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Okay, so I've been salty about Carol...

Discussion in '6x15: East' started by Doctor Grimes, Mar 27, 2016.

  1. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    It's no secret I've been salty about the amount of screen time Carol has gotten recently. Others around here have noticed. Others have certainly felt the same. I've described this feeling as one analogous to being the least-favored sibling in a household. You see the parents (Gimple/AMC) shower the favorite (Carol) with all sorts of presents and love (screen time) while the other kids (Glenn, Carl, Sasha, etc.) look on with doe eyes. Resentment, bitterness, pettiness -- all these feelings are only natural as fans who are defensive of those characters.

    A lot of what we feel isn't so much anger and ire at Carol herself for this (although disliking her current arc or her character in general could go hand-in-hand with this as well, I don't discount that); it's clearly the fault of Gimple for improperly balancing attention and affection. However, resentment and side-eye bleeding onto the object of that affection (Carol) is just a human emotion, as irrational as that can be. Just like the least-favored sibling, while you still may even love mom/dad's "golden child", you're going to feel some sort of way about being the one left out in the cold. The one who gets the lump of coal in their stocking. That will affect how you feel about the favored sibling -- even against will.

    However, let's look at it from this perspective: as Gimple's favorite, Carol has been saddled with a repetitive arc and constant misery. It's unpleasant to watch even from a Carol fan's perspective because she's been stuck in this horrible spin-cycle.

    That isn't something I want for any of these characters. Let alone Carol. It has been agonizing to watch her move from depressive cycle to the next without any relief. Without any happiness. Without any breakthrough.

    I do love Carol. I love her journey, I love her character, I love what she represents, what she means for this show, what she has imparted to this show.

    ... Yet still, I have let saltiness over the screen time (the favoritism) cloud my judgment in a lot of ways. Building up this bitterness and spite I carry against her, even when it's not her fault.

    When I think about it, I don't want this for anyone. Not for Carol, not for Glenn, not Rick, not Michonne, no one.

    Gimple is to blame for not only making the fandom lash out against Carol for something that isn't even her fault (screen time/attention), but also making his "favorite" character miserable enough that she felt compelled to leave her home.

    It's a no win scenario -- however you look at it.

    So, speaking for myself, I need to chill about the whole thing, because while I am admittedly bent about the fact Carl and Glenn keep getting shoved into a margin to hone the spotlight on "The Carol Show", I also acknowledge this isn't exactly benefiting Carol either.

    All it is doing is showing Gimple's weaknesses as a showrunner and dividing this fandom even further, and making me feel negativity about a character I do care about (even though it's hard for me to say that right now). What's happening to Carol is awful, and I want to focus on that more without also thinking about how my other favorite characters are getting slighted.

    Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but it felt necessary to say.
     
  2. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    I share the same feeling. I'm upset that Carol is dominating majority of the screen time, but I don't want her to be dominating all my conversations about TWD. So I'm just gonna have to take a step back, watch the finale, gather my feelings and say my peace and move on from there. I already know I'm in it for the long haul.
     
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  3. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Yeah I am trying to stop letting it affect my enjoyment of her character. It's really not her fault, and quite honestly? I wouldn't wish this arc on any of the characters -- let alone one I love. I am agonized Carol is saddled with this.
     
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  4. LunaFall

    LunaFall Nabila went all Hershel on us
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    The Comic Michonne arc that she seems to be getting is an arc I wouldn't wish on any character... even Daryl.
    Carol's had a rough go before the apocalypse even started and it just hasn't let up. I want her to find happiness... I want everyone to find some semblance of happiness... even Daryl (though currently, I want him to get kissed by a baseball bat)
     
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  5. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I don't hate Carol. She has just turn into a repetitive and boring character to me. I don't want her dead, I just want less screen time and better, more interesting story for her.
     
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  6. LaToya78

    LaToya78 Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    I want both Daryl and Carol sidelined after this season or in the last episode
     
    #6 LaToya78, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
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  7. cgomes

    cgomes Ricktator
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    Yeah, Gimple's decisions aren't helping much.

    I'm done with all of the screen time and "superhero" Carol, but if we stop and see, it's really too sad, because, more than anything, it's also serving to ruin her own character.. It's not something good for Carol what they are doing, if they think it is.

