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Discussion/Meta Maggie: Should she have been out there? Yes or No?

Discussion in '6x12: Not Tomorrow Yet' started by Doctor Grimes, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Not to me it doesn't. All that scene showed me was that Rick was smart enough and respectful enough towards both Maggie and Glenn to allow them to make their own decisions about their family. Rick is the leader of the group, not their father.

    Carol had a right to be concern but she was wrong in how she displayed it. She acted like Maggie was a kid, and not a grown adult.
     
  2. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    @Silas you always break things down so well and I almost always agree 100% or at least somewhat. Yes. This. I was trying to say the same thing, but couldn't express myself quite as eloquently.

    Carol meant well, but was coming across as pushy, but it is a result of Tobin's words getting into her head, and her trying to assert her concern onto the group. Once again shouldering that burden of responsibility for their safety.

    It's like what MMB said about it: Carol was thinking back to being a mother herself as well, and wanted Maggie to reflect a little more deeply about protecting her child.

    I agree Maggie should've hung back, but at the same time I appreciate she wants to still prove her worth to the group by going out there even though she's pregnant. As I said before, it's a fine line. I hate women to be considered infirm/disabled due to pregnancy, but when it's not necessary, she could defer her role in the mission to someone else.

    Ultimately, I don't judge Maggie one way or the other. It was her decision. She's an adult. She did fall back to the perimeter (the least risky job). And Glenn didn't seem to have a problem with it -- and I am sure Glenn and Maggie discussed it prior to the mission.

    Carol was being pushy, but she meant well. So I was irritated, but I ain't hating. I know she wasn't trying to make Maggie feel bad.
     
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  3. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I saw some snarky comments throwing shade at Rick for allowing Maggie on the mission after Carol expressed concerned, so some people are blaming him. (But then people blame Rick for the ZA so I shouldn't be surprised)
     
  4. ClassicWoman

    ClassicWoman Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    Ultimately it's up to her and Glenn, but hell no she shouldn't been out there, it puts additional stress on the group and I'm surprised that only Carol said something.
     
  5. Silas

    Silas Beloved Side Piece
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    I think Carol has a habit of being a bit extreme once she takes a stance on something. And I don't mean that in a hateful way, but it's because she's that damn desperate to protect her family by whatever means she sees necessary in any particular moment. In the old days, that meant fighting. But now that they can take a breather, I think Carol is beginning to see the benefit in taking a step back at times. So was Carol pushy? Absolutely. But Carol is always a bit pushy and I love her for it because she does it out of love. And I prefer to judge folks by their intentions instead of their actions.

    Don't get me wrong, it's annoying at times when anyone is pushy but I won't lose any sleep over it or go on a Carol hating rampage.

    And for the record, @Doctor Grimes, you're one of the best people in this fandom when it comes to expressing complex ideas.
     
  6. richonneromance

    richonneromance Caressing Eugene's Mullet

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    Oh yeah, the Carl thing and now this is the worst aspect of TWD writing, no one logically speaks unless it's 100% relevant to the immediate plot. So if they all need to go because Maggie needs to get captured then no one will speak up about her going along. If Rick has to go to Hilltop, he won't spare even a minute to comfort his insecure son. It turns the characters from 3D to mere plot devices.
     
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  7. deadaddict

    deadaddict Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Maggie is out there trying to help her husband.
    Yes, she should be out there too.
    Nothing or nobody will stop her anyways.
     
  8. tuswig

    tuswig Bitch Slayer

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    I am always Team Rick, however this was one of the few times when I was " Rick, come on" I would have appreciated perhaps a scene of Rick talking to Glenn and Maggie like "Hey, you guys don't have to go. Do what is best for you and your family" So him not telling them what to do but atleast recognizing that they too have a family to take into consideration and that not going on the mission is an option for them. When Carol was talking to Rick about Maggie it looked like he had an epiphany near the end, almost as if he himself forgotten that Maggie was a pregnant woman. I will stress again that the call to go or not was ultimately up to Glenn and Maggie, but as a leader, Rick has a say as well on who accompanies him on a mission, and I would have like to have seen him wrestle with that a bit as opposed to being reminded by Carol.
     
  9. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I got the sense it was a conversation that had happened off screen. I refuse to believe Rick, Maggie, and Glenn didn't have a chat about her role in the mission -- which is exactly why she was guarding the perimeter in the first place (safest job on the list). It just probably didn't make the cut / wasn't considered a critical scene.
     
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  10. tuswig

    tuswig Bitch Slayer

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    This could be true...but I think there's a reason why Carol was questioning Rick about his decision to let Maggie come...foreshadowing of people (maybe even Carol) questioning Rick's leadership?
     
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  11. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Oh I know it's coming. Especially after the finale. Rick hate is gonna be all the rage. Ugh, I am not looking forward to it -- especially when Rick even told the group this wasn't his decision to make, but a joint one. He made the plan at the Outpost, and it would've worked flawlessly had a few kinks not happened.

    Also Morgan is going to get a pass and all this praise for being "wise" for being the lone voice to dissent against Rick, when his plan was just as stupid. Talking to the Saviors? Morgan clearly didn't get the memo about these guys. That just won't work. Not with Negan.
     
  12. tuswig

    tuswig Bitch Slayer

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    Very true! The plan was working until the one Savior set off the fire alarm. Also, while I agree that attacking the Saviors wasn't the best idea, I couldn't be fully on board with Morgan because talking wasn't going to work either. I do like that Rick took the more democratic approach on whether or not to attack the Saviors but you know that won't matter when shit hits the fan.
     
