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Discussion/Meta Negan's Harem: Are the women victims of rape?

Discussion in 'Negan / Jeffrey Dean Morgan' started by Doctor Grimes, Sep 12, 2016.

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Are the women in Negan's harem victims of sexual violence and/or rape?

  1. Yes, they are victims of rape. He coerces them into having sex with him.

    50 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. No, they are not victims of rape. It was their choice.

    6 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. They are victims, but not of rape.

    20 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. Undecided / Unsure

    14 vote(s)
    15.6%
  1. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    And ALL of his men if they say yes... under these circumstances what is the chance of them saying "No"?
     
  2. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    Nazi Germany

    [​IMG]
    Nazi sex slave story finally told at camp

    http://www.thelocal.de/20090228/17711

    A new exhibition at Nazi concentration camp Ravensbrück near Berlin details the fate of women forced to work as sex slaves for fellow prisoners during World War II.
    “They told us we were in the camp brothel, that we were the lucky ones. We would eat well and have enough to drink. If we behaved and fulfilled our duties nothing would happen to us.”

    So begins the wrenching account of Frau W., a prisoner of the Nazi concentration campRavensbrück north of Berlin who was forced to work as a sex slave for her fellow detainees.

    Her story forms the centrepiece of a new exhibition at Ravensbrück about the fate of women pressed into prostitution between 1942 and 1945, like Asia's ‘comfort women’ during World War II.

    But rather than servicing soldiers, these women were made to have sex with the forced labourers – an idea from SS chief Heinrich Himmler to increase productivity try to prevent homosexuality from ‘breaking out’ among their ranks.

    Their numbers were far smaller than the tens of thousands of ‘comfort women’ kidnapped across Asia to serve Japanese troops.

    But Ravensbrück centre director Insa Eschebach said the at least 200, predominantly German women who were enslaved also endured paralysing trauma, shame and scorn in an until-now largely taboo chapter of European history.

    Most of the sex workers were taken from the women's camps at Ravensbrück and Auschwitz to ‘brothels’ at 10 camps in Germany and the Nazi-occupied eastern territories.

    The vast majority had been imprisoned for ‘anti-social’ behaviour - a crime arbitrarily defined under Hitler to include prostitutes but also women with suspect political ties or relationships with Jews.

    Those prisoners who had a privileged place in the camp hierarchy – exhibition curator Michael Sommer estimates about one percent of the forced labourers - could buy up to a quarter of an hour with one of the women for two Reichsmarks from the pittance they earned in the Nazi-run factories.

    A fraction of that amount was credited to women’s camp accounts which they could use for food when it was available.

    “The sex work was organised very bureaucratically,” said Sommer, showing prisoner files with the code 998 signifying a prostitute and vouchers used by men allowed to visit the camp brothel.

    No Jews worked at the brothels or were allowed to patronise them, and separate facilities were created for camp guards.

    Prostitutes were regularly tested for sexually-transmitted diseases to prevent outbreaks at the camps. Pregnancies were compulsorily ended by abortion.

    “The irony was that while the Nazis tried to regulate prostitution in German cities, they institutionalised it at the camps,” Sommer said.

    Some women volunteered for service in the brothels, which were heated and had slightly better hygienic conditions, after being promised early release from the life-threatening conditions of the camps.

    Others only learned of their fate when the first patrons were ushered in.

    Another woman whose testimony is featured in the exhibition, identified only as Frau B., said each woman worked in a small room where she received up to 10 men in two hours.

    “There was a spy hole and sometimes the guards would peek in and sneer,” she said.

    “But you know, we were so numb that we just thought, ‘Get stuffed, you bastards’.”

    Although the months in the brothel left her permanently scarred, Frau B. said the men who visited her were by and large decent.

    “They had also been locked up for years and were happy to have human contact,” she said. Sometimes, the men just wanted to talk.

    Many of the political prisoners boycotted the brothels. Communists at Buchenwald were convinced the bordellos would be used by the SS to spy on prisoners.

    Although nearly all the sex workers survived until the camps were liberated, there is scant evidence any were released early for service rendered.

    After the war, most of the German women kept their experience hidden, out of shame or trauma, while foreign victims feared being seen as collaborators.

    None received recognition from the German state as victims of sex slavery or compensation for their ordeal. Few, if any, are still alive today.

