because these are people we love, have grown with, etc. To Negan? Just a Tuesday and he needs his shit back. lol
     
  3. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Yeah, this is how I take it as well. In the end, Negan is all about making an empire, and, logically, he can't do that if everyone is dead. So he tables his vengeance and lets those who wronged him "off the hook" in order to get what he wants more than revenge: power.

    Whereas Rick has no desire to build a business enterprise. He has no need for turning human beings into work animals. So, if a group wronged him? He would kill them to protect those he loves. If anything, keeping them around for a selfish purpose (like creating his own fiefdom) is risky.

    In the end, it's Negan's willingness to keep people alive that defeats him in the comic. (Then again, this could be true of Rick eventually as well, so we'll see.)
     
  4. Butler36

    Butler36 What?
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    I mean he calls his group the Saviors for a reason. He believes he is the answer to save them all and he thinks of himself as a benign dictator who is saving these people from themselves (of course to his benefit as well.)

    It's like DG when she said Rick is a good man who has to take leadership while the Governor wanted leadership not to be weak. Negan wants leadership because it boost his ego and makes him feel like a god. He would rather make someone bow than kill them if he can help it, but he does get a perverse pleasure out of doing that too.

    The thing is it isn't personal for Negan. Just business and supplying him what he needs to enjoy the life he's accustomed to.
     
  5. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I think that's why there's an emphasis on Negan not killing one of Rick's people for the loss of his men in actuality. He may say that to keep up appearances with the Saviors ("I'm doing this for you, guys!"), but if not killing any of Rick's people would've proven more strategic to get them to work for him? He would've done it. He didn't actually care about avenging the lives of those who fell under his command.

    Rick, on the other hand, would. Because Rick's emotional investment is in the lives and protection of his people. Not being a god among men.
     
  6. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    I think he is just being pragmatic.

    He is running out of communities to extort for food and supplies. Remember Beth came upon a recently killed group of people with a bat in the middle of their bodies. In the finale he has killed all of the inhabitants of the Library. We know that he is hard up for food which is why he wanted Gregory's head for holding back. We also know that the Kingdom has also been raiding their safe houses and stealing food and guns.
     
  7. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    :negan: "Damn, I am just running out of places to sack to get my freeze-dried tomatoes."
    :rickwtf:: [kills a bunch of Saviors]
    :negan: "I bet he's well-fed."
    :rickwtf:: [kills more Saviors]
    :negan: "I know he's killed a bunch of my guys and all, but, I really need my tomatoes."
     
  8. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    In the world they live in, where the only laws are the ones the communities themselves create and enforce, Negan is completely justified in exerting 'eye for an eye' justice. And he dispenses it perfectly. He's saving face in front of his men with the level of brutality and mental torture he uses and he keeps the body count low to allow for Rick's group to work for him and bring him 'stuff.'

    Negan epitomizes the 'crazy like a fox' leader in that he comes across slightly loony and foolish but underneath he is 10 steps ahead and knows what his victims are thinking and has already put in roadblocks to their mental escape routes. Yes, the use of the bat is horrific and messy but what better way to quickly gain TF's obedience than with mayhem of the highest order? A bullet to the head is what they're all used to. Watching a loved one die by a barbed wire bat?? While the guy killing them is smiling or laughing? Yeah, they'll be bowing and scraping and hunting and gathering like the flock of sheep he needs.
     
  9. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    Rick learned the hard way what happened when you let bad people live. If they had caught up to the Governor, they wouldn't have lost the prison. If they had killed Garrett and Co., Bob wouldn't have lost his limb. Like he mentioned several times throughout season 6, he is not taking chances anymore and being proactive against a group that would have ended up threatening them anyways was the right decision. Unfortunately, it blew up in his face because of the lack of intel
     
  10. Lyra_Nation

    Lyra_Nation Young, scrappy, and hungry
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    I don't really think it's justified or merciful simply because Negan was going to make the same proposition whether Rick and the group killed his men or not. Jesus and The Saviors said they always kill one just to make an example out of him. So if Rick and the group wouldn't have killed any of The Saviors, they were going to get the same treatment either way. Negan was going to put them on their knees and bash one of their heads in whenever they met. At least this way, the group dwindled down Negan's numbers (a little) before they became a part of Negan's crazy little system.

    I guess you can say it's merciful that Negan didn't initially plan to up the death toll due to them killing his men, but...meh...Nah. Lol.
     
  11. Silas

    Silas Beloved Side Piece
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    I think this question is almost impossible to answer. It seems that Negan is justified. Rick & Co took out a lot of his men. It only makes sense that he retaliates in some shape. If you killed an entire bunker of my folks, yeah, I'd feel completely justified in taking out one or a few of your men too. And maybe Negan is being merciful in a sense because he really could kill them all, even though that isn't his style.

