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Discussion/Meta Is Negan's Treatment of Rick's Group Justified? Merciful?

Discussion in 'Negan / Jeffrey Dean Morgan' started by Doctor Grimes, Aug 17, 2016.

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  1. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Negan is a thug, bottom line. It doesn't matter who struck first in the grand scheme of things because regardless if he was gonna take out someone to make his point, the point being underlined is I own you like a slave. Slavery means brutal punishments for minor offesnses of some dictators 'laws', working for someone else's profit, competing with your fellow slaves for favor and small luxuries and never having autonomy. This is why I have trouble framing TF as deserving this considering nobody deserves the Negan treatment.
     
  2. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    One of the best ways is waiting for a leader like that to lose favor with some of his people. Dwight turning coat in the comic was a huge tactical advantage for Rick and co.
     
  3. balladsinthebluegrass

    balladsinthebluegrass Hold to things that are bright.
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    Fewer mouths to feed. :lol:
     
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  4. Lyra_Nation

    Lyra_Nation Young, scrappy, and hungry
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    This is also why Negan isn't merciful though. Negan is only keeping people alive so that they can work for him. It's all for his own gain - not because it's from the good of his heart.

    Rick definitely would have killed all of the Saviors if the situation was reversed. Because he doesn't want or need slaves. He just wants to live in peace. :negan:
     
  5. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    That's why Rick is ultimately triumphant and why I think Negan is
    trying to worm his way into Rick's inner circle in the comic now.
    Rick is well-loved by his people. And love commands more power than fear.
     
  6. balladsinthebluegrass

    balladsinthebluegrass Hold to things that are bright.
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    Negan can feel the love and wants some for himself. :buttermilk:
     
  7. Misty Knight

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    Negan is an angel, of course he's merciful. A merciful angel. :negan:
     
  8. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I'm with those who said Negan didn't really care about the deaths of his men (with the exception of how it might have affected his operation). Further, I think that beyond the psychological torture of the group the barbed bat achieves, there's a second purpose to it. He wants his men to be inured to the violence, and to the losses their own groups had when clashing with him. If they all see (over and over again) that he does this same thing to every group they meet, then it keeps them from considering the brutality of what he did to whatever groups they were originally a part of.
     
  9. Riko813

    Riko813 Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    I don't think mercy had anything to do with it. Yes TF killed a lot of Negan's people but he knows he has a lot more and will acquire more muscle in the future. Negan doesn't care or love any of his people. To him they are a means to an end. So is Rick's group. Negan is a very shrewd and practical man. As he has stated he is not growing a garden. None of his people are farmers, so he needs to get food and supplies in other ways. Rick's group is comprised of individuals who are now experts at survival and are good at finding supplies. They work well together to get the job done. Negan knows it makes more sense to keep this unit in tact and working for him because it maximizes the amount of supplies that will be available for his group. Killing one or two of TF will not affect their food and supplies gathering prowess as a team. Killing more than 3 would diminish their power to make successful supply runs. If they were completely useless, Negan would have murdered all of them. Negan also knows that the Alexandrians are not cut out for supply runs and they are not farmers. Without Rick's group to give them guidance, they would not be able to conduct successful runs.
     
  10. blackjack

    blackjack Babysitting Judith

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    I'm pretty much repeating what everyone else has already said. It's not mercy, not by a long shot. It was made obvious that he would have done this no matter what. He's killing only who he is to put them in line and make them fear him, studio they'll work for him.

    Now, Rick is no longer the good guy and he's proven it repeatedly. What they did was pretty fucked up. I know in order to make that plan work and save Craig, this was probably necessary. However, what he did was kill several people they knew next to nothing about, while they slept. Those men we're no danger to them. They weren't even involved with these dealings until they offered to kill the Saviors for the Hilltop. Whether he saw it as necessary or not, what he did was straight up murder.

    If Negan did what he did because of this act, I'd say he was generous. Again, the Lucille death wasn't for justice or even vengeance. It was business, power, and ego. This is an extortion/protection racket, nothing less. He keeps his people relatively safe and he keeps them fed, but they are a means to an end and the deaths of those men likely mean very little.

    Besides, if he just wanted to get rid of this threat to his people, he would have shot someone or if it was brutal, it would have been done with anger. It was too obvious he was enjoying every second of it. He gets off on controlling others and on the fear he brings. He's a sadistic tyrant with a god complex who sees himself as a savior to his people.
    :negan: He's also the greatest character ever and I'm glad he's finally made his first appearance.:lucille2:
     
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  11. blackjack

    blackjack Babysitting Judith

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    So, not studio. That made no sense.
     
  12. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    What I find interesting is that the psychos, The Gov, Gareth and Negan were able to attract more people to their communities than ASZ and Hilltop.
     
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  13. alsdorkiness

    alsdorkiness Wearing a Necklace of Ears

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    Negan is a morally corrupt tyrant whose only interest is self-aggrandisement. Rick on the otherhand seeks to re-build civilisation. He has the best interests of his family and people at heart. He would never commit murder gratuitously.

    I don't see any justification in Negan's action. It was only a matter of time before he caught up with TF and the Alexandrians and he was going to lucille one of them regardless of whether or not they killed any of his people - that's his MO. Merciful because he's only killing one person as opposed to a whole bunch of them? He won't be shedding a single tear for any of those dead saviours! He doesn't care about his followers - he dominates them. Nope, killing only one of Rick's group is just part of his game plan, not an act of mercy, he needs his worker bees alive and kicking!
     