    Eschebach noted that sex slavery has only been recognised as a war crime under international law since 2002 and said the more recent occurrences of mass rape in Bosnia and Rwanda, as well as the demands of Asian ‘comfort women’ for justice, had prompted more research in Germany.

    The exhibition can be seen at Ravensbrück until March 8, after which there are plans to take it to Dresden, Bielefeld and then Rome.
     
    #162 Barbarossa-TWD, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
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  3. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    Zimbabwe

    GOVERNMENT officials tasked to distribute food aid to victims of the Tokwe-Mukorsi floods at Chingwizi transit camp in Masvingo have been accused of demanding sexual favours from teenage girls in exchange for goods.

    WINSTONE ANTONIO
    OWN CORRESPONDENT

    Sex-for-food at Chingwizi camp


    Civil society groups and sources at the transit camp, which houses an estimated 3 000 families, said several young women and teenage girls had fallen for the trap to supplement their families’ food rations.

    Parents who spoke to NewsDay on condition of anonymity accused government officials stationed at the camp of promoting the vice.

    “Some officials are demanding sex from women and children in exchange for food and other basics,” a parent said.

    “We are really concerned and we appeal for intervention by relevant authorities.”

    A government official at the site said he was aware of several colleagues involved in food-for-sex scandals and urged the Public Service Commission to investigate the matter and bring the culprits to book.

    “They are taking advantage of desperate women and girls to solicit for sex in exchange for food, blankets, tents and other necessities. Women end up giving in to their demands to save their families from starving,” he said.

    “Prostitution has suddenly risen here as some officials distributing food and other materials at the camp are abusing our wives and teenagers by demanding that they sleep with them and give them the commodities they distribute, particularly food.”

    Justice For Children Trust challenged relevant authorities to investigate the allegations.

    Justice For Children Trust programmes director Caleb Mutandwa said: “Such allegations of child abuse are serious and must be investigated and perpetrators brought to book if found guilty.”

    Masvingo Provincial Affairs minister Kudakwashe Bhasikiti last week said the situation at the camp required urgent attention as well as continued co-operation between government and the private sector in alleviating the food shortages.

    Government has said it requires about 156 000 tonnes of maize meal a month to feed the displaced families.
     
    #163 Barbarossa-TWD, Dec 11, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  4. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    Syria

    [​IMG]


    Exploit or Be Exploited: Survival Sex Among Syria's Refugee Women

    Each day, hundreds of Syrian women straggle into Jordan, Egypt and other countries in the region in search of security and a better life for themselves and their children. But because many of them have left their husbands behind in Syria, they are vulnerable to sexual violence and sexual exploitation.

    Humanitarian groups are working to tackle the problem, but complain that a lack of money to fund the effort prevents them from doing more to help these women and girls.

    Asmaa Donahue, an advisor with the International Rescue Committee (IRC),describes the challenges refugee women face once they cross the border:

    “While the lack of security in camps makes them less safe for women, at least things like food and some supplies and services are available,” Donahue said. “A much larger proportion of refugees in this crisis are actually living outside camps in towns and villages, and don’t have access to many services at all.”

    “Many are struggling to make ends meet, barely able to scrape together the monthly rent for overcrowded apartments, or squatting in abandoned buildings or makeshift camps. Many are not able to work legally and have no steady source of income,” Donahue said.

    As a result, women resort to risky survival strategies such as early or forced marriage or exchanging sex for food and a place to live.

    [​IMG]

    Advertisement in Damanhour, Egypt, newspaper: "We offer ladies with hijab, niqab, and Syrian ladies."


    Exploit—or be exploited

    The Zaatari refugee camp in northwestern Jordan has, by all reports, become a hub for quick marriages between Syrian women and men from other countries, particularly the Gulf area. Hamida Ghafour, a foreign affairs reporter for the Toronto Star, recently spent time at the camp for a report on the subject and describes it as “a buyer’s market.”

    “If you are a groom and you are looking for a bride, preying on Syrian women is easier because they are in a position of not having any bargaining rights in getting a mahr, a sort of dowry,” she said.

    (Note: In Islamic law, mahr, a requirement of marriage, is paid to the bride and is hers to spend or save as she wants. However, in some countries, it is paid to her family).

    “A lot of these women don’t know what else to do with their daughters, because they don’t have a tradition like you see elsewhere in the Arab world. Girls don’t go out and live on their own, go to university or live a single life,” Ghafour said, “so they have to get married, settle down.”