    It's just making her become each day less interesting, more inconsistent and unrealistic. It's making people get tired of her/her story. I'm am. I used to feel sorry for her and understand her reasons, now I'm just like, whatever. And that's not cool. I also wouldn't want that for any of the others. She gets a lot of attention, but it's always the same, so, it's really hard to take it all seriously.

    I just hope there's a bigger purpose for that, and next season things can get more balanced. I still believe all this is because she'll be totally separated from the group and everything else... but maybe it's not the right time to do it. Anyway, I know most of it probably won't change, I mean, I don't even know if they'll make something different for her. I don't want to hate her or anything, I'm feeling absolutely indifferent right now, so I just won't care anymore.

    I guess the secret is to focus only on the good things that really make me like this show so I can enjoy it more, and that's it.
     
    #7 cgomes, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  8. Armte

    Armte Schadenfreude is my Aesthetic
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    Appetence asked me earlier how I was doing and I told her I am fine now because I decided to focus on richonne. Superhero Carol is here to stay as long as she is alive and a teachers pet. I will just try to ignore her now like I do Daryl. Unfortunately it is harder to ignore her than Daryl because main characters have to be assassinated story wise in order for her to thrive. If you are a fan of other females you are screwed as long as she is on TWD when it comes to female character development. Tonight and what happened to Rick and the words that were made to come out of his mouth on the greatness of Carol finished me. I hate the character now. Just like this forum has a bunch of darcille enthusiasts, I feel the same way about Carol. There is nothing that can make some folks like Daryl. Well that's how I feel about her, it is what it is Viva la richonne!
     
  9. Ship Verse

    Ship Verse I.D.G.A.F.
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    If I may add a testimonial (or rant or a bit of pontification)... only to help relieve some of the stress I have been feeling for the past 36 hours. I would put this on tumblr but it would just start a back and forth that I'm not quite ready for.

    I never "loved" Carol, but I never "hated" Carol. Until now. It is not so much the idea of Carol, the character of Carol or anything like that, but it is the residual effects of Carol and the boisterous stans that come with it. Every character has their stans, this I know, but it is annoying when it is shoved down my throat by the media, and then in episodes like tonight it is validated by the writers. Not that Carol was wrong or right, but removing all doubt about a clear topic that was supposed to be rooted in moral ambiguity, one of the things which make the show so captivating. I was fine when Rick said, if it was now I would have not kicked her out. I was peeved when he admitted that back then he was wrong because I don't think he was. I think it would have been easy to just say "I regret it". That he would not do it over because of what he knows now, but not that he is wrong. You work with what you know. Killing Karen and David, specifically Karen who had someone who cared about her in a slick sly way was wrong. If they were to die in quarantine, Tyreese had a right to say goodbye properly, through glass doors or wood doors or letters or whatever. It was wrong. If Glenn was to be one of the first ones to get sick, would she have burned him so easily? Would it have been wrong then? That's the point in moral ambiguity. You should question what you would do. Then I forgave her for it. Her thought process was "protect mine" and I understood her for it. It really should have just ended there. Karen and David was a Carol and Tyreese issue. Her banishment was a Rick issue that was pretty much solved after Terminus and then especially after Grady. So I basically could not listen to Rick or Morgan the entire episode. I could not appreciate any moment they spent together because it was not about the man that found Rick. It was not about Morgan who searched all over for Rick. It wasn't about why he did that. It wasn't about how Morgan became to be "ALP", it was about Carol. Now Carol is the tie between Rick and Morgan, when it never was that? It annoyed me when Rick snitched on Michonne about the protein bar, I really couldn't laugh because it was supposed to be a peace offering quip but it fell flat. Why should Morgan care? They have not had a relationship since he arrived. This entire trip was an "I know Carol better than you". Why do this? Instead of just having two old acquaintances really catch up on their differences there was no breakthrough, it was just Rick you get back to your kids, and I'll keep going, oh and protein bar because that is the last thing that connects us two that's not Carol.

