Discussion in '7x06: Swear' started by Doctor Grimes, Nov 27, 2016.
He killed people with Glenn in the armory. They shot through the door and killed a bunch of Saviors
Heath and Tara were on a mission for Guns and food, Oceanside has both in abundance.
This reminds me of Rick's first conversation with Deanna and why she shouldn't let people in to Alexandria. In fact them first taking in Tara then taking her out to kill so that she won't tell their location is a direct call back to "Nebraska" Rick on the farm and what to do with Randall.
The first half of season 7 is like a review of all seasons and how they got there. They are hitting all of the pivotal points and the decisions that were made along the way.
Oceanside will definitely come back into view and it will be a quick judgement call if they will be friend or foe.
I think overall this is a good episode. I am just pissed that we have basically only seen Rick once (2 mins last episode) since the premiere. So I think there will be a lot of negative feelings because they are dragging out this so much.
He pretty much found the armory picked up machine guns and shot into a door with tons of people on the other side killing a bunch of people (3 or 4). He did it with Glenn but he was a part of it and I could see how that could affect him in the long run if he had never killed anyone before AND never encountered the horrors TF has seen on the road. Glenn had seen people's capacity to do evil (Terminus, Grady Memorial, Governor). Then he saw the smashed head photos on the wall. I don't think Heath had seen anything like that at all. No cannibals, no slavers, etc. So Heath was kind of blindsided by this level of brutality.
I gave it a 5. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but it didn't feel necessary to have it be a bottle episode. The only thing I really took away from this is:
Taking Negan on alone without a plan is a great risk and he will exact severe punishments
This is a group they could team up with along with the Hilltop and Kingdom to fight the Saviors
Also, this episodes reiterates the fact that I despise the children of the Walking Dead . I just can't bring myself to like any of them. Lol.
Agree 100% on this. I love the different story. Fleshing this world out. I love our mains, but this is important to me as well. I want to see lots of things! Will parts of the country be found or told they are not travelable? One thing always on my mind is did people have the time to make a decision to shut down the nuclear power plants, safely? Think of the movie The China Syndrome. Be interesting if something like this was at least addressed. I like shows that put in tiny details. Different ways of life will provide that.
I seen this news article today and I thought while watching this thinking imagine someone making it this long into the future of this world. The memories, the stories, the what ifs they would think of.
Also if you watch the making of video for this episode.. Alanna is adorable.
Surprisingly, this episode kept my attention.
I do like that we got more insight on the Saviors. They are not afraid to kill children. That was surprising. I want to know more about Oceanside. They are more interesting than the Saviors.
I do hate that they glossed over Tara finding out about Denise.
I do think this episode could have been a little condense to show more of the main gang.
I really like Tara. I've liked her since she was introduced as one of the Governor's puppets. I think part of my like for her is that Alanna is really pretty and has great eyebrows. [/shallow].
Seriously, though, many of the reasons I like Tara were showcased in this episode. I think she has a lot of heart. She has been shown to be stunned by the angry, murderous people she finds herself surrounded by through her journey, but she always manages to find someone to trust and befriend. I also think she's funny. (I was also annoyed with her at times, like when she told the Oceanside women about the massacre at the satellite station. This was necessary for plot, so the other woman could tell her she was wrong and they did not eliminate the threat, but I still thought it was a mistake to tell so much.)
So, how odd for me that I'm going with a 5 for this episode when I kind of had high hopes for it.
For one thing, I really don't see how Tara has her own extended episode and we don't witness her being told about the heartbreaking deaths of Denise, Glenn and Abe. I enjoyed Oceanside, but I would have easily accepted twenty minutes of Tara entering ASZ with a certain trepidation since that one Oceanside woman warned her that everyone she knows is probably dead already - and then learning that while they aren't all dead, two very important people in her life are dead, they were wrong about the Saviors being eliminated, and Rick and Aaron are on a run looking for supplies. I would have liked to see her face as she realized The Saviors took nearly everything from them, not just Denise, Glenn and Abe. It's possible Alanna couldn't handle that kind of scene, but she was given a bottle episode, so TPTB must have some confidence in her.