    Some men go to Jordan with the best of intentions, either out of a sense of religious duty or in search of a good wife, but because there is no way to investigate the backgrounds of prospective grooms and their families, families cannot be certain that their daughters will be treated well.

    The phenomenon has created new business opportunities; Ghafour relates the story of “Um Majid,” a 28-year-old refugee from Homs who works as a marriage broker:

    It began when a local aid organization approached her to ask if she knew any “pretty girls,” Um Majid said. Most of her business is conducted through word of mouth. Sometimes, she admits, she goes into the Zaatari camp posing as an aid worker to scout potential brides for her clients. She expresses shame, but says life is all about survival—you either exploit or be exploited.

    Read more here
     
  5. AbsoluteTrash

    AbsoluteTrash Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    ALL OF THIS. I wish I could like this a thousand times. What is the point system? Its so bad that people are willing to leave safety and travel the world alone, leave behind their own family, to get away. It looks like Negan has enforcers (Saviors) that basically goes out to the communities and collects goods. He gives them things (offers sex to them when they do well and vegetables). Negan has to keep the enforcers happy because they could easily have a coup or mutiny.

    The people lower down in the system have to get items from these enforcers...what is currency after the apocalypse???? When there is no food and you can't leave the Sanctuary and you have nothing left to barter, what are you willing to give in exchange??? Do you think the enforcers are stand up gentlemen when we just saw one inappropriately touching Enid over some ballons?!
     
  6. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    Ivory Coast/Liberia

    [​IMG]

    Refugees from Côte d’Ivoire walk with their belongings through Grand Gedeh County in eastern Liberia.

    © 2011 Reuters


    (Geneva) - Dozens of Ivorian refugee women and girls recently arrived in eastern Liberia say they have had to engage in sex to get adequate food, shelter, or money, Human Rights Watch said today. The Liberian government, the police, and United Nations agencies should take urgent measures to protect and assist vulnerable women and girls, including rapidly building protected shelter and helping them get sufficient and appropriate food, Human Rights Watch said.

    Over four days in early April 2011, two Human Rights Watch researchers spoke with 55 refugee women and girls as young as 13 who had fled to Grand Gedeh from Côte d'Ivoire. They said that without adequate food assistance, they, or other refugees they knew well, had been compelled to engage in sex for money or basic necessities to help them and their children survive. Under Liberian law, sex with a girl under 18 is rape and carries a maximum sentence of life in prison.

    "Vulnerable women and girls in parts of eastern Liberia fleeing appalling violence in Côte d'Ivoire are being exposed to sexual abuse," said Gerry Simpson, senior refugee researcher and advocate for Human Rights Watch, who led the research. "They told us that they had no choice but to engage in sex to meet basic and pressing food and shelter needs."

    UN agencies, supported by donors, should identify vulnerable refugee women and girls, and provide them with appropriate food and protected shelter, while law enforcement authorities should prosecute those who commit crimes against them, Human Rights Watch said.

    Most of the women and the vast majority of girls interviewed by Human Rights Watch said their husbands or parents had been killed or that they had been separated from them before they fled Côte d'Ivoire, although some of the girls said they were engaged in survival sex to help support their parents.

    A 25-year-old woman in the Toe Town transit center who had been gang raped by three armed men in Côte d'Ivoire before she fled to Liberia said:

    I have five children to look after and the food here makes them ill. I have to make money for other food. During sex with men in Toe Town, they ask me to do things I don't want to do and say they won't pay me if I don't agree. I need the money so I have no choice and I do what they say.

    As of April 14, 2011, just under 150,000 Ivorian refugees - including almost 6,000 girls ages 12 to 17 and around 35,000 women under age 60 - have fled to Liberia since late November 2010 to escape widespread violence in Côte d'Ivoire, according to the UN refugee agency.

    Most have settled in about 150 villages close to the border, where impoverished Liberian villagers straining under the influx have generously been their hosts, though some villagers have told refugees they have to leave because of a lack of food and housing.

    Refugee women and girls told Human Rights Watch that the bulgur wheat they had received from the UN World Food Program (WFP) made them and their children ill. WFP officials told Human Rights Watch that beginning in January, WFP told donors it would prefer to be given rice, or money to buy rice, for the refugees.

    On April 11, WFP began instructing refugees in some locations in Grand Gedeh County about the best way to prepare the wheat. On April 20 WFP said it had received a limited amount of rice to cover the needs of a few thousand refugees for a month and was expecting enough rice to feed just under 140,000 refugees for two months to arrive in the months to come.

