1. Welcome to Tell It to the Dead. We're a discussion forum for AMC's The Walking Dead. Please don't hesitate to ping staff with any questions or concerns. Have fun and watch out for walkers!
    Dismiss Notice

Discussion/Meta Is this who I think it is?

Discussion in '7x05: Go Getters' started by Barbarossa-TWD, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Benedict Arnold


    This is interesting because it is just above Gregory's Chair but it is Simon who is pictured directly below it.


    Even if this is NOT BA I'm pretty sure that it was Negan's truck that Rick and Daryl found in S6.10.
    Let's see if S7.E.5 "Negan's truck" actually gets to the sanctuary. Because I am getting the feeling that all is not what it seems to be in Sanctuary Town.

    I originally thought that Jesus and Gregory came up short on their delivery to the satellite compound. But now I am beginning to have my doubts.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Trucks in S7.E4
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I dunno but it sure looks like someone was hiding one of Negan's trucks.

    S7.E5
    Simon: Take this to the Negan truck, okay?
     
  2. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    1,899
    Walker Pets:
    93
    I get strange vibes, too. The truck was hidden by other Saviors, Simon? That guy is so good, I feel like he has a lot more to him, more on the ball than meets the eye. And, yeah, the Sanctuary is not "running smoothly". How could it? People resist oppression. It is like slavery there, people find away to resist. And Sasha said " everything feels wrong". I agree. It all just seemed off. (Good episode, storytelling...that seems to be what the creatives are going for, a feeling of contradiction-Ezekeil's take on things .) They are giving the audience this uncomfortable feeling of dissonance, nothing jives? I love that type of storytelling/narrative. I get all litnerd when I start to feel that, lol. Help me out if I am missing the point. I love to take notes, lol.
     
    epiath, Denie39, lovemyguys and 5 others like this.
  3. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113
    They sprinkle so many clues about that I never really sure if it is the right track.
    However, we got this odd passage in the middle of Negan's terror, which shows how dependent Negan is on Simon. We still haven't got a scene alone with Negan and Simon and it will be interesting to see if it is a relationship like Negan has with Dwight or something else.

    S7.E1
    Negan: Simon's my right-hand man.
    Having one of those is important.
    I mean, what do you have left without them?
    A whole lot of work.
    Then in last night's episode you get this very weird identity change that Simon starts doing. It's like those street hustler's with the quarter hidden under one of three cups and they mix them up so fast and you have to guess which cup is actually hiding the quarter. That is the best way I can explain Simon at the Hilltop:

    S7.E5
    Simon: Because, for now, I'm your Negan.
    'Cause that's what Negan wants.
    Which Negan would love this, the real Negan or the "New" Negan which is Simon.

    Simon: Negan'll love this.
    Now, I'm gonna say it's from me, not mention you, okay?
    I really want the headline on this one. Okay?

    Then Simon says something that makes absolutely no sense, how is he going to tell the Real Negan that the scotch came from him? Of course it had to come from someone else. Or is Simon saying that he will tell the "New Negan" that it came from Simon.


    Then as "New Negan leaves the next thing spoken Carl basically outs Simon

    Carl: I don't think Negan's here. I don't see that black truck.
     
    #3 Barbarossa-TWD, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
    Marcie69, slade3 and Katbird like this.
  4. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,526
    Likes Received:
    49,446
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    Huh. So maybe Simon is running his own operation maybe? Something suspicious is going on here.
     
  5. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    1,899
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Wow, had to read your post(s) a few times. Very insightful. Agree that the word choice is critical. Always subtle but going for the biggest affect and effect on/of the words. And, you must be in my head, lol. That line about the "right hand man" and a "whole lot of work" means a lot more than it would appear. I used the same analogy, for a co-worker, describing how the Negan system worked: three-card Monty, a shell game--distraction, subterfuge, illusion. Distracting talking--Negan all over. Subterfuge--what is going on, really? What goes on out of Negan's sight? (He says over and over he is everywhere.) How does/can this work? Simon has a system within the system? Illusion--"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." I said right away: "Most of that in the clearing was for the Saviors, posturing, keeping the system in place. I won't go into my thoughts about the type of system this is, maybe someone will create a thread, haha. Anyywaay, I see what you mean by "New Negan". Who is really in charge, not in control, in charge, running things? I love it!! No connective tissue of a novel but, they all ready asked: "Who's the boss?" That was about Daryl, but not just Daryl-- also, the system and its workings.
    Simon, wow, just wow. No wonder they needed a superior actor. I think they are asking something big of that character/role. They needed someone with the heft/gravitas to pull it off.
    I hope they tell us through the story who the potriat is. George Washington's portrait is there, also. I hope they wouldn't show his (GW) image in a subordinate position to Benedict Arnold. The creatives wouldn't do that, would they? I'm going to ease down, I'm getting carried away. Right on cue.
     
