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Discussion/Meta Maggie: Should she have been out there? Yes or No?

Discussion in '6x12: Not Tomorrow Yet' started by Doctor Grimes, Mar 6, 2016.

  1. Armte

    Armte Schadenfreude is my Aesthetic
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    I don't believe pregnant women should be treated like delicate flower but I also think people should respect what a pregnancy does to a woman's body and mind. You are carrying another human being and a lot of changes occur. You get tired easy, sick, so I do think people should look after pregnant women especially in the ZA. I know Maggie wanted to help TF and be by Glenn's side and it was her choice. However this was no simple run. This was a military operation, guns blazing and they were killing people. There was a serious chance she and her unborn child could have been shot or killed. This was no simple old mission or run. I agree with Carol, she should not have been out there. Carol needs to work on her tact and timing a little better, because once again an argument ensues and they get blindsided by the enemy.

    I am waiting for the shit to hit the fan with Rick and Carol since they arrived at Alexandria. There is an undercurrent of animosity towards each other. I feel Carol thinks Rick is not doing a good job as a leader. The look Rick gave Carol as he way walked away screamed that Rick was done with her questioning him.
     
    #41 Armte, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  2. DanNintendoMan

    DanNintendoMan The ship's cook

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    I think it's because of two reasons.

    1. Maggie's pregnancy

    2. Maggie is somewhat of the group's negotiator at this point since she made the deal with Gregory and we saw Deanna voicing her faith in Maggie's potential. Without Maggie, it's possible that the group might not thrive as strongly or Gregory will call off the deal and sick his attack dogs on them.

    Maybe I'm overthinking it, but that's the way I see it.
     
  3. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
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    Please no. I'm having war flashbacks from S4. I'm going to have to just be like:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Belle

    Belle Perpetual notion machine - what if...
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    I agree with you. Maggie shouldn't have been there. Carol had ample time and opportunity to talk to Maggie and Glenn about it. I have no problems with her passion on the subject, but as you said - her timing sucked. I also think she should keep in mind that Maggie is a grown ass woman who can make her own decisions. At the end of the day, it's entirely Maggie and Glenn's choice. Carol is as stubborn as Morgan - which is fine - but I didn't like her trying to force Maggie to bend to her will.
     
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  5. Ship Verse

    Ship Verse I.D.G.A.F.
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    Its been brewing for me since the end of S2. The damn banishment shit, and everything afterward. The fandom, I'm just so annoyed by it.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. DirtieBirdie

    DirtieBirdie Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Yep. And why the hell was Carol giving Rick such a hard time about Maggie? I get it, he is the leader, but no one ever questions Glenn. He's her husband. Why not interrogate him? (Don't get me wrong, I adore Glenn, but I'm tired of Rick taking all the responsibility ALL of the time)
     
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  7. DCBABY

    DCBABY Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    I think people are looking at Maggie's pregnancy with modern eyes and feel she should not have come along. But for most of human civilization women, no matter their condition, have been involved in warfare. It only recently that women are treated as though pregnancy is a handicap and they need to be home in the corner or baking a pie. Women have gone to war with babies strapped to their backs because they knew it's all about the skills they could contribute and more importantly the numbers. The more fighters you have, the better your odds. If Maggie felt she could contribute to the continuing life of her community, why not fight. This was her deal, she can't just sit back and send everyone off to war then chill at home and watch Judith.

    So basically, it's her choice and she told her husband her choice and that was the end of it to me...meaning Carol needs to take several seats because Rick isn't Maggie's daddy or her man so to approach him like she did was unnecessary.
     
  8. day dreamer

    day dreamer Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    She shouldn't be out there, she has more than just herself to think about now. I get why she wanted to be there, but she could've easily been a big help back at Alexandria, keeping an eye on things while they're gone.
     
  9. Silas

    Silas Beloved Side Piece
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    @Clutterbuck those ain't war flashbacks you're having, the war is still raging. S4 still gets beat into the ground, like the dead horse that it is.

    If Rick and Carol go at it again, I'm gonna have to be heavily intoxicated to participate in fandom activities. Personally, I find it entertaining to watch the two of them go head to head because it's just that...entertaining. Typically they both have a good point, but like all things in TWD universe - there's never one right answer.

    But I'd pay a kidney for fandom to watch them disagree without declaring war.
     
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  10. Flower1petals

    Flower1petals Den Mother

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    Let me say that I don't think it was her right to say anything about it. That was Maggie/Glen's decision. But I understand it.

    I don't know if this came into her thinking but babies and children represent the future and hope. I think she needs to hold on to that and if somrthing were to happen to maggie and tge baby, a little of tgat would be crushed And then with Sophia, she can't do through that again. Like another poster stated ( can't recall which of you it was), badass Carol isn't who she really is, she is still the woman, mother she was before all this happened.