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  14. DixonGrimes

    DixonGrimes Good to see u again baby" Norman R said to ME 10/2
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    That crazy charm lol.....thanks for bringing that up, I hadn't thought about that before lol its true tho :laugh:
     
  15. DixonGrimes

    DixonGrimes Good to see u again baby" Norman R said to ME 10/2
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    I am conflicted. I feel like I haven't seen enough screen time of Negan to fully form an opinion and I don't read the comics. Sometimes I think my love for JDM gets intertwined into my love for Negan lol which aside from NR, JDM is the only other actor I knew of before TWD. I have some level of respect for Negan as a villain, he rose to some crazy ass power and rather quickly (I hope they show how this happens). Not even the Governor had people kneeling on the ground while he walked by, only Negan has had that. I love powerful people. I loathe weak characters and have no use or time for them. I think for the # that TF killed and the # that Negan kills in comparison, TF is getting off easy compared to if Negan just killed the whole group.

    YB said a powerful statement on the preview special and that we are viewing the compound episode in the eyes of TF and we love TF but if a group of people came into ASZ in the middle of the night and started killing TF in their sleep we wouldn't like those people. Ultimately the saviors never started messing with ASZ until now so under Deannas reign they never came around, which I don't know why. There was that situation on the road but it wasn't planned. I think TF should have never taken the deal with Hilltop. I'm putting on record I do not trust Gregory as far as I can throw him. Hilltop and Kingdom should have stopped the saviors rise to power like years ago. TF should have got themselves a wrecker truck went to the lake and yanked that truck from 6.10 out of the water and called it a day Lol :laugh:
     
  16. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    This is an older thread, but I have to answer...put in my two cents. Negan's treatment is not fair or justified or merciful or acceptable or right or good or understandable, or... The way he treats people is cruel and selfish and loathsome and harsh and mean and inhumane and twisted. Frankly, I don't get it. If I may. The turn happens. Everybody freaks. Horrible things start to happen.. Any person can go a little crazy. Why does Negan respond the way he does to the turn? A faux sense that his method actually keeps people alive.? He capitalizes on what he knows about human behavior? People will do anything to live or keep the people that they love alive? He sees himself as what, benevolent? It is sick and twisted. A person run amok. A rabid dog. What gives him the authority to threaten, hurt, kill, rape people? He is stronger, more willing, more powerful? Whatever that means in that world.. You may as well say: " He is white, or male, or taller or crazier." He has zero authority or right over anyone! Trying to convince someone that you have the right to mistreat them because you are who you are and they are who they are is wicked and weak. It has no place in human interactions. In simple terms, a person is his own. Not someone else's. He said that Rick was "special". I know why. He is scared sh*tless. The cracks began to show. All/most of that mess in the clearing was for his people. Overkill. If he/they(Rick and TF) could do what they did and still live like people?...his theory would be exposed for what it is, large amouts of bullsh*t. That kind of system is unsustainable. People resist oppression. The Saviors shot at Daryl, Abe, and Sasha when they were executing the quarry plan. It was inadvertent (?), but they had intentions of harming them as soon as that contact was made. Negan has no interest in seeing society rebuild. He is a madman or evil. Neither of which are sound. Does he think he is going to live forever? Does he have that much faith in his influence or force of personality? Is that the reason for the name "savior"? (That kinda makes me want to vomit.) He is deluded, if he thinks he can be that. Affect the world in that way? Please. He is a maniac, just like Carol said. Rick did absolutely the right thing. Trying to eliminate not only the threat to them physically, but that distorted, warped, twisted thinking/worldview was/is just as important/crucial, if not more so. Negan is not justified or merciful. He is tyrannical and a wee bit crazy (understatement, 'cause he is batshit). Good thing that Rick is here to show him the error of his ways.
     
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  17. blackjack

    blackjack Babysitting Judith

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    I was rereading this thread. I'm wondering if, at this point, there are still any people who question Negan as a true villain. Is there anyone who still justifies/defends him? Do you feel that letting them live was kinder (not sure what other word to use) than killing them? They were still able to go back to their families. People still defend him, in the comics, and he's really not much better. No judgement here, just curious.:negan:

    Also, I know this is old, but I've noticed a lot of people who took the garden thing wrong. It was a joke. "You can't work for me if your dead, now can you? I'm not growing a garden." The only work he could get from them, if dead, would be as fertilizer.
     
  18. ReeciePiecey

    ReeciePiecey Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    I don't think I posted in here originally but no I don't think Negan is justified and I don't think the family deserves what they are experiencing. In fact, now that we are seeing how Negan's crew treats others and the morality of the characters in his crew I feel more accepting towards the family for their original strike against the Saviors. They had the right idea but executed it poorly.

    I think we have seen so far that the people who make up Negan's crew are a combination of pretty bad people who like the power and freedom they gain with Negan or those who are trying to survive by any means necessary, knowing full well that, that means at the expense of other people (Dwight & Sherry). They are too afraid to stand by morals and escape or survive on their own. They have accepted this whole survival of the strongest mentality. When you live a life like that, a consequence is the retaliation of the people you oppressive.

    Negan himself does not care about his followers at all. He cares about his image, his power, his entertainment and production. He isn't a man that cares about thinks like justice or morality he has purposefully eliminated those things from his world. He isn't striking back because he was hurt to lose his loyal men, he could care less, they were tools to him and he has many more. He wants to own the people strong enough to carry out that type of mission. That would increase his image, his power and production and breaking them will provide him some entertainment in the ZA.