    Denie39, Marcie69 and slade3 like this.
  6. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Now you got may juices flowing. In the last episode we were told that they don't keep records and had no idea what guns were taken from the the Satellite compound which is why they didn't know about Michonne's rifle.

    Also in the S6.E11 Same Boat the hostage takers were complaining that some one had taken all of the supplies and guns out of the safe house.

    Totally, Negan keeps saying how many Saviors TF killed which is about 40-50. That had to raise a few eyebrows at the Sanctuary it definitely must have punch a hole in Negan's invincibility. And most importantly that there are other ways to survive. I also think that is why they killed everyone in the Library they are over reacting.

    I know BA sitting right there between Martha and George. Also, they kept POINTING out a painting in the room yes, they took the other one but they were really trying to say HEY GA LOOK AT THE PAINTINGS hint hint nudge nudge.
     
    Marcie69 and Katbird like this.
  7. Katana

    Katana Searching for Sophia

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    61
    Walker Pets:
    18
    People keep complaining that this season isn't good, it's boring ect ect. They are not catching the lil things like this.
     
  8. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113
    I know but still not one Youtube recapper/reviewer has mentioned this. Even after Gimple basically shouted "Look at the paintings!!!". It had to mean something so large nestled between George and Martha Washington. Yes, it did take about ten mins. to figure out who it was, but after a few guesses on Google it was easy.

    ETA:

    Simon: Let's talk in your study. I wanna see that painting. Can't remember who told me about it, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter much anymore.

    Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29864
     
    #8 Barbarossa-TWD, Nov 21, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    ALDGRichonneLover and Katbird like this.
  9. Katana

    Katana Searching for Sophia

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    61
    Walker Pets:
    18
    Very nice catch, eye.
    I watched on my phone, it's hard to catch these things. Have to watch again on larger screen.

    P. S... You have to keep this thread updated if you catch anything else that goes along with this in upcoming episodes.
     
  10. Mousey

    Mousey Awaiting Job from Deanna
    Patron

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    679
    Likes Received:
    2,721
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Location:
    North Carolina
    It would be a capital-c Crazy twist if they make Simon a double-agent, since he seems so into the gospel of Negan. It's far from impossible though and this does make a really good case for at least somebody shaving off the top, hmm...

    I kind of hope it happens this way. :gareth:
     
  11. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113
    There is actually a lot is happening and being fore shadowed in this episode:
    • Burning bodies- Remember Maggie burnt Glenn's picture of herself. It's about letting the old world disappear and creating a new world in the image of the moment. A Phoenix must rise from the ashes of the old self. We keep getting these images of fire and death when the Saviors burn logs S7.E1 and S7.E5 to attack the dead.
    • Maggie gives away Glenn's watch - Sasha holds onto Abe's cigar. Which is the right way forwards?
    • On going theme of Who's the Boss: ASZ/Spencer questions Rick's authority; Hilltop/Jesus questions Gregory's authority; Kingdom/Richard questions Ezekiel's authority (Sanctuary/Are we going to see someone question Negan's authority)
    • What's in the grave? Enid's mix up, once again we are directed to question what is in the grave? Perhaps foreshadowing that there is more to the grave at ASZ.
    • Stepping up - Aaron and Jesus both outsiders in their own communities stepping up and pledging themselves 100%. This was part of Aaron "on the line" vignette
     
    #11 Barbarossa-TWD, Nov 22, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  12. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113
    I agree because everyone is looking for Dwight to be the turncoat, it would be a great twist.
     
  13. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    1,899
    Walker Pets:
    93
    There are people, big fans, they claim, who still think this show is about the walkers. Thank goodness for a forum that explores the other aspects of this story. This reset is huge. I was all bummed about losing Glenn, loved Abe, of course, but, Glenn...it hurt my feelings, bad. I knew they , the creatives, were setting up to wind the story down, but was still hoping he could/would stay. Now, I begin to see why...new direction, new goal of the story. Not surviving, but living. Doing what human beings always do, adapt or die. Find a way to go on. And, go on as human beings, not monsters, hollow men. To listen to the narrative with that in mind is key. Every bit of this last episode was needed. For me the human aspect takes center stage: The order, Rick going out with Aaron to make a way for his people, Michonne representing home and hearth, Carl standing as the rebellious spirit that must be tapped to fight oppression, Maggie and Sasha embodying the spread of the Rick Grimes way--the way that pushes out inhumanity; that way: the true way forward, JESUS CONVERTED, being convinced to try this better way, rather than the way of weakness...that. is. huge. (If I start on Simon, this post will be ten paragraphs long...I'm not kidding, lol.) I could go on and on and on. If I haven't said it all ready...this show is not about the "zombies". Not the obvious ones, anyway.
     