My other issue with the episode is that weird editing/flashback stuff they keep doing. I have a thing about flashbacks and telling stories out of sequence - it has to be handled really well for it to work for me and few people have that talent.
I just don't see why, for example, they showed Tara falling off that bridge when they did. Maybe I missed why that didn't happen sooner, but I assumed it was done to make us think Heath abandoned her at first, which is just silly. It reminded me of the s6 finale and the s7 premiere in many ways. It was more important to make the viewer think something happened for a short period of time than it was to tell the story in a way that made the viewer feel engaged. I was not sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to find out if Heath really abandoned Tara. If I had been unspoiled for the episode, I probably would have been sitting on the edge of my seat if the episode opened with Tara going over that bridge and I had no idea if she had survived and this was going to be Heath's episode. I think it would have made Rachel running up to her with that spear even more horrifying because we would have known it was Tara she was about to kill.
Oceanside. I really like this community. Their backstory is traumatic and I like that these women are dealing with Negan's brutality in an equally brutal way that they believe works for them. I like the actors, as well. Part of me wishes we had seen them sooner since I've felt a little irritated by the other new characters we've been introduced to. Cyndie was a stand out and I enjoyed watching her. I am so glad other people say she reminds them of Glenn.
Unfortunately, Oceanside reminds me too much of the Savior women we were introduced to in "The Same Boat". Maybe that's purposeful? I just kept thinking, these women would be so unique (for this show) if we hadn't seen them last season. I mean, they even dress similarly. But kudos to the writers for diversity here - I know the actress playing Cyndie is half-Black/half-Korean (please correct me if I'm wrong), so I was thinking: How does she have a White grandmother? And I think they missed an opportunity to replace the one Asian character they just killed off by making Cyndie's grandmother Korean. But, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief here since I would like these women to play a larger role on the show. I definitely prefer them over Hilltop and Sanctuary.
To be fair to TPTB, 7A must have been a real b*tch to have to plot and write. Introducing The Sanctuary, The Kingdom and Oceanside, as well as reintroducing Hilltop, could not have been easy. But I think they overestimated the viewers' patience by believing we would be okay with so many dedicated episodes to strangers. As Doc Grimes already noted, this episode could have been scattered throughout several episodes. (I happen to believe The Cell and The Well could also have been divided up into other episodes, though The Well was pretty good on its own.) There was nothing here that merited a bottle episode, especially since the one member of TF who lost so much while away didn't even get to shine when she returned to learn just how much she had lost.
A good 1 the worst episode of this season
I think Carol will kill the little girl
I enjoyed the episode. It wasn't bad and was nothing overly special. The dialogue felt natural for a change and I really liked the leader of the new group. Tara's jokes mostly fell flat which was sad because I've found her funny in the past. I like her new moral dilemma and I don't think she'll get away with keeping the new group a secret. Eugene was heartbreaking, as was Rosita, somebody hug them. I wish Heath hadn't gone MIA again, that seemed pointless. Otherwise I was pretty satisfied with what this episode established, even if I'd be perfectly happy with never seeing a bottle episode again. I gave it a 7.
Ohhhh that's riiiiiiight he did do that. I memberrrrrr (George Lopez voice)
Nah jp I guess I can sympathize a little bit
No Heath killed a few people. Rewatch the episode and you will see Heath and Glenn running from about 6 or 7 saviors, they jump into a room with a metal door and start firing through the metal door. They opened the door and all the saviors are dead, so it's probable that Heath shot at least one of them. He really is a spineless b*tch, if he keeps it up with his idea that it's morally wrong to kill people he'll end up dead.
LOL see my above post
I don't remember him killing anyone either.
EDIT: I read the posts where some mentioned he did kill people through that door.
I didn't give it a grade yet. I still have to watch from beginning to end.
Watch it again and go to the part after Glenn kills the second person to spare Heath from killing someone and then you'll see Glenn and Heath shoot trigger happy through a metal door. When they open it there is like 7 saviors dead so I mean chances are Heath hit at least one of them, if he didn't he needs some target practice.