    But then I ask does Team Family deserve to lose a member? Does someone in that line up deserve to die for what they did? And my answer is no. They killed people who deserved to die, people who supported the brutal murder of a 16 year old in Hilltop, people who take things that don't belong to them - something TF has never really done.

    So how can it be possible for Negan to murder a member of Team Family and be justified in doing so if the member of TF doesn't deserve it?
     
  12. TexasZAgal

    TexasZAgal Ricktator
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    I will use the example of the Library, these people there were just trying to exist and really had nothing to offer, they were just trying to survive but then Negan shows up and wants half of their stuff but what can they offer him - books are the only thing I can see that they have, yet Negan does what he always does, he kills one of them to make an example and probably takes what little they have. So as a consequence they have to go and find more food and whatever and end up giving half to Negan. It was useless to try to fight Negan but they did anyway and they all got killed in the process. That man with the X was the final one from the Library and they killed him in front of Rick and the others just to show that they could whatever the hell they wanted. These people were harmless and yet Negan killed them because he could. This is the type of person he is. Like he says, he does not want to grow a garden.

    In Negan's mind he is justified in what he is doing, he says that he is doing it to feed his people yet he holds an iron fist over these same people, he leads with fear.

    With or without Rick and TF killing all those Saviors, Negan and his men already knew about Alexandria and it is a miracle they never showed up when Deanna was in charge.
     
  13. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    1. In a way he is replacing who TF took. If he killed as many of TF as they did Saviors he is double out of people to work for him.
    2. I think TF is the most formidable group he has encountered. I think it is partially the challenge of getting such strong opponents to submit.
    3. Of the four captured, I'm pretty sure nobody snitched or turned traitor, that is big. A few of the Hilltop peeps turned and were willing to assassinate their leader. Rick has everyone's loyalty and respect (soon to be tested) and I'm sure it intrigues him how their operation survives. I think he is curious and wants to see their community, not destroy it.
    4. He probably views himself as an Alexander the Great of the ZA. He wants to conquer, not kill everyone.
     
  14. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    It is business as opposed to the Gov who took it all very personally.
     
  15. DixonGrimes

    DixonGrimes Good to see u again baby" Norman R said to ME 10/2
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    I love TF but they shouldn't have did what they did. This whole time the saviors didn't come after asz until after TF attacked the compound. I think the number that Negan killed is generous considering what TF did. IDK I love Negan and I'm here for all his crazy :laugh: lol
     
    QueenTee likes this.
  16. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    I want you to work for me.
    You can't do that if you're dead, now, can you?

    I'm not growing a garden.
    But you killed my people, a whole damn lot of them.
    More than I'm comfortable with.
    And for that, for that you're gonna pay.
    So, now... I'm gonna beat the holy hell outta one of you.


    Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26392
     
  17. Greatm

    Greatm Searching for Sophia

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    I think this is perfectly stated. This sounds exactly like what Negan will be all about, and why he'll be a huge challenge for TF. Because how exactly do you hurt a man who's that smart and also cold enough to have a "comfortable" number of people in his community who can be killed?

    I doubt TF still thinks they're the good guys, but they won't understand that level of disconnetion.

    This really has the potential to be one of their best seasons. Please, TPTB, let it be so :rolleyes:
     
  18. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    This is what I keep going back to. Negan and his men threatened TF first when they encountered Sasha, Abe, and Daryl and planned to kill one of them. TF defended themselves and then retaliated against Negan's group that ended up backfiring.

    Like you said, I suppose Negan is merciful for not going strictly an eye for an eye, but is it really merciful when you're the first one to throw the punch?
     
  19. QueenTee

    QueenTee Ricktator

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    Justified. Rick would've killed everyone associated with Negan if it was the other way around, at least I think. I use Gareth and his group as an example, Rick displayed zero f**ks or mercy. Rick has a heart but he can become a complete savage when his family is messed with. Negan on the other hand seems to be more interested in what he can gain from any given situation, which is why I think he chose to let so many of them live. I believe Negan is more strategic than Rick, so it makes sense.
     
    #19 QueenTee, Aug 18, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  20. Lolololove3

    Lolololove3 Den Mother

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    It's fair. I'll say that rather than merciful because Negan doesn't have mercy. Negan does shit that benefits him and only him. If they couldn't benefit him, he'd of killed them all. No doubt.

    TF didn't have to slaughter his men. The exact same thing would have happened regardless. Negan would have killed someone without them killing his men to get them to work for him.

    Then Daryl would've gotten pissy and Negan would have killed someone else. Still two LVs. Nothing changes.

    Same shit different scenario. Tptb only made TF kill those saviors so that people wouldn't hate Negan too much. They wanted what he's about to do to be justified but it's not because one way or another, the same shit would've happened.