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Live Viewing "No Way Out" (6x09) Live Viewing Thread

Discussion in '6x09: No Way Out' started by Doctor Grimes, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Bazooka Jane

    Bazooka Jane On a pirate ship
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    Can we just appreciate how instead of just having Andy carry Chandler, they gave him a dummy? I imagine they were just like "Andy will fucking drop him if he has to run with a human being, we need a dummy!"
     
  2. tuswig

    tuswig Bitch Slayer

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    I saw alot of this on social media too, "Ok, Jessie is gone so this now opens the door for Richonne" Excuse me?!? It was ALWAYS Richonne long before Jessie (who was a temporary detour). This has been my fear for quite some time now, Michonne looking like she is the second choice....the rebound. SG has disappointed me on so many levels in regards to this show but he always did right by Richonne....now??? I don't think I trust him anymore to do it justice.
     
  3. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    This is essentially how I feel. It's just sort of blah unromantic whatever to me now. I guess I am fine with it happening as a plot development, but it's not going to ~mean~ anything. It'll just be convenience for them both. There is no love there. No ~real~ love. Just survival and comfort. They can both settle for one another.
     
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  4. Silas

    Silas Beloved Side Piece
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    Well, I didn't check the internet once after the episode ended. I wanted time to think it all through and I've finally caught up on some of this thread. Excuse me if I ramble because this is the first time I've really put my thoughts into words.

    1. Sam. I can't believe they made him hear Carol's story in his head. When I watched that I just laughed knowing fandom would have a field day with it. Is she to blame? Are the walkers to blame? Jessie? The baby Jesus? The ants who ate his cookies??? I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer and it's not like Carol is going to know Sam heard her story. So I don't know. I don't blame 'em for letting Sam continue on, he'd made it through a lot of the herd already and kept his little ass in check. I thought the walker kid was going to be what done him in, but it seems it was that in conjunction with Carol's words. Why he started hearing Carol's words so late in the walking-through-the-herd-game is something only Gimple knows.

    2. Speaking of how long they walked through the herd....ASZ ain't that big. The sun was shining high in the sky when Gabriel took Judith and suddenly it's night time when the chop happens? Were they just walking in circles for shits and giggles? No wonder Sam went crazy.

    3. Gabriel tickled me pink but I've been in his corner for a while. Eugene still annoyed me. Sasha and Abe have as much chemistry as I do with used toilet paper. Carol is slipping and I'm kinda tired of it. I actually enjoyed Rosita. She was about the only person in that house I could tolerate because she was actually thinking things through.

    4. The chop. I wasn't expecting the corny flashbacks. But I can't say I'm surprised Gimple decided that moment was the perfect moment to lay it on thick and try something new with the directing of the episode because they always manage to screw up the good stuff. But, at least it's over. I've thought for a long time that Rick went after Jessie because he wanted to want those things. Hope, belief, "something more", blah blah, yadda yadda yadda. He didn't really think it was possible, he wanted to. When they were in the garage she asked him if there was more, he couldn't say it because he didn't believe I don't think, so he smooched her because he wanted to believe it even though he couldn't say it. Then blondie gets eaten and Rick's like oh shit, there goes that idea. I've always thought they used each other as a crutch and had it lasted it would've been a very half assed codependent relationship. But, Rick found his hope and belief without her at the end of the episode. That means going forward he'll be a healthier man when Richonne starts to go in that direction. He won't be using Michonne like a can of fix-a-flat, trying to air his head up with shit he wants to believe. He'll be there because finally he actually believes it's possible to have more in the world, something he learned on his own. Jessie represented all the things he wanted to want. Michonne will because he actually wants her, not the idea of her. He won't be using her to convince himself more is possible. Anyway I won't blab anymore. Were the flashblacks necessary? Nah. But it's said and done and I, personally, think it ended in a good place even if the journey was garbage. Rick's finally ready to move forward in a healthy way.