  13. Tater

    Tater Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I would expect everyone in TF to be concerned about Maggie so Carol expressing that to Rick, I really didn't have a problem with. I would have liked it if Rick acknowledged that concern and said, yeah, I understand, but it's Maggie's choice. I thought he was a bit dismissive. Maybe he was offended because he thought Carol was acting as if she's the only one who cared. Who knows. This show isn't known for clear dialogue. I would have liked Rick to have shown in his dialogue that he understood or thought about the issue. But ultimately, neither really bothered me. I actually liked that Carol was concerned. And Rick's dismissal, though not ideal, didn't make him an asshole or blameworthy of anything because at the end, maggie is an adult and did talk it through with Glenn. But yeah, she probably shouldn't have been out there. and both were pretty crappy at guarding the perimeter. LOL

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[​IMG]
     
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  14. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I get what you are saying but it was bad timing. Maggie was already there. This is something that should have been brought up before they went on the mission, not after they were already there. At that point Rick couldn't really do anything because Maggie was already there. So him going to her or Glenn and saying something about it would have seems kind of stupid and pointless to me.

    Also, Rick gave them full detail on what they were going to do and how. He didn't leave anything out while they were at home. He also made it clear that those who didn't want or can't go on the mission didn't have to, like Morgan. To me, that is him giving them the chance to do what's right for them. So anything else he did would seem like he was trying to tell them what to do.
     
  15. tuswig

    tuswig Bitch Slayer

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    Absolutely! Maggie was already there by the time Carol approached Rick, so I wouldn't expect him to send her home but like @Tater mentioned in her post , he came off as a bit indifferent about it all. But ultimately, both Glenn (although he seemed uneasy) and Maggie decided to be there. So if Glenn wants to blame anyone for Maggie's kidnapping (not saying that he will but just in case) he can only blame his self and Maggie.
     
  16. CSilverado4life

    CSilverado4life Watchtower Sniper

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    I vote for no because of her pregnancy, however it was her decision and it essentially had nothing to do with either Carol or Rick . The only ones who had any say were Maggie and Glenn and they already talked about it, and made the decision to go together accepting the risks.
     
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  17. CrownRoyale

    CrownRoyale Slopping Pigs

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    It really depends on how you look at it. The group, in their arrogance, believed that this would be a simple mission and that's it. Maggie guarding the perimeter isn't a life threatening situation from that standpoint. Hell if thats your stance, you could make a case for why Maggie shouldn't have gone to the hilltop, or Rick not leaving her alone outside with Jesus (especially with the threat of it being a trap over their heads). They live in a world with risks and its up to the person, if they are an adult to make their own decisions.

    That being said I didn't like the fact that Maggie was out there, because I think she went so that her and Glenn would not be separated again. It reminds me of Maggie and Aaron in 6.05. I think I was the only one that did not like Maggie's epiphany that she could not go to look for Glenn, after it became apparent that she could not do so without risking certain death. Her decision didn't take in to account that she will be a mother in the near future, or that there will be a new human being who's life should be more important to her than Glenn's, it was all about reuniting with her husband. Maggie stated that se wanted to go because she negotiated the deal, but she didn't need to, and that's what makes me suspect that this was about her fear of losing Glenn again. I really wish Glenn would have spoken up at this point and given his opinion.

    As far as Carol goes, I think she was within her right to express her opinion to Maggie. I think she got slightly out of a line when it seemed like she was trying to push her opinions on to Maggie. As far as Carol and Rock's exchange about Maggie, I got the sense that he was annoyed with her. If you notice Rick looks away from Carol, he never looks back at her and then he walks away. I wonder if they had some tension during the time jump?
     
  18. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
    Staff Member Moderator Patron

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    Yep. I just saw someone on my dash say Rick wouldn't have gotten any flack if he did what Carol did.....I'm not sure which fandom they belong to but it can't be TWD.

    Fact is, it's a delicate situation, and someone would get on someone's case no matter how it went down.

    Maggie wanted to go, she and Glenn spoke about it and decided she would. It was no one else's decision.

    Someone would've given Glenn shit if he told her not to go, "She's a grown woman, she's not your property." And I'm sure someone's saying "Wow way to not look out for your wife and child, Glenn."

    I understand Carol's concern but going to Rick with it was like two parents having a talk about what their child could or could not do and that's wrong. I just hope that wasn't a spark to start strife between Rick and Carol because he looked annoyed that she was talking to him about this and she looked like she thought he was being a moron for "letting" Maggie come. I may need to put a forcefield around the bunker...
     
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  19. Silas

    Silas Beloved Side Piece
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    As far as Rick's reaction to Carol goes...if she'd approached me in that same manner I may have cold shouldered her too. But I'm an ass.
     
  20. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    It makes sense. Carol and Rick are Team Mom and Team Dad. It totally did smack of two parents having a discussion about "the kids", which was very strange, but it makes sense for both their characters.

    Either way, because of that scene, Rick was going to get criticism from one side or another, and the people on the Rick Grimes Hate Crusade were going to use the moment no matter what he had said (unless he agreed with Carol instantly, but then there would still be judgment of "lol Rick was so dumb for having Maggie there is the first place"). I have long ago acknowledged that, for some out there, Rick Grimes can do no right.

    It's only going to get worse after the finale.
     
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