    Back to Carol. She is stuck in the spin cycle as well. She does not want to kill anymore, I rather like this new development, yet we decide to put her immediately in the face of killing again. Instead of letting her go, just go and then end here for her in 6 we have to travel along the road, to see her actually manage some weird semiautomatic gun sleeve thing, killing all these saviors, and magically getting away again. Not that I wanted her to die here, but it was over the top. In an episode where we highlighted her not wanting to kill, focused on it, we just rehashed it again for the bulk of the episode. I will get to Glenn and Michonne later, but it was such a huge fuck you to Carl, I almost wanted to cry for Chandler. There is no way that the one scene of him holding a gun was the best they could do. There has been no focus on him at all. His eye was a catalyst for Rick angst, that is it. His eye has never been about him. Instead of showing me Carol once again doing over the top Carol things, I could not get one conversation with Carl and his Dad, with Carl and Michonne, with Carl and Rosita or Daryl about what happened to Denise, or Father Gabriel, or Enid or literally anyone. They will save it all, if anything for the finale and how the hell is that fair to the actor or the character. I know more about Tobin's feelings about Carol than I do Carl's feelings about anything. I do not understand when they sit down do they list all the people that are still alive, do they just say this plot point needs to happen so we need to do this and that and that and this so xy and z can happen? Instead of looking at your characters and saying how is this person reacting to the new developments...? I have seen more Dwight than I have seen Carl. How is that fair?

    Then all mighty Lucille is coming with Glenn's name wrapped in a pretty bow and he is busy worrying about others instead of himself. Not one conversation to his wife about him having to kill, like it was no big deal for him, when we know it was eating him up inside. Not one conversation about how he was dead under a dumpster. Not one angsty scene of Maggie worrying about Glenn leaving those gates everyday because one time he really did not almost make it back. I thought the letter Carol left was sufficient in letting me know she was gone, seeing her pack up, did nothing for me. Instead why not show Glenn there or Carl there? Why turn one of your fiercest killers, into a lame duck literally every time? The point of Michonne is that she is lethal, as much as she is loving, yet balancing the two is like graduate level calculus for these writers. Do not get me wrong, I love the Richonne and it was high time they showed that part of Michonne, but why is it one or the other? They did not even give Michonne or Glenn a chance at a fight. As observant as Michonne is she would not notice about 10 saviors lurking? But Carol can take out the world with one firearm under her coat and it not catch fire or what not?

    What I mean to say that if this is it... if the show is Carol is right, Rick is wrong, kill him off. Write him off. Instead of it being sometimes one person is right, sometimes another is wrong, sometimes you kill, sometimes you don't, somethings are good, somethings are bad. If Carol is "taking over the Kingdom" although nothing in her character gives me the idea that she would want to run a community, but she is 'Killer Queen' destined for hurt and anguish and a bottle episode every season including a significant amount of focus when every one else is twiddling their thumbs, just end it. Let her kill Negan, let her take over the world and stop acting like you give a crap about anyone else. If everyone is going to be sidelined, I rather you keep the scraps of shit and focus on what you want to focus on. Carol was a great character until she too has become a caricature of herself and honestly I don't care anymore.

    I have little hope for 7 and I am going to stop talking about Carol after this because the stans that come with it are not worth it. I mean there are some great people in the Carol fandom that love her character, that love where she is going or are critical of where she is going and I appreciate those people, but for the sake of my sanity I have to block everyone that says even an inkling of stupid shit coming at Rick or Michonne, or Glenn, who won't even listen to the clear favoritism she receives. I'm not talking honest criticism, but stupid shit. I don't care if its not directed at me, blocked. From now on I will be watching the Walking Dead actively ignoring anything that has to do with Carol, which in an extension will be Morgan as well. I just don't care, until they give me something to care about. I resent when things are shoved in my face, and I can be real about that. I was so angry the past couple of hours with everything and how is that cool? How when I have to deal with racism and misogyny in the fandom everyday, and still my favorite show adds fuel to the bullshit, it should not be this stressful. I resent this mess because it is a detriment to almost every other female on this show, and your main character. I don't want to apologize for being a Rick fan. It doesn't make me sexist. I don't want to apologize for raising concerns about character thatis being highly favored over others no matter how much you don't like the story she is getting most of it, and somehow it still comes down to her even when she isn't there. So I mean with this last sentence, and hopefully this is the last sentence and all the salt effectively leaves my veins, I can finally just say that I'm over it.