    Human Rights Watch found refugee women and girls in desperate situations, engaging in sex to obtain money for food or shelter, in every type of location where refugees have settled in Grand Gedeh County: in a refugee transit center next to a small town where they engaged in survival sex at night, in a large town, and in a number of villages that have taken refugees in.

    The women and girls said that men approached them - at night as they slept in villages in schools sheltering dozens or hundreds of refugees or under open skies, or by day in villages and towns - and offered to give them food, shelter, or money in exchange for sex.

    Refugee women and girls in Grand Gedeh said they were increasingly unable to find food or shelter as villages strain under the numbers. Many of those who have found places with host families in towns told Human Rights Watch that the families sometimes threatened them with violence and forced them to work or have sex for shelter and food.

    Some said they were forced by their host families to do housework for long hours each day in exchange for a place on the floor at night and scraps of food. Some said that men in the families denied them food if they refused sexual advances.

    Refugees in many villages - especially in Liberia's Nimba County, most of whom arrived before February 24 - want to stay in the villages where WFP's partners have been distributing food. United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and aid agencies say that the women there want to stay close to their villages on the other side of the border.

    However, the situation is different in Grand Gedeh County villages, where numerous refugee women and girls told Human Rights Watch they would prefer to go to camps to receive food and shelter so they could stop engaging in survival sex to feed their families. As of April 18, WFP had distributed bulgur wheat to some of these refugees: 9,000 in 17 villages and the town of Zwedru and about 11,000 in the Toe Town refugee transit center.

    "Refugee camps are generally an option of last resort because they make refugees entirely dependent on aid agencies," Simpson said. "But in Grand Gedeh County, camps now appear to be the only way to ensure that women and girls can be quickly and adequately fed, sheltered, and protected."

    Human Rights Watch called on the UN refugee agency, the UNHCR, to make setting up camps in Grand Gedeh County for refugees wishing to go there a priority. It also urged the agency to move quickly to deploy protection monitors in the county to identify vulnerable women and girls engaged in survival sex or suffering other forms of exploitation.

    More than half of the women and girls interviewed by Human Rights Watch who engaged in survival sex said they faced violence or threats of violence if they refused to engage in certain sexual acts or if they insisted on the use of condoms. Under Liberian law, coercive sex, including threats of violence, constitutes rape, punishable with a maximum sentence of life in prison.

    Two sisters, ages 18 and 22, living in Toe Town said they had 10 children in their care to feed. They told Human Rights Watch that some of the men they had sex with slapped and punched them when they refused to comply with their demands. A 20-year-old woman, also in Toe Town, said one man had grabbed her by the throat when she asked him to wear a condom.

    Human Rights Watch called on the Liberian criminal justice system, including the police in towns such as Zwedru and Toe Town, to take reasonable steps to ensure the protection of refugee women and girls. This could include patrolling in locations where sexual abuse of refugee women and girls is likely to take place, such as hotels, bars, clubs, and restaurants, and arresting and prosecuting those who use or threaten violence against refugee women and girls, or who have sex with girls under 18.

    Human Rights Watch also called on the police to use existing community policing structures to encourage concerned Liberians to report abuse and rape of refugee women and girls. Human Rights Watch asked donors to help Liberia ensure that its police and justice systems can cope and ensure refugees' safety.

    "Refugee women and girls in eastern Liberia are clear on what it takes to make it possible for them to survive without exchanging sex for basic necessities," Simpson said. "Despite the many logistical challenges in eastern Liberia, the steps UN agencies need to take are clear: get rice to the refugees, set up camps for shelter and safety, and identify vulnerable women and girls."

    read more
     
  7. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    There is a pattern here people.
    Poor women uprooted and without the protection of male relatives are exploited and raped.

     
  8. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Set during the Liberian Civil War, “Eclipsed” follows a group of women who are the captive wives of a rebel officer, and what happens when a new woman arrives.
    The play is about the three-way struggle for the Girl’s heart and soul, artfully reflecting the difficult choices that every Liberian girl must make when she becomes a woman. Will she put herself under the protection of a powerful warlord, as the commander’s two remaining wives have done? Should she make her own destiny and become a soldier, like the swaggering Maima? Or will women like Rita (the forthright Akosua Busia) convince her that true survival — of self, and more important, of home and country — lies in joining the Peace Women of Liberia and working to end the civil war?
     