    #13 Katbird, Nov 22, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  14. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113

    YEEEEAAAAASSSSS!!!!!!!!!

    You are so right, this show is so BIG!!! and so many people still think it is about the zombies and who will die next.

    I am so tempted to start a you tube channel but I am technically challenged. I was so dishearten watching the Afterbuzz feature on 7.4 and none of the 4 panelist understood what Gregory meant he said:

    Gregory: Please, tell Negan I understand the benefits in, uh...crossing the aisle.
    Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29864
    (Which is a political term when the Dems and GOP cross the aisle and meet together to pass a bill. But basically it means opposing sides coming together for a common cause)

    I think it was only New Rockstars that picked up on the pomegranate mythology, Emergency Awesome kept calling it an apple.

    NO ONE HAS PICKED UP ON THE CHESSBOARD ANALOGY!!!

    I am not saying that all the theories that are hashed out here are correct but the absolute lack of any analysation is really sad just recaps and reaction vids.
     
  15. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    1,899
    Walker Pets:
    93
    See, this is why I am a fan of TWD, and this forum. You have to get that YouTube channel up and running, but I feel you on the tech challenges... I don't even know how to get the poster's name to appear in read type! How challenged is that?!? I will wait until you post your thoughts on that situation/conversation with Gregory and Simon. It was long for a reason. Those types of drawn out conversations/dialogue is to establish setting and time, at least in books/novels. We, the reader/audience, should feel like we are drawn into that world, that we can sense, on a personal level, what the characters mean/are, what the writer(s) are trying to tell us about where and how the characters live/exist. In that "talking" these two characters are restating: "things are not what they seem...you, reader/watcher, are wise to second guess, feel uneasy about what you are experiencng/sensing." I wondered about every word/gesture/look from Simon!
    P.S. People missed the pomegranate thing? OMGee! Now, they just did not pay attention at all in high school, jr. high, even. I mean, really? Really, really? If you write for a living, I assume you took a literature class or two or ten. You had to encounter that myth at least once. Good grief!
     
  16. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Well @Katbird I just figure this out I think last week. If you type the @ symbol then start typing the name a list pops up with members names.

    The thing is you have to be curious. Why are they showing us a pomegranate of all fruits? That is not very common, why not an banana? What could it mean? Google: pomegranate symbolism. (OMG Afterbuzz didn't even get the Adam and Eve apple symbolism with Rick and Michonne. I stopped watching them after that.)

    As for Simon and Gregory (no wonder they became such good friends IRL they killed their scenes together) again so many things that were said just didn't make sense. And sometimes we may not get an answer for 1 or 2 seasons... like that damn truck that Rick and Daryl found... that has been lodged in my brain since it happened...because it didn't make sense. Why is it there? Whose is it? What I like about Gimple is that even these dangling easter eggs do not distract from their immediate plot. Like the truck it completed the story with R&D and we got to meet Jesus... but still we don't know how or why it was there. There was no logical conclusion

    Yeah and I hated English lit. because the teachers I had kept banging on about symbolism and stuff and thangs. Gimple plies on the symbolism and clues. Sometimes they are just literal. There are plenty of symbols splashed about. I didn't know that was Benedict Arnold but being larger than George and Martha Washington I knew it had to be important. I first went through the "cast" Hamilton :cat: Then I was like okay this is over Gregory's chair ... who in history is most like Gregory :lucille2: bingo.
     
  17. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    825
    Likes Received:
    1,899
    Walker Pets:
    93
    @Barbarossa-TWD , I think I got it to work. Thank you. I agree about being curious. Inquiring minds want to know. And, the connecting of the connects-the-dots sometimes takes a while. I say repeatedly: Writers begin with the end in mind. But, I love the oh-now-I-get-it!-moments. So fun. Thanks again for the tutorial with the tech stuff. I really appreciate it.
     
    Barbarossa-TWD likes this.
  18. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,945
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Oh I forgot the clincher. Simon made Gregory kneel before him.
    Now if that doesn't say that he is trying to usurp Negan position then I don't know what does.
     
    Katbird likes this.
  19. MsAntiSocial

    MsAntiSocial Watchtower Sniper

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    566
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    I had to stop listening to Afterbuzz because none of their host ever want to look deeper into the meaning of anything. You are better putting them on as background noise.
     
    Katbird and Barbarossa-TWD like this.
  20. epiath

    epiath Ricktator

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2016
    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    3,469
    Walker Pets:
    113
    You know some people don't like to think and make connections. It is just shoot, cut, guts, gore for them.