    5. Richonne. I see a lot of debate about how/when/will. I still believe without a doubt it'll go there. There might be some conflict there, rightfully so. But I don't think a few seconds of flashbacks changes the end goal. Even Gimple said they were pretty much experimental. I don't see Michonne hooking up with Spencer though. Even if she were (and that's a big ole IF) it would depend on the circumstances of the hook up before I passed judgement. If it was a fling (hey - we all got needs), I wouldn't say shit. People have casual sex. If she took him seriously as a person and developed true warm and fuzzies, I'd throw my shoe at the TV because Michonne isn't that dumb. I do think there's a chance Michonne could pursue Rick first and like in the comics, something goes wrong there. But we'll see. That's all we can do.

    Overall the episode had crap parts, just plain bad parts, and some good parts. I think it ended on a good note for what to expect going forward though.
     
  5. Bazooka Jane

    Bazooka Jane On a pirate ship
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    The way I see it is that the media was running with Richonne until latter-5B with Jessick. They took it all at face value (probably easy for them to do since AB looks the conventional love interest more than DG #youknowwhy), but even at face value Jessick was weirdly constructed, so the response was tepid but they assumed it was happening (all the while making note about how Richonne made more sense in many cases). Now it absolutely is NOT happening, and they are like "OH! Well, then back to the original Richonne plan, right?" In essence, they are recognizing that Jessick was a speed bump, not a brick wall, for what everyone assumed was happening in the first place aka Richonne. And I feel like this was going to be the reaction regardless of any Red Rum Jessie montages, so I'm unbothered.
     
  6. Lyra_Nation

    Lyra_Nation Young, scrappy, and hungry
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    I think it's impossible for Michonne to be "second choice". I don't know if they're doing Richonne at this point, I don't know when they're doing Richonne, and I'm not even interested in Rick right now but IT. IS. IMPOSSIBLE for Michonne to be seen as second choice. Only people with an agenda will say something like that after Richonne happens - if it happens.

    It's impossible simply because Michonne herself is such an important character and people are going to accept it as the meant-to-be relationship. If they get together, they're not going to be half-assed settling. They're going to be "in it" because it's going to be the main relationship. So the "second choice" thing is silly.
     
  7. Mousey

    Mousey Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    This was something I used to be wary about because of bad Jessick writing, but since she's finally off the table, there's nothing there that makes me fear Michonne will be cast in the light of a second choice, leftovers, and all the other ways you can phrase it. @Lyra_Verse is totally right about only people who were dead-set against them from the start feeling that way, since there's jack shit to support it from Jessick as we saw it.
     
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  8. saga

    saga Watchtower Sniper
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    No he's not. He's not even the voice of the showrunners/directors/producers.

    He's the voice of AMC. He's absolutely 100% the voice of the network. And we all know what people in the filmmaking business think of the nonartists in the network offices.

    Professional reviewers see the show in advance and get this, that, and the other from networks, which is how they remain professional reviewers. They're towing the party line so they can keep having access and not piss off the PTB in their own job by alienating the PTBs of the networks.

    And I said before on here (well, the OTHER site LOL) many times how I feel about the "second choice" thing. It (sorry, but the truth) strikes me as kind of teenage-angsty-high-school-boyfriend-girlfriend shit. Nobody here had a previous partner before their current partner? Divorced? Widowed? Remarried? Sorry if that's offensive or if anyone here is actually in high school still. But it really does feel like teen drama.

    If they jump from this right into Richonne, it won't help that perspective, though. The moment at the bedside with Carl felt like a cleansing one for Rick (yeah, crystal jokes commence now LOL) and I have no doubt that Crazy!Rick is no longer on the show. He's Leader!Rick.



    Eh. Maybe I'm just so glad that she's gone that I've no energy for the salt raining on my parade. LOL Sorry 'bout that. Salt away. If anyone's earned it, you have. <<hugs>>
     
    #848 saga, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  9. Triponsynth

    Triponsynth Watchtower Sniper
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    I don't see how Michonne could be second choice or pathetic either. If anything Jessie was the rebound. Plus the fact that he is looking forward to the future after Jessie's death tells me it wasn't that serous so I can't get worked up about this.
     
