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Discussion/Meta Negan's Harem: Are the women victims of rape?

Discussion in 'Negan / Jeffrey Dean Morgan' started by Doctor Grimes, Sep 12, 2016.

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Are the women in Negan's harem victims of sexual violence and/or rape?

  1. Yes, they are victims of rape. He coerces them into having sex with him.

    50 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. No, they are not victims of rape. It was their choice.

    6 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. They are victims, but not of rape.

    20 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. Undecided / Unsure

    14 vote(s)
    15.6%
  1. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
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    I agree. I had been on the fence before when we didn't have all the information but after last night there's no doubt in my mind. It's rape. It's just saddening to see the number of people trying to defend Negan now because they're latching onto the "as long as they say yes" bit of dialogue. :ogg:
     
  2. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    With just the comics as a guide, I thought it was ambiguous, but having seen it I now think it's coercive rape.
     
  3. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Hearing those words, horrible. He is a creepy, smary, "I know you like me, I'm so sexy, say 'yes' and I won't kill you" rapist. I was never torn, you can't chose with a gun to your head, figurative or literal. People do what they have to do to survive...so the ones they love can survive. (That exchange of dialogue between Negan and Dwight, ewww, just ewww. It was disgusting, saying that to him and they are married. Negan is so very warped, twisted. He was enjoying rubbing it in Dwight's face. To think that there are other women in that circumstance, be raped or die or starve or be offered up to other men (?--am I misinterpreting his "pick one" offer?) is very f-ed up. And, people think he, that, is cool?
     
  4. Butler36

    Butler36 What?
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    I thought this was an interesting article on this subject.

    The Walking Dead’: Negan’s Disturbing Fondness for Rape

    Key points from the article:

     
  5. Lilly965

    Lilly965 Wig Shopping For Michonne
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    I'm convinced he's gonna try this with one of our team family women.
     
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  6. balladsinthebluegrass

    balladsinthebluegrass Hold to things that are bright.
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    "We're capable of recognizing what he's done for what it is. We are not Negan, after all."

    Excellent line. I want to point it out to everyone defending Negan on this topic.
     
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  7. accioval

    accioval Watchtower Sniper

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    Just bumping this thread to ask what everyone's thoughts were regarding the harem shown on last night's episode and whether or not any viewpoints have changed or remained the same.
     
  8. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    Thanks for the bump. We need it after last night.

    My opinion has only been confirmed. It was clear by the mood of that room, the lack of chatter, the way the wives were stiff and tense when Negan was in the room, that they are not there of their own free will. Negan may not hit them but he certainly tortures their husbands and boyfriends if they misbehave. What else does he hold over their heads if they don't fall in line?

    Sherry kissed him and looked willing (albeit not too into it) but then she knocked down a tumbler of whiskey immediately after. She struck me as a woman doing what she HAD to do to survive and she's putting on an act to keep her #1 status.

    I said it in my review of the episode and I'll say it again. Negan's Harem consists of women who are being coerced and who truly do not have free will. That, in my mind, makes Negan a rapist.
     
  9. accioval

    accioval Watchtower Sniper

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    I absolutely one-hundred percent agree with this. Before this episode, I considered Negan''s "harem" shady AT BEST, and definite coercive rape, but actually viewing it, I feel even more sure of this.

    I watched the episode with someone who was moderately alright with Negan thus far, but when she saw the Harem part, she quickly changed her tune. She's a GA to the core and didn't mind him, even excused some of his actions, but this made her call him a "sick son of a bitch."

    The harem scenes turned my stomach and made me feel sick. It was clear as day that Mark's wife/girlfriend wasn't consenting, and the things he said to her were straight out of the rapist handbook. It's clear as day that he's coercively raping these women.

    He tells them that their weak, can't survive on their own, and then punishes them if they go to someone else. There isn't a choice here.
     
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  10. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Also, how old was that blonde girl? She could have been Beth. Eeew. I'm surprised Negan didn't say something to Enid or say something like Judith could be his wife when she grows up. They totally set the harem up to look like high class call girls. One weird thing though, Sherry wasn't in black before, why now? Also Negan decorates like a rich goth kid.
     
  11. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
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    This. Why on earth did the show cast someone so young looking? :dale: It would have been just as easy to cast a woman who looked 30 and that way it doesn't look like Negan would be helping her with her homework later. Unfortunately something tells me the show really doesn't care how he looks and they're convinced people will love him anyway....and people, women, do.:|

    My friend and I were texting throughout the episode last night, she's not GA but she has no real comic knowledge, she just kept asking me why earth the show would promote a character like this. I've never watched this show in such a suspended state of disgust.
     
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  12. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    A lot of women could care less how a man treats another woman, especially onscreen. They want to think that somehow that bad boy would be good to THEM. I will never forget once when a co-worker was raving about one of the SOA characters hitting a woman and how much she wanted him in that moment. Like, it turned her on. Plus, most of these women are superficial.
     
