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Discussion/Meta Rick and Michonne both LIE in the last scene

Discussion in '7x04: Service' started by Barbarossa-TWD, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    The world is upside down. Usually Rick wants to fight and Michonne wants more information. This scene is the parallel of the barn scene in The Distance where Michonne pushed Rick into going to Alexandria.

    S5.E11
    Michonne: There's only one way to find out.

    Rick: We don't need to find out.

    Michonne: We do. You know what you know and you're sure of it, but I'm not.

    Maggie: Me neither.

    Rick: Your way is dangerous, mine isn't.

    Michonne: Passing up someplace where we can live? Where Judith can live? That's pretty dangerous. We need to find out what this is. We can handle ourselves. So that's what we're gonna do.
    My feelings are that Rick HAS learned his lesson but he is right because he is the only one who personally knows what Negan is about. Rick is NOT broken he is just biding his time for the right moment. We've already been told why he is "backing down" from a similar scene in the Kingdom. Ben confesses to Morgan that the reason Ezekiel won't tell his people is because he knows they will want to fight. Rick has a community of season warriors who took on thousands of Walkers by hand... there is no way he could keep them from fighting if he showed an ounce of resistance to Negan.

    So Rick has to pull out the heavy artillery to try and "shut that shit down" Michonne's inclinations to fightback. Rick pulls on the grand daddy of all heartstrings and confesses that he is not Judith biological father.

    S7.E4
    Rick: I know Judith isn't mine. I know it. [Breathes deeply] I love her. She's my daughter. But she isn't mine. I had to accept that. I did. So I could keep her alive. I'll die before she does, and I hope that's a long time from now so I can... raise her and protect her and teach her how to survive. This is how we live now. I had to accept that, too, so I could keep everyone else alive.

    Michonne: It's not your fault when people die.

    RicK: Not always, but sometimes -- sometimes it is. You have to accept this -- all of us do -- or it won't work.

    Michonne: I'm gonna try.

    But if you listen carefully he is also saying that LYING to the world is sometime necessary in order to keep your love ones safe. Look here is a lie that I have been telling the world since Judith was born. Then he pleads with Michonne to ACCEPT this lie that this is how they have to live now (could mean at the moment not forever) or "it" won't work. What the heck is "it"??? One could naturally assume that it means it, living under Negan's thumb, or it could mean that the LIE won't work and Negan will see their resistance an kill more of them.

    So I think he is begging Michonne to accept the lie, but he is very careful with his words. He wants her to believe him because it make the entire situation more believable.

    Michonne's straight up lies and says she has no more guns.

    I they still have guns, this was the whole reason why Michonne had to leave Rick in bed.

    S6.E15
    Michonne: Maggie asked me and Glenn to help put up more bins and watch points.

    ...

    Maggie: We'll have these, but we should hide a few. That way, we can find them, but strangers can't. In case anyone gets in.

    Michonne: They won't.

    [​IMG]


    So technically only Michonne knows where they are since Maggie isn't there and Glenn is dead.

    This doesn't sound like a person who is unprepared for Negan:

    S7.E4
    Olivia: I...figured you were coming. Show him where the guns are, Olivia. The armory's inside.

    ...

    Michonne: That rifle was one of theirs from the outpost. They didn't have a list?
    Rick: Unh-unh.
    Michonne: Could've hidden more.
    Rick: Did you?
    Michonne:[Sighs] No.

    For some reason when Michonne says "No", I am reminded of peanut butter protein bars. Perhaps they kept bringing up Michonne's lie is to show that she will lie when she deems it necessary.


    This time Michonne wants to fight and Rick wants to "know what it out there". Michonne had cautioned Rick about the satellite outpost fight by basically saying that they didn't know who Negan was but her worries were pushed aside. It's interesting that in the sneak peak for S7.E5 Michonne tells Carl that she needs to "know".
     
    #1 Barbarossa-TWD, Nov 15, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  2. ReeciePiecey

    ReeciePiecey Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    lol I knew that protein peanut butter bar was foreshadowing.
     
  3. zahira

    zahira Ricktator
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    Great points
     
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  4. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    He told Negan "as far as he knows" that all the guns were accounted for. Why use the legal speak??? He knows she is lying about the guns.
    Rick wanted to drill it in to her that if she did anything it would just end up getting someone killed.
     
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  5. MrsG

    MrsG Licking Rick clean.
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    I'm listening..... Very intriguing, you might be on to something. Continue...:bed:
     
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  6. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    The Vow

    S6.E15
    Rick: The world's ours, and we know how to take it. Everything we need is right here inside these walls. We're not losing any of it again. I'm not.
    Michonne: No, you're not. I'm not

    Both are working in their own way to fulfil their vows. But it is like after the line up and Rick was taken by Negan to a place "where he couldn't see clearly". Rick is waiting for a clearer vision of what he really is up against. But he doesn't want to get anyone else killed in the meantime. Michonne is just angry and wants to fight.
     
  7. slade3

    slade3 The New Mrs. Grimes
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    You're right! Michonne left that morning with a bag (the reason some felt she was leaving Rick). I just assumed that bag was full of guns. She returned with a deer, one gun and her katana. Where is that bag she went out with?