  10. Bazooka Jane

    Bazooka Jane On a pirate ship
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    AV Club's review killed me:
    Link: http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/walking-dead-returns-and-everything-works-out-ever-232232

    Not here for that Carol dig but otherwise: YES, EXACTLY. I'm still amazing at how hilarious the execution their death was.
     
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  11. walkinggirl26

    walkinggirl26 Rick's Right-Hand Woman
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    IA. I really can't see them having sex, but he can flirt, have a crush on her, follow her around like a puppy, drop by the house and Michonne having to shut him down but not before Rick is like wth? I still think there's a reason that Michonne didn't get with Ty or Morgan and Rick didn't have sex with the owl lady. He had his fling or whatever you want to call it, let her have hers and then let's move on with them both realizing that they are each other's person and have been for some time now.
     
  12. Mousey

    Mousey Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I usually hate their reviews but it was pretty damn on-target this week. The "who cares" question is exactly why we got that montage, and it didn't even help, but it's over and done with and now we're on to far better and brighter material!
     
  13. walkinggirl26

    walkinggirl26 Rick's Right-Hand Woman
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    Exactly. She should have taken her two kids and went with FG. If Sam earlier was calling out for her and they miraculously made it through -- which btw they didn't even revisit, wth? -- how did you think he was going to make it all the way to the quarry through hundreds and hundreds of walkers without incident? Some of those walkers were really gnarly that I would have been afraid of them let alone an already traumatized eight-year-old kid with Carol's words ringing in his head.

    I was glad to hear GN say it as well, and nobody was crying tears for Jblah but CH, which was kind of funny. Even CU said, yeah, they were pretty much dead meat. But just once again it showed that she didn't put her kids first, not with flirting and kissing Rick and telling Ron that the new crazy dude in town that blew her husband's head off in front of her was her friend and ignoring that both of her boys are not doing well at all, and instead of trying to help them, get them some help -- hello, you've got a psychiatrist in the 'hood! -- she just ignores it and continues making owl sculptures.

    Yep, she sealed the Andersons fate as soon as she knocked on Rick's door and offered her services. But Rick was looking pretty yummy when he opened that door, so her common sense flew out the window and she went with her hormones, and that never ends well and didn't end well for her and her kids in a big way. All kind of red flags should have been going off, and she should have looked at his interview video. That would have been enough to send her running in the other direction as fast as her owl legs could carry her, lol!

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. walkinggirl26

    walkinggirl26 Rick's Right-Hand Woman
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    And AL on the video on TTD focused on Carl and not that he was so broken up over what he had to do to Jessie. I think he's moved on with his bedside talk to Carl and saying that he is feeling something that he hasn't felt since before he woke up in the hospital and that was hope and the new world that they're in now. So he wasn't weeping and gnashing teeth over Messie Anderson, didn't even mention her, and he doesn't have his ring on in the next episode. All of these are good signs to me that we're getting sane Rick back -- well, as sane as Rick can get, lol! But IA, we shouldn't have to scour interviews or watch TTD or through osmosis try to figure out what the heck is going on with him or any of the characters for that matter, but especially Rick from the latter half of 5b going forward. He was all over the map, and we need some kind of explanation, just a line, a scene, something that would put it to rest and then move on. Not just a time jump and everything that happened before has been forgotten and never mentioned again.
     
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  15. rlsatk

    rlsatk Den Mother

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    Yeah. Gimple is not a good show runner. His whole "reinventing" the show every 8 episodes is a mess, it just rehashing the same old thing every 8 episodes. All that build up for the wolves and then all we got was two episodes with them, Conquer and JSS, with one of them left behind. WTF was the point of the wolves? What did they do? How were they brain washed?? He's already over hyping Negan. Now Negan might live up to the build up, but they need to calm the fuck down. 6a with Messick arc and the compressed timeline was a disaster. And overall I was underwhelmed by the MSP. I wish he'd stop focusing on the artsy, self indulgent, gimmicky shit and focus on the characters
     
  16. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
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    Especially since it fails 99% of the time and it's at the expense of things the show truly needs(better dialogue, character interaction, etc).
     