  13. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Right on point, he even referred to her mother. What could he have been doing, forcing them to go out to scavenge, an older woman? That girl was probably terrified of the walkers and afraid for her mother's life. I'm sure that young girl was worried about surviving, herself and her loved ones. It was so disgusting . In a previous post, I stated that the use of rape is just as much about emasculating men as it is about terrorizing women. .. Negan certainly proved that with his little display and the words he used referring to that poor man. And, Judith, yes...exactly. In that system, she would be subject to that same fate. There is no ambiguity to me. None, at all. The "harem" is the most revolting thing currently in the show. The only thing worse has been the Terminus folks. Negan has all kinds of issues with his system. Making a woman "choose" sex with him or all kinds of horrors, is a horror.
     
  14. ALDGRichonneLover

    ALDGRichonneLover "I wanted it to be ours, me and you"
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    So true Mamma Grimes. As I watched all of the women, they were all dolled up, but silent as mice and the looks on their faces SCREAMED that they wanted to be anywhere but there with Negan. There wasn't anything ambiguous at all for me. Negan is their pimp and he essentially pimps them out to himself and other men, all under the guise of "giving them a choice on their own free will" when we know this is straight BS. He is a rapist in the worst form because he makes is appear that the women are willing when it is so apparent they are not. They are in his harem for the sole reason of keeping themselves and their loved ones alive. Sherry was an example with this. She knows how to play the game, and play Negan, like she did with the kiss. She acted as if she was into it, but I saw her stiffen when lead me to believe otherwise. In addition, the swig of the alcohol afterwards. Negan knew Dwight was coming so he had to put on a show to stick it to Dwight, that he was coveting his wife sexually. And the young blonde girl, just. no. The whole exchanges were just :puke::puke::puke::tdog::grumpy::michonneeye: on so many levels. How fans can justify this with Negan, I will never know. As a woman, I am just completely grossed TF out and don't know how some women find this whole harem with Negan sexy. It's behond my comprehension.
     
  15. sharky

    sharky Babysitting Judith

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    I want to see more of the harem. The show really only scratched the surface of how ugly it is for those women, and shockingly enough people still have the idolized view of Negan even though he was basically revealed to be a rapist. Using one of TF to 'infiltrate' the harem (intentionally of course, Sasha or Rosita would do this to find a way to kill or overthrow Negan) wouldn't be a bad idea imo. And I half expect Dwight and Sherry are flopping as characters because they're trying to be propped up by Daryl who himself is barely 1/4th of a character at this point.

    But anyway - not that they should go so far as one of TF to be raped by Negan, but this is a huge aspect to Negan's character that shouldn't be brushed under the rug. It destroys the fanboys arguments that Negan is a "fair guy" or "just doin business", he is a serial rapist. Although from what I've seen some people still don't get that (or care?) after 7.07...
     
  16. QueenofPeace

    QueenofPeace Guts.
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    Yeah, there's no ambiguity to me in regard to the harem. Negan is a rapist without a doubt. That scene last night with the women was so creepy. Those women looked somber and terrified. Basically dolled up escorts for Negan's sexual pleasure as well as possibly some of the other men (thinking back to comments from 7x03). Negan is definitely a vile man, absolutely disturbing and disgusting and there is no redeeming him IMO.

    As far as his fan boys and girls go, yeah.....I don't see how you can "like" Negan. I can see appreciating him as a villain (or really appreciating any horrid villain from the Joker to Voldemort, whatever), but to actually make excuses for his behavior is something else entirely, which is what some of the fandom does. there's a difference IMO between acknowledging a villain as effective or loving to hate one, and flat out being a fan who is A-OK or excuses for certain behaviors/actions.
     
  17. Nightmare

    Nightmare FAIRY PRINCESS♚
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    I chose yes, because Negan is in a position of authority over these women. Sure, they could "choose" to not be his wife and slum it down with the rest of them, but they will never have the choice to leave altogether. In the Sanctuary, as someone else put it, Negan is God.

    It's the same reason student-teacher relationships are illegal. They have authority over the other. The power imbalance is too great.

    Not to mention, not everyone is built for the way things work there. In some cases, its really a choice to either sell yourself or die. Like with Tina. It was imperative she take her insulin to live. They were running behind on points and from the way Negan told it, it was clear if Tina did not begin having sex with Negan, she would have no points to take it, and would therefore die.

    That's why they stole the insulin. Because she did not want to sell herself to him, but still needed to take it to live. If she felt like she had to run away to save her life?

    I consider it rape by coercion.
     
  18. candi18z

    candi18z Den Mother

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    Due to recent spoilers/speculation,I think that Negan is going to try to get either Rosita or Sasha to join his harem.
     
  19. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Please, not that. How revolting. I'm not okay with either of them having to do that. Even if it is to get ol' boy. It is yucky and very, very risky.
     
  20. candi18z

    candi18z Den Mother

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    At this point it could go either way, but there has been speculation that we may see more of the harem but with one of TF women going undercover to get to Negan. But, that may just be speculation and we may not see any of the TF women in the harem.
     
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