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  9. SweetDee85

    SweetDee85 Richonne Trash
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    @Barbarossa-TWD, you are coming through with FACTS and receipts! This has been happening in REAL LIFE for years. Suddenly, we are supposed to be okay with Negan doing this same type of thing because some find him "attractive". BULLSHIT.

    I also forgot to add on my previous post. Negan offers up his "wives" to other saviors. Is that okay too? Since some people don't want to label what Negan is doing is rape, what would they call a man who offers up "his wives" to other men? What if the "wives" don't want to have sex with other men? they probably already don't even want to have sex with Negan What happens? Will they be punished? Or do they just go on living?
     
  10. accioval

    accioval Watchtower Sniper

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    To me there are absolutely no grey areas in consent at all. It's as black and white as a woman NOT wanting to participate in a sexual act/sex with someone, then I consider that action rape. These women are being forced/coerced into a situation where it's have sex with Negan or die. Let's not pretend like these women have any choice in the matter.

    In Sherry's situation, it doesn't make her less of a victim because she offered sex in order to keep her husband from dying. She was in a no win situation where Negan chased down her diabetic sister who could have died without her medication if she didn't become his wife. I don't know how this situation is at all excusable.

    People like to brush broad strokes on situations in order to make women more culpable to men who simply want power over them. Rape is not about sexuality, lust, or anything like that; people who rape do so to have a position of power over someone else and that's exactly why Negan is doing this. There's rape culture, wherein young girls send a nude picture to someone and it gets spread all over but the victim gets blamed because she posted it. There's women who are held captive in someone's home for ten years but are questioned as to why they stayed. A woman can be gang raped by two football players at her college, but she wore that long skirt and drank a slipped drug in her drink. These are harmful ways to treat rape, but people consider these the grey areas, and excusable, just as Negan's actions are "excusable" to some because he's not clearly a stranger forcing them into sex with his hands around their throats, but it is what it is and it's disgusting.
     
  11. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Dear God! That is beyond words! That poor girl. I am sick to my stomach.
     
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  12. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    @Barbarossa-TWD , reading your posts is making me extremely sad and disheartened. Those accounts are so disturbing. But, it is also powerful to know and speak the truth. It amplifies the voice of those victimized when these horrible situations are exposed, when they have a witness to them bearing witness about their experience. I am aware of the plight of vulnerable women and girls around the world, particularly in developing nations. I don't blame victim/survivors of oppression, I side with them. I blame the victimizer. I cannot stand with oppressors. I am so glad that you gave very clear, pointed examples of what women and girls/children face on a daily basis throughout the world. Desperate people do desperate things. People can't "choose" when they have a literal, or figurative, gun (or barb-wired bat) to their head. They want to live, they want their loved one to live. It's not hard to figure out. Not to me, anyway. As far as Negan is concerned, a woman's status as a "wife", real or imagined, doesn't negate the fact that she is being abused or is a victim of sexual violence, rape. Being a " wife" can be the most dangerous status for a woman, as we well know. Thank you for posting the cold, bare facts. The creatives of TWD need to read these posts and be definitive about what it is Negan is doing concerning the "harem", his "wives". The subject matter is too important to be intentionally ambiguous or use unclear language. It is what it is: sexual violence, rape. They need to pick a side. I hope it is the right side.
     
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  13. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    The examples are endless ; Chinese women interned in Japanese War camps, every slave plantation in US south (house slaves vs field slaves) etc. etc. etc.

    I hate that Kirkman tried to obscure this abuse under the guise of "civility".
     
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  14. Lilly965

    Lilly965 Wig Shopping For Michonne
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    From the comments under this YouTube clip it's clear that many just don't care about the women being treated this way, but think Negan is amazing because of it. Sad

     
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  15. blackjack

    blackjack Babysitting Judith

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    What are you talking about? They're obviously truly in love with him. They're enjoying every part of this. They aren't afraid of him at all.
     
  16. Walkingonsunshine

    Walkingonsunshine The Ones Who Live
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  17. ALDGRichonneLover

    ALDGRichonneLover "I wanted it to be ours, me and you"
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    Yep, and Yep! Folk excusing Negan because he is A-T-T-R-A-C-T-I-V-E. Would we even be having this convo if he looked like Joe from the Claimers or Fat Joey, the Savior? Ummm... kay...
     
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