    Just my take on it.
     
  11. day dreamer

    day dreamer Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Another thing, since we're talking about this scene in particular. This has to be one of the worst directed scenes I've ever seen TWD do. It just reiterates that Nicotero should step away from the director's chair.

    I get why Carol asked Rick as the leader, but the timing of it was dumb, they were already out there, and the way that scene was staged as terrible. Carol seemed furious about it instead of concerned like MMB said she was going for. It's like GN was like "be madder!" Then Rick's delivery was inconsistent. His voice said he agreed with Carol, but his stance was very dismissive. Then when Carol did talk to Maggie, it's like the same thing happened with Carol earlier. Maggie looked furious instead of just defensive. It's very clear GN gave his notmally very good actors bad notes in this scene.
     
  12. Ship Verse

    Ship Verse I.D.G.A.F.
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    It reminds me of when they said Danai said Nicotero told her she played the seeing Rick's face for the first time "too flirty". Like wut??? I agree with your assessments. The reactions don't seem quite natural sometimes. Just let the actors do what they do. Smh.
     
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  13. Armte

    Armte Schadenfreude is my Aesthetic
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    I was not looking at it in modern terms, I was viewing it from the standpoint of "was it necessary". Did she really need to be out there in the first place and in my opinion the answer is no. Maggie wasn't a part of the storm the bunker team, she was just a look out, which they had many other people who could handle that. I understand why Maggie was out there during MSP when all hell broke loose and it was a matter of life and death because a zombie horde was bearing down on them. She had no choice, fight or die. But she did have options this time and she choose to put herself and her child in danger when she did not have to. And I understand it's her choice but I don't agree with it. If I was in Maggie's place and pregnant, I would not have been out there.
     
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  14. day dreamer

    day dreamer Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Nicotero tends to force things that are unnatural. Him telling DG she was too flirty in the episode commentary was BS. He also tried to force Daryl telling Beth that Zach was dead into sexual territory by insisting her sweater should fall off her shoulder and Daryl should touch her despite NR agruing that he shouldn't.

    Then there's the matter of his forced "artistic" touches in the episodes he directs but that deserves its own thread in general.
     
  15. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Starting a directing thread isn't a bad idea. I know there are moments I've been incredibly skeptical and WTF about their choices -- especially Nicotero's.
     
  16. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    I second this motion. Some of the choices have always been odd to me. It would be nice to put a face to who was responsible for it.
     
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  17. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Honestly, Carol being adamant about Maggie leaving didn't seem like a reflection of her views on the role of pregnant women or women in general. This was her working through her own feelings as mother. She doesn't want Maggie to fail as a mother as she has, and if that means going over Maggie and demanding Rick to tell her to go, then so be it. She didn't ask Maggie first because she made the decision to be there, and she didn't waste her time with Glenn because if he was opposed to it, then Maggie wouldn't have been there in the first place. When Rick doesn't seemed too concerned, Carol takes it upon herself to be by Maggie's side. My only question is, why didn't Carol voice her concern before they got into the car?
     
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  18. Chaos

    Chaos Searching for my Snatched Wig
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    I just don't understand why Carol went to Rick.

    Last time I checked, Maggie had a husband, and it damn sure ain't Rick

    IDK, I like Carol, but I don't understand the importance of that scene or what that was supposed to make me feel.

    Like yall have stated, the timing was off. If Carol felt so strongly about Maggie going why didn't she say something sooner? What was Rick suppose to do, drive Maggie back home???

    And why didn't she interrogate Glenn about it, you know, Maggie's husband?!?! Rick isn't responsible for everyone, especially adults who openly make their own decisions. Maggie was there, along with Glenn, when they were all looking over the layout of the Saviors location. If Glenn didn't have a problem with her going, why would Rick say anything???

    I feel like the writers just set shit up so that Rick can get hate. I really don't see the purpose of this whole thing other than for Rick to feel guilty and receive hate from the viewers.
     
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  19. Lugubria

    Lugubria Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    I think it was mostly a plot contrivance to get Maggie and Carol kidnapped and so that we could see Carol projecting onto Maggie some of what Tobin said to her earlier. Whatever the reason, I found everything about it unbearably annoying and it's making me defensive of Maggie that people think she doesn't know her own mind or strengths. And of Rick since he would never treat Maggie in such a paternalistic way. He respects her too much as a person, leader, and fighter.
     
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  20. Valerie

    Valerie Professional procrastinator....
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    I just dont like it, they are gonna blame Rick and I did not like that Carol spoke to Rick like Maggie was his responsability, Maggie is a grown up and if she had to talk to someone about it, it should have been maggie herself or glenn....