1. Welcome to Tell It to the Dead. We're a discussion forum for AMC's The Walking Dead. Please don't hesitate to ping staff with any questions or concerns. Have fun and watch out for walkers!
    Dismiss Notice

Discussion/Meta Negan's Sadism & Sexual Subtext

Discussion in 'Negan / Jeffrey Dean Morgan' started by Doctor Grimes, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,572
    Likes Received:
    49,757
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    Yeah, his voice changed afterwards like he was riding a high. It made my blood run cold.

    Yeah, the "money shot" analogy works well for it because it is a blood spatter that was focused on the entire episode. It's a symbol of Negan having got off on hurting Rick's group -- a symbol Rick has to wear on his face. It's so horrifying and degrading.

    I agree, @Mousey. Whether it's JDM's choice or directing, Negan is a sexually-charged character. Everything he does is just laden with subtext.

    This isn't just about bringing groups under his dominion. He's not just a tyrant. He's a sexual deviant who is doing this for, like you said, his own gratification.

    Yeah, I noticed the similarity as well between these two scenes. I figured it was a callback to a moment when Rick was able to go to the extremes to save his son. Only this time Rick wasn't. In one instance, it was an attempted physical rape, in the other it's an emotional/psychological rape.
     
  2. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,946
    Walker Pets:
    113

    I've read the "cliff notes " to the GN and the alcohol is an easter egg to one of Negan's fighting tactics. But here is also where we see that Negan gets Rick COMPLETELY WRONG.

    Rick must've been "addicted" to being a leader,
    This couldn't be farthest form the truth, Rick is a leader in the style of Cincinnatus, only taking up leadership when needed and relinquishing after the threat is gone.
    So we've been given another easter egg on how to defeat Negan.
     
  3. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,946
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Rick: Y-You can do it to me. I c-- I can go with -- with you.

    Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29246

    D:D:D:D:D:
    What the hell is Rick talking about? Rick says Negan "can do "it" to me". Do what? Why would they need to go away to cut off his arm.

    Rick is totally tuned into Negan's sexual overtones.

    At first I HATED the episode and swore never to watch it again... but I did and it really does have redeeming qualities if you fast forward the killings.
     
    #23 Barbarossa-TWD, Oct 26, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  4. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,572
    Likes Received:
    49,757
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    I assume he meant "you can cut off my arm." But the way it was phrased was strange. "Do it" has often been used as a euphemism for sex.

    I, too, was curious about the "I can go with you" line as well. I am not sure what Rick meant. If it was all about cutting off Carl's arm, why would Rick think Negan wanted him?

    I think Rick was offering himself in whatever way Negan wanted -- to maim him, kill him, rape him, whatever. Rick just didn't want any harm to come to Carl. it was a blank check: "you can do [anything] to me"/"I can go with you."

    But Negan doesn't like martyrs. He doesn't let his victims choose.
     
  5. Niolle

    Niolle Wearing a Necklace of Ears

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    152
    Walker Pets:
    33
    Maybe he meant to go to Negan's doctor. Negan said his doctor would help Carl, right?
     
    blackjack, Mousey and Doctor Grimes like this.
  6. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,572
    Likes Received:
    49,757
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    It's just such a weird thing to say, but yeah I agree that's possible. Negan said Carl could go see their doctor, but I figured that as wrapped up in the whole "arm chop off" bundle. "I can go with you" made it sound like Rick was just offering to be Negan's play thing to me, but I guess it's up to audience interpretation. Rick was just trying anything to get the nightmare to stop.
     
  7. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    4,203
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Isn't Lucille named after his dead wife?
     
  8. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    4,203
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Didn't he also said the way to a man is to get through his p**y? This is to indicate he will kill Rick's girl to make him submit
     
    blackjack likes this.
  9. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,572
    Likes Received:
    49,757
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    Yes.
    Yes, he said one way to get under a man's skin is through hurting a woman he loves.
     
