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Spoilers Lucille is Thirsty

Discussion in 'Speculation Archive' started by MamaGrimes, Jan 27, 2016.

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  1. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    Agreed. Alpert pretty much put it out there that Glenn had his 'death' and was reborn as a new version of himself. Why would he say that if they going to give him his comic death? And this nu!Glenn had his first human kills which is a huge deal. I, for one, believe they can mine a great deal out of this development. We can experience a man learning to embrace his inner monster and basically follow in Rick's footsteps (without the inner cray of course).

    Glenn lives. Has a nice ring to it.
     
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  2. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I will proudly say I was one of the few who never bought Morcille even when everyone was saying otherwise. :yay:
     
  3. Mousey

    Mousey Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    LOL, I can vouch - you definitely weren't swayed by the furor. The rest of the fandom definitely bought it for a while, at least until the mid-point, either because they wanted him to die or because they were terrified by the thought (that was why I ever entertained it, because The Revolving Door of Black Men, plus the obvious in-narrative signs).

    I think the fight with Carol was the turning point for many Morcille shippers. Even if they still wanted him to die because of his actions, it was so obvious an act that he needed to come back from, and 8 episodes weren't enough to remedy that damage.
     
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  4. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I remember getting into debates with meesha1971 about Morgan getting Lucille'd. I was adamant it would be Daryl, Glenn, or Abe and she was 100% sure it would be Morgan. :lol: Good times.
     
  5. Gooey Goobert

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    To be honest, I was on the Morchille ship for a bit. Moral compass + black man is a deathly combo. I still worry for Morgan's life expectancy on this show.
     
  6. Mousey

    Mousey Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Yeesss, omg. Funniest part is that she loves Morgan too, so I just don't even know.:lucille:
     
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  7. LunaFall

    LunaFall Nabila went all Hershel on us
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    It'd still be a cop-out - just like Abe (though I do consider him "the safe choice") and Aaron are - especially Aaron.

    tbh, a lot of the people that wanted Morgan dead were people that were so used to following Rick and his group's way that any new perspective was shunned/ridiculed or they were pissed that Morgan body slammed Carol. To this day, I still hate that fucking fight and it played out exactly how I said it would on another site :Morgan was going to be marked forever and if people didn't want him dead before, they would want him dead after that scene (even though the writers had both of them acting stupid).

    Once I gained a little perspective on Morgan's story, I knew he wasn't dying - at least not in S6. Whether or not he makes it past AOW, I can't say for sure.
     
  8. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I wrote a meta about this. I need help.


    I had forgotten until today about this interesting post-6x03 interview with David Alpert where he talks about Glenn's death/fake death. At the time of this interview, it wasn't known whether Glenn was "officially" alive or dead. But it has some gems in it.

    Alpert indicates that Glenn's season 1-6 arc ended with Glenn's dumpster dive. He literally says, "He’s the guy who’s never killed anybody in cold blood. He’s always been that guy. So the moment last night — regardless of what’s happened to Glenn — the Glenn as good angel, I believe, is dead." Indicating that, in a way, the Glenn we knew this whole time is no more.

    What constituted the ending of Glenn's season 1-6 arc? I broke it down into points:
    * A dialogue callback.
    Alpert uses Glenn calling Rick "dumbass" as an auditory cue that Glenn was nearing the end of his old arc. ".. the same thing that Glenn had said to Rick when he was in the tank in the first episode"; "That beat is a direct and intentional call back to the beginning."
    * It's a resolution of everything the character has been trying to accomplish.
    Alpert indicates that there is some sense of closure and wholeness that happens with an arc ending; in this case, it was Glenn having spared Nicholas (a hallmark of the old Glenn) only for that to punish him (Glenn being thrown off the dumpster).

    Glenn's fake death was representative of many elements of his first meeting with Rick. He crawled under a dumpster to hide from a swarm of zombies a la Rick and the tank (who he saved from that tank). Glenn went full-circle by having another man he saved (Nicholas) almost spell his end (throw him into a herd). This has changed Glenn's character path. In a way, it's like that dumpster was more representative of a cocoon and Glenn was in a state of hibernation until he emerged a new man. A rebirth.

    To me, a lot of this could support the idea that Glenn is safe from Lucille. If the Glenn we knew and love died under that dumpster as Gimple and Alpert are alluding, then what we have is a totally new character (by comparison) who has yet to spread his wings. A darker version of comic Glenn. A man who has blood on his hands. A man who has killed.


    So I applied this schema to Abraham and Daryl. How they began, where they ended up.

    Abraham: When we meet him he is a rigid soldier on a mission to D.C. We're already getting visual echoes reminding us of Abraham's soldier roots. He put on a uniform, has applied military schema to the Saviors. He's gearing up for combat.

    In a sense, I think this means Abraham *isn't* done. He has yet to actually go back to the war. He knows it's coming. Also, what fun is having a soldier if they don't get to go to the front lines? Apply "full circle" to Abraham would mean he has to die in battle -- or at least be on some sort of mission.

    Daryl: When we meet Daryl, he's literally hunting in the woods. Tracks down a deer he shot that has been eaten by a walker. He walks in his brother's shadow.