  17. rlsatk

    rlsatk Den Mother

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    I agree. Michonne is her own character, she has her own identity outside of the Grimes boys. She's not going to be referred to as Rick's "Love Interest" which was Jessie identity, her only purpose was to serve his s/l, to make you hate him or pity him. Except for Jessick shippers, no one considers Jessie Anderson 'the great love of his life'. He wasn't in love with her, he was infatuated and yeah he cared about her ... but this is not the same as being in love. His focus is on his kid now, and rebuilding the community where his children can grow up. Rick didn't seem broken by her death, like he was with Lori. His priority, his focus, his hope and his love was for his son.

    I still think Richonne is happening this season. And given what little we've seen of Rick after the time jump, he doesn't seem like a man who's floundering or confused or heartsick like he was from 5.13 to 6.09. "Lighter" Rick as Andy puts it, I'm looking forward to that.
     
    #857 rlsatk, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
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  18. rlsatk

    rlsatk Den Mother

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  19. CordeliaMathews

    CordeliaMathews Babysitting Judith

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    I was only slightly salty to begin with, but watching it over again I actually don't have a problem with the chop scene. Rick freezes and begins to get upset when Sam gets bit. Jessie is screaming for help, and Rick is just unresponsive. Carl is the one who pleads with Jessie to keep going. He doesn't take the time with the chop because he is debating it, but because he is still frozen. He doesn't appear to hear Carl screaming at first just like he didn't hear Jessie. Once he acknowledges that Carl is in danger, he immediatly switches to rage mode and chops her arm off. He remains lucid from this point on. After Michonne kills Ron he looks at her with gratitude and relief. He looks like he is about to say something (perhaps a thank you or come on, let's go) but then Carl calls for him and his focus shifts completely to his son.

    If the show wanted to emphasize the connection between Rick and Jessie several things would have been done differently.

    1. He would have showed her some sign of affection before the chop. She seemed to be trying to comfort him, but he did not reciprocate. Their was no couple moment.

    2. He would have responded to her screaming, perhaps pleaded with her the way she was pleading with Sam. They could have saved him freezing as a reaction to her being bitten instead of Sam if they wanted to emphasize their connection. The fact that he froze and began crying at seeing a child eaten alive suggests that his reaction has more to do with the horror of the situation then any deep connection to the individuals involved, as Rick only saw Sam once for two minutes at the party. He only woke up from his frozen state when Carl needed him.

    3. The montage could have showed moments where they actually bonded/acted romantic. instead the "montage" was simply used to contrast what was going on in Rick's head before vs. During the chop. First she appeared innocent in his head, and then she turned red when he went into a rage.

    So really the absolute minimum was done in order to make the chop dramatic. I think the main reason people got salty is because we had our hopes up for more Richonne scenes in this part of the arc and we were ready to celebrate the chop so we wanted it to feel like a happy scene. No matter how annoying she was, Jessie was still an innocent. For Rick to act like he cared about her and then not react to her death would be sociopathic.

    As far as Richonne goes, I personally am kind of glad that The formation of Richonne is not following Rickandrea to the letter, and that Richonne will be beginning from a place of Rick being back to himself.
     