    Katbird likes this.
  10. balladsinthebluegrass

    balladsinthebluegrass Hold to things that are bright.
    Patron

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,943
    Likes Received:
    7,442
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    The fifth dimension
    Custom Banner
    Yes, the way he leaned waaaaay back struck me as very odd, too, and rather sexual, like (ugh) he was sticking his dick out or something. He seemed to really be getting off on what was going down in the LV scene.
     
    blackjack likes this.
  11. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,946
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Do you think that Negan picked up on Michonne? She risked her life to try to save Rick's son. Maybe he is just saving her for a later day.
    MC had an interview in which he said that Negan wasn't playing with choosing a victim, that he knew exactly who he was going to kill but he wanted to suss out who was who and their relationship to Rick.

    Also, he knew a hell of a lot about Rick.
    • This must be hard for you, right? I mean, you have been King shit for so long."
    • "Then Carl dies, then the people back home die... and then you, eventually."

    Where is he getting this info?

    Dwight knew Daryl from the forest and Abe, Eugene and Rosita from the railway track and everyone at Hilltop knew Rick, Michonne, Maggie, Glenn, Daryl and Abe...

    Only someone who has been to ASZ would know about Carl since he refused to go to Hilltop.
     
    #31 Barbarossa-TWD, Oct 26, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  12. balladsinthebluegrass

    balladsinthebluegrass Hold to things that are bright.
    Patron

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,943
    Likes Received:
    7,442
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    The fifth dimension
    Custom Banner
    When Michonne started pleading for Carl, I was so scared it would tip Negan off. God knows what he would have done to Michonne if he had figured it out.
     
  13. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,572
    Likes Received:
    49,757
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    While it's possible Negan knows about Rick and Michonne's connection, I don't think it will play into the plot yet. (He may also not know at all.)
     
  14. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,946
    Walker Pets:
    113
    "Yet"... Negan is not going to show all of his cards upfront, but he is not stupid. This is why he was toying with them to see their reactions.
     
    Katbird likes this.
  15. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,123
    Likes Received:
    3,946
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Dwight: Do you want me to do it? Right here. [Grunting]
    Negan: No. No, you don't kill them... not until you try a little. [Grunting] And anyway... that's not how it works.

    Read more at: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29246
    What the hell does this mean "not until you try a little"? Here we see another man that Negan has emasculated. JDM said in an interview that Negan could have easily killed Rick but he sees the potential in Rick working for him. So what's up with Dwight???
     
  16. Lilly965

    Lilly965 Wig Shopping For Michonne
    Patron

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    5,461
    Walker Pets:
    113
    I'm sorry but Negan 100% knows that Richonne is a couple, it was plain to see.

    The looks he was giving Michonne were kinda like 'look what I've done to your man'

    I am worried about what Negan might do/say to Michonne further in the season if anything.
     
    blackjack likes this.
  17. Philly Girl

    Philly Girl Awaiting Job from Deanna

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    2,343
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Your comment is on point, I totally agree. For me, after what I saw on Sunday I'm not sure how much of Negan's act I can take. I want him dead yesterday. Judgement day can't come soon enough.
     
    Cousin Peaches and MamaGrimes like this.
  18. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,572
    Likes Received:
    49,757
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    I don't know if he knows yet or not. I think he knows there's something, but I think we'll have to wait and see how they interact in 704.
     
    balladsinthebluegrass likes this.
  19. Philly Girl

    Philly Girl Awaiting Job from Deanna

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2016
    Messages:
    717
    Likes Received:
    2,343
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Carl is GANGSTA! Carl is the MVP of the clearing scene. He never let this bastard see him sweat. And telling his Dad to just do it, he was trying to help Rick, ease his guilt and pain as much as he could since he knew that whatever Negan wanted was going to happen. Rick's begging just excited Negan more. Carl wanted to shut that shit down asap.
     
    QueenofPeace and lovingdead like this.
  20. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
    Patron

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    8,114
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Under Abe's do- rag
    Custom Banner
    I was VERY confused with this line. Anyone know what he means? I thought he meant not until you've killed someone but Dwight already has. So what is Negan talking about here?