    (sorry for the long ramble).
     
    #9 Ship Verse, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  10. Clutterbuck

    Clutterbuck Finding Bigfoot™
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    [​IMG]

    My tolerance has been exceeded. I never liked her constant misery and I wanted it to end. Now Gimple is throwing other characters in the dirt to prop her up and making her Holy Queen of the ZA. And for what? Why? This isn't interesting. She's getting two extremes; misery and the rambo bullshit. I made a place next to Daryl for her in the sense that I just don't want to look at either of them, I'm done. The dislike I have for them is obviously very different but in the end it amounts to the same basic feeling.
     
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  11. rlsatk

    rlsatk Den Mother

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    I'm still extremely salty but there's no point on dwelling on it. It is what it is as long as Gimple's running this show. I will have to find someway to make peace with it. Perhaps I will over the hiatus. You're right Doc, her character has been stuck in a horrible loop, doing the same thing over and over which is making her miserable, I wouldn't want that for any of my favs. I hope Gimple can come to his senses and see he's ruining his pet character.
     
  12. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    This. ALL OF THIS.
     
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  13. Iguessiamhere

    Iguessiamhere Survivor of Many Disasters
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    I felt this in my soul. You wrote a lot of things I probably couldn't articulate. Thank you.
    tumblr_inline_o1y9o8VX0t1sqfsm2_500.gif

    tumblr_natp0p22g11sotuj5o1_500.gif
     
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  14. Lugubria

    Lugubria Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    For me, I think the salt is abating. She's there and that's that. Thankfully, there's more to the show above and beyond Carol and I'm getting a lot of joy out of that. Letting her character siphon that away would be giving her, but really, Gimple, too much power. I've got my two favourite characters happy, at peace, and in love, and I couldn't be happier for them and for me. I'm going to take a step, or ten, back and appreciate what works for me. And relentless misery porn isn't it.
     
  15. rlsatk

    rlsatk Den Mother

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    Perfectly said.
     
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  16. Misty Knight

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    You posted everything I've been thinking about that particular character.
    [​IMG]

    As for the show in general, I'm so tired of constantly raging, people probably think I'm a hateful bitch. I need to lower my expectations for this show or stop watching because the little bit of Richonne scenes we do get is not helping curb my anger. And being angry all of the time is not healthy.
     
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  17. Nightmare

    Nightmare FAIRY PRINCESS♚
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    I can understand people's ire about it and I do agree to some extent that Carol is getting so much spotlight over other characters. I'd love for Michonne and Carl to have more screentime, as well as Aaron because I really like him.

    But at the same time, I love Carol, I love her development, her character, so I can honestly never truly be salty or annoyed at her screentime, she's one of my favorite characters after all. I can only be salty about the others not getting any, but Carol does not deserve to be bashed over it, it's not her fault.

    Again, I can even understand the favorite child argument. I was in the position as the favorite child in my family and my older sister often had it out for me because of it. Was that fair to take it out on me for it? No, its wrong, because it's not my fault. Eventually, it was realized the fault lied with the parent, our parents, not me, the sibling.

    So It's like you're saying, if anyone is to blame, it's Gimple. Also, Carol can never catch a break, I feel if anything, she should be getting anger on behalf of how she's being treated by the story, not because she's in it too much.
     
    #17 Nightmare, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
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  18. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    Thanks for this thread Doc. Carol is in my top 4 favorites after Richonne and Carl but Gimple is making things difficult with his using her as a writer's playground. It does her character a disservice and it greatly diminishes our enjoyment of the show due to the exhorbitant amount of screentime spent on a character who has,sadly, become almost a caricature at this point. An automatic weapon sewn into a coat sleeve? Really Gimple? The Mad Max car? Go back to basics, son, and stop trying to skip right to your plot points.

    However 16 plays out, we're going to lose someone. And my greatest fear is that it's someone who may not have gotten the screentime they deserve for their farewell tour because we spent an episode watching Daryl and Carol make poor choices. My hope, as many of you know, is that we lose someone who has gotten a shit ton of screentime in 6b for their farewell tour. And that someone's name starts with D and ends with aryl.