  20. cupsofmarmalade

    cupsofmarmalade Searching for Sophia

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    This is going to be quite mocking, but here we go:

    1. TV: *recaps previous episode and ends with Sam calling for his mom*
      Me: *geared to get straight to the Sam/Anderson situation*
      TV: *Abe and crew*
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      Abe and Sasha now have some psychic link thing going on…
      [​IMG]
      TV: *Saviours get blown up* Abe, Sasha and Daryl are like
      [​IMG]
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      I'm probably being a bit picky here. I know this is the ZA and they’ve faced a lot, but they just seemed way too chilled. And are you telling me that all these well-armed badass dudes were so focused on two unarmed people that they failed to notice their friend fighting and then lying dead at the back? And that guy didn't try and shoot Daryl during the fight? All muscles and no brains I guess.
    2. TV: *Walking through a field of walkers* Mom? What Mom?
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      TV: (Rick) New plan…
      Me: Boy Jessie is going to be so great. She’s had so much growth since 5B, you know. Totally proven herself. If there’s a plan, her, her kids and Father G are the ones to go to man. Fuck Michonne, she can be on watch duty whilst the triad have their conference.
      TV: (Jessie) Okay, but Judith
      Me:
      [​IMG] [​IMG]
      Why's this woman the one thinking about Judith?
      TV: (Father G) I’ll take her…
      Me: You go Gabriel! I'm not being sarcastic
      TV: (Michonne to Father G) Can you do it?
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      ….You’re not part of the golden circle (literally) of whatever that shit on screen is.
      TV: (Jessie) Oh wait, I have a kid!
      TV: (Sam) No, I’m not leaving you…. I can keep going.
      Me: Were they handing out bravery pills during the hiatus?
      [​IMG]

      TV: (Father G) Anyways... so back to Judith people
      Me: Thank you!
      TV: (Jessie to Rick) He’s going to make it, okay.
      Me:
      [​IMG]
    3. TV: *Follow up on Carol and Morgan*
      Me:
      [​IMG]
    4. TV: *Goes to Denise and the wolf*
      Me:
      [​IMG]
    5. TV: *Glenn and Enid*
      Me: *waiting for Enid to whine or talk about herself*
      TV: (Enid) When I wanted to run…
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      TV: (Enid) Who are those people to you?
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      Well lets see; Glenn came to ASZ with his parents, siblings, grandparents, uncles, aunts, high school friends… did I leave anyone out?
      TV: *Glenn starts with the sermon* My parents….
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      TV: (Glenn) A man named Dale, Maggie’s father Hershel, a woman named Andrea, a man named Tyreese.
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      TV: (Glenn) who are they to you?
      Me: It’s nice to hear those people’s names again but-but-
      [​IMG]

      *Starts writing letter to Gimple and co*

      Dear writers, we do not watch this show for red shirts. Can you please start focusing on the main cast instead of sacrificing their screen time to individuals that we care nothing about because they’re irrelevant. And because we don’t care for them, like we do the main cast, it doesn’t really work when one of them gets kidnapped by a psycho because you know…we don’t care about them. Oh and when one of them is going through angst, it’s really hard to sympathise. Especially when they’ve turned one of the mains, that we do care about, into a constant sermon and motivational mumbo jumbo spewing person thing. Thank you.
    6. TV: *Everything else involving Glenn and Enid in the church, and Denise with the wolf*
      Me: Twinkle twinkle little star, how I wonder what you are. Up above the world so...
    7. TV: *walking through the field of walkers*
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      Me: Either ASZ is really big or night time falls really fast there.
      TV: (Carol voice over) And they will tear you apart and eat you…
      Me: Whelp! Looks like those bravery pills are going to shit.
      TV: *Jessie’s reaction, Rick’s reaction, Ron joining in and everybody else just looking on*
      Me: Really guys? Really?
      TV: *Walkers get on Sam*
      TV: *Walkers get on Jessie*
      Me: And the awards for the most boring deaths go to….
      TV: *Rick’s reaction and the montage*
      Me:
      [​IMG]
      In conclusion: The moral of the story is…
      [​IMG]

    I’m just glad citrus queen is dead tbh, though it was bland AF. May she never be mentioned again, and from this day forth may no owl sculptures ever grace our screens. May Rick be returned to us and may Michonne get some love…Because that 6A bio needs to be fulfilled at some point. I'll read this thread properly later.
     
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