    Recently, it could be argued Daryl is doing just that. He followed in his brother's footsteps with an auditory callback to "This Sorrowful Life" ("just come back" / "I can't"). He was hunting for Dwight (reminding us of his roots), had gone back to not trusting people (as he was in the beginning), and it was all over the death of a blonde (Sophia/Denise). Only this time, the hunter became the hunted. A cruel inversion. Dwight (also an established hunter as we were told in 6x06) caught Daryl.

    Dwight was also a man Daryl saved (in Glenn-like fashion) to later punish him (shoot him). Daryl even says to Dwight, "I should've killed you," to which Dwight blithely replies, "Yeah, you probably should've."

    The thematic echoes could mean Daryl is closing out his arc as he has gone back to the beginning. We got visual echoes (hunting), auditory echoes (dialogue from "This Sorrowful Life"), and even an ominous declaration (Glenn saying that Daryl would get himself killed).
     
  9. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    This also goes with the theme that you must continue to change or you die. Beth warned Daryl that if he became "who he was" it would kill him.

    Glenn was lucky in that his merciful antics (sparing people like Nicholas) didn't get him killed. Now Glenn has learned from his mistakes and is changing -- which will keep him alive.

    Daryl, on the other hand, backslid. He's regressed into old habits. In this world, that spells death.
     
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  10. MamaGrimes

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    Excellent post @Doctor Grimes!

    A few things to add....in 6.1, Glenn made told Nicholas "I should be delivering pizzas man." A direct reference to his past life, a reminder to the viewers of Glenn's beginnings...two episodes before his 1-6 character 'dies.'

    I believe there is a ton of story left in Glenn now that he has killed. What is it like to be a moral man, a former innocent who has just learned to kill people? Will Glenn be a viable soldier in Rick's army? Will he be conflicted or at peace with the monster inside of him? Will he do whatever it takes to protect his family? THAT's the story I want to see.

    Also, in reference to Abe recognizing the Savior's organization, here is what he says in 6.6:

    "You see I know this group...and I know Rick...and whatever happened back there is being managed and kicked right up into its own ass one way or another I know that."

    Abe said that to Sasha after returning with the rpg. He's calling out Negan's organized group...a soldier recognizing a viable enemy soldier.
     
  11. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    And just like with Glenn mentioning his pizza delivery two episodes before his "death", Daryl talked about Merle with Denise two episodes before the finale.
     
  12. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
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    I think it's time you came to terms with the fact that your problem is terminal, dear. But we're usually all the better for it...except when you have to go to the time out cave.

    I've always thought it was ludicrous and pointless to bash in Glenn's spirit(killing people) before they bashed in his skull. Why bother tarnishing him, which takes away that "innocent lamb" angle from the comics, before you off him? Because they're not going to kill him entirely, just one facet of his being. The Glenn of before wouldn't be able to take on what's coming so he had to go, and now we're going to finally get to see the new Glenn that was reborn from the under the dumpster in S7. Ok that last bit sounded corny.
     
  13. MamaGrimes

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    [​IMG]
    It's all adding up Doc.....
     
  14. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    That sounded corney? Gurl, I called the dumpster a cocoon. :|
     
  15. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    From Kirkman's Letter Hacks in Issue #100.

    [​IMG]

    From Kirkman's Letter Hacks in the recent issue (#154)

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Clutterbuck

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    [​IMG]
    The speculating isn't fun when it's all you've been doing in the run up to your stupid cliffhanger. ALso this reminds me I'm 2 issues behind.
     
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  18. zahira

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  19. SweetDee85

    SweetDee85 Richonne Trash
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    image.jpeg
     
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  20. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Some spoilery speculation and musings under the cut.

    If the spoiler is true that Rick and Negan go on a "road trip" of sorts in 7.01, that could swing the lens back at Daryl as the Lucille Victim. The last person who went on a trip with Rick was Daryl. In addition, they're going to the "X" man location, and the "X" man has always been a breadcrumb pointing to Daryl's death IMHO. Furthermore, the log burning could be a nod to Daryl as well since he's commonly the character associated with fire. If the rest of the spoiler scene is accurate in that Rick and Negan are confronted with walkers, it also makes me think of Daryl as Daryl is someone who has saved Rick's life from walkers many times.

    ... that is if this scene has anything to do with who the LV is -- even on an implicit level.

    However, Rocket Dog also made note that Negan is the "anti-Rick". Like Rick from a Star Trek-esque mirror universe. If they're going with parallels in the next season, then Dwight could effectively be the "anti-Daryl". They may establish various characters to have dark AU mirror foils (like Chelle for Maggie; Paula for Carol). Which lends towards Daryl's survival if they want to stretch that dichotomy further.

    The fact so much emphasis is being placed on Rick's torture also swings the pendulum in two ways.

    On one hand: it could mean the LV isn't enough of a shocker on its own, so Rick getting brutalized is a way to "make up" for the lack of "oomf" behind the kill. In which case, the victim could be anyone who is considered a "cop-out" (Aaron, Eugene) or even just someone who isn't Atlanta 5 (like Abraham or Sasha).

    Oooooor.... it could mean that the LV is someone very close to Rick, so focusing on how this death effects Rick is their way of paying homage to the dead character. In which case, the most likely victims are Michonne or Daryl.

    As a side-note: another nod that the victim could be Abraham is that all the people close to Abe are there. Rosita and Eugene being witnesses is fascinating since they were two of the original surviving members of Abraham's group. Why else would they be there except to watch their friend die? Abraham's death has the potential to set up other characters for more growth.
     
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