At the end of the day, he agreed to the plan and went. He needs to Man tf up. Ive spent the entire season beggin for this man to live. He better make it worth it and being a spineless bastard doesnt deserve living to me LOL
I didn't hate it. I didn't love it. Not the worst we've seen this season (eyes on you 7x03) but far from a favorite. This will definitely be an episode that is skipped on a S7 rewatch.
I liked Tara a lot in this episode, I'll always enjoy her humor but Alana just doesn't have what it takes to carry an entire episode. I understand that it's important to have a bottle episode when introducing a new community/group and they did a great job showing us Oceanside for the first time, but Tara and Heath's story didn't need an entire episode.
Also - WHAT THE FUCK @ skipping over Tara finding out all the shit that when down while she was gone. Rude, TPTB, rude.
I'll give it a 5.
I gave it a 7, I liked the introduction of Oceanside and their tragic story, but this did not need to be a bottle episode. I get that they need to show us the new communities but I think it could be done in a better way. What we have learned about these 3 communities could have been put into a 90 minute episode.
Oh boy...this is a tough one. I love to love this show and I love handing out 8's, 9's, and 10's but I just can't do it for this one. I gave it a 6.
What I liked:
Oceanside as a functioning community of female survivors. These are women who have not given up and I love that they have an armory and that they're smart enough to live near a never ending food source and have basically run out of f*cks to give.
Rachel- This little girl is actually a much more accurate reflection of her world than Sam ever was. She watched all of the men and boys in her community get slaughtered and then was forced into servitude to murderers. That will 100% of the time screw with a kid's head and there will be a fight or flight mentality that simply takes over in order to help cope. Rachel has chosen to fight, just like Carl did in season 3. Is she mentally healthy? Of course not. But I wouldn't expect her to be after what she's gone through.
Cyndie - Love her character and the hope she represents. The hope we lost with Glenn's death. Fingers crossed we meet up with her again and she sticks around for a good long while.
More validation for Rick- I don't know what kind of milk Gimple is pouring into his Wheaties this season, but he is going out of his way to validate Rick's decision to bow to Negan's rule. This episode was basically: Reason #42 why your community is f*cked if Negan finds you. If you try to fight, if you try to resist The Saviors, ALL OF YOUR MEN DIE. All of your boys over 10 DIE.
Alexandria and Hilltop need to match Negan's manpower if they have any chance to beat them which is what we'll most likely see in 7b.
What I didn't like:
The shoehorned tension with the Heath/Tara flashback scenes. I wasn't stressed. I wasn't tense. I wasn't engaged enough. I think part of it is because I'm suffering bottle burn out and found the focus on them completely unnecessary. I'm also worried about the dropping ratings and am certain this episode is going to do nothing to turn them around.
The ending felt like it was slapped on with spackling paste which is ridiculous considering it was an extended episode. I loathe lazy writing and was left with a bit of a headache from gritting my teeth on this one.
6 days until we have a multi-character episode with multiple settings everyone! Woo hoo!
LOL, Yall are so hard on Heath.
Dude, Glenn went through way more shit than Heath has and he still chose to not kill people. I mean...we are talking about cannibals, a dictator chopping off the head of his father-in-law, a guy that lured him in to the woods and tried to kill him (Nicholas), another person's cowardice leading to the death of a friend (Noah). Glenn had seen the worst in humanity and still chose not to kill which is kind of crazy, but whatever. They went with that. LOL. And I never told Glenn to man up cause I loved his character (RIP Glenn). Hell, Rick was straight shooting people in the back with an AK and leaving them to get eaten while Glenn was trying to open up train cars for randoms during the No Sanctuary episode. Glenn knew what the deal was and he was still risking shit for others when it was definitely a kill or be killed situation.
If Glenn could go through all of that and still not kill, I am not surprised Heath is having a hard time. Dude scavenged but he never encountered out-and-out scum. TF has had the WORST luck during the apocalypse. That being said, I am annoyed they didn't resolve Heath's story. Keep him or kill him. I ain't trying to see a Heath bottle episode in another season. He isn't likable enough.
Should have had more Heath.
I liked Cyndie. The little girl can fuck off.
I liked the episode though, but it shouldn't have been a bottle episode. Enough!