    Rick saw her leave with the bag. I'm sure he noted that she didn't return with it. That's why he said, as you point out, "as far as I know".

    Also, I think you're on to something with the protein bar. Right after the finale, Gimple tweeted a picture of a protein bar and a bunch of people thought it meant Michonne was the LV. Even I got nervous for a second (I mean, it was a few days after the finale, I think, and there was a lot of doubt) - I just couldn't figure out why protein bars were suddenly so significant. We also see that Michonne puts a protein bar in her bag in the promo for next week's episode. The protein bar could just be a bit of fun, but maybe it means more.
     
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  8. zahira

    zahira Ricktator
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]she has the bag here i think
     
  9. MrsG

    MrsG Licking Rick clean.
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    Hmm. I went back and watched the Love Pallet scene and when Michonne tells Rick "I'm gonna try," he nods acknowledgement ever so slightly while glancing at her. He is relieved at her words, but he also looked kind of sly at the same time. I like your theory. Like maybe Rick needs Michonne to buy-in to "submission" like everybody else, so they can truly execute a sneak attack. Richonne may be working from a need-to-know basis or viewpoint right now. Very, very interesting. I like it. :allthethings:. Great job @Barbarossa-TWD :flirt::rickgrin:
     
  10. slade3

    slade3 The New Mrs. Grimes
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    She does! Oh, well. I got excited.

    Thanks for posting and clarifying!
     
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  11. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    She is so hot here. Carry on.
     
  12. TexasZAgal

    TexasZAgal Ricktator
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    I am not a reader of the GN ,but I know that people who do read it have said that Rick was only pretending to be submissive to Negan while formulating a plan to defeat the Saviors. Rick has to bide his time while he comes up with a plan.
     
  13. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    He's waiting for the smoke to clear.
     
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  14. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    I like this theory but am wondering why not let Michonne in on it if he really is laying low. And likewise if she is hiding more guns why not tell him. I like them maybe being incognito because it's war but don't want them keeping things from each other, especially such highly volatile things.
     
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  15. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    Fog of war.

    The problem is that we still don't know what happened when they returned. Just from an interview I read Danai said that emotions are too raw and they haven't talked about what happened.

     
    #15 Barbarossa-TWD, Nov 15, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
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  16. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    Danai also said that she and Andy purposely stayed away from each other to get that sense of distance. They talked out the scene individually with Gimple instead of each other. Andy was already in bed when she got in and they took it from there.
     
  17. slade3

    slade3 The New Mrs. Grimes
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    I just rewatched this scene and I can't believe I missed/forgotten that Rick even mentions he knows what's in the bag! I will rewatch this scene many times, I think. Sunday night, I didn't really catch everything an seeing it again? It's a terrific Richonne scene. Wow.

    I love this. I haven't read the interview, so thanks for sharing.
     
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  18. Atributetoorange

    Atributetoorange Purple calms the nerves
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    I love this theory!

    705 is suppose to begin with Richonne, so we might get our answer in that episode. Who knows, only the TPTB, time will tell.
     
  19. Misty Knight

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    Yeah, ASZ isn't completely gunless.

    I think Michonne asked Rick if Saviors have a list of their own weaponry because she knows where her, Glenn, and Maggie hid the other savior guns. My spec, is that she may be going to those spots in future episodes.

    What, I find interesting is the role reversal between Rick and Michonne. Rick is now in the position of being left in the dark (about guns) that Michonne was in during 5B. I think Michonne hasn't told Rick about the guns, she's stored is because she's afraid he'll talk her out of it (well he almost did) and that he might snitch (PB bar) to keep her safe.
     
  20. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    The burgeoning relationship between Rick (Andrew Lincoln) and Michonne (Danai Gurira) was one of the lone bright spots in a sea of grimness in the home stretch of Season 6 of “The Walking Dead.” But in the aftermath of Negan’s brutal subjugation of the Alexandria community, Rick and Michonne have found themselves holding two opposing views on their predicament, leading to some tension. Gurira called up Variety to discuss Michonne’s surprising decision at the end of the episode.

    Talk us through Michonne’s decision-making process in giving up the gun, and seemingly coming around to Rick’s point of view, which is that they cannot fight these people.

    It really was the realization that these two people haven’t been on the same page. They haven’t had a conversation since this happened. The shot with both of them in bed at the beginning of the episode, it’s very different from the first time we saw them in bed together. Then, they were disrobed, intertwined. Now they’re back-to-back and clothed. They know each other too well to know they’re not on different sides.

    Michonne finding Negan there is very, very frustrating for her. They have been caught with their pants down. Rick has been shut down about it; they haven’t strategized. No one knows if there is a strategy.

    Michonne has been garnering a very real reaction to Rick’s inertia. It is really a very frustrating disconnect and lack of communication, which they’ve never had. It causes her to retreat. She goes back to being a loner and being by herself, figuring out how to handle this in a solo way. Being part of a team has its flaws when you’re not on the same page.

    Giving him the gun is when she feels that fear he’s been feeling. When she hears him express that fear of more loss, she understands. But it’s a very frustrating moment, because she understands — but it’s not who they are. They’re warriors.

    Her attempt to come to his side comes from when he tells her about Judith. She’s that far away from him, so he has to go that far, because he knows what she’s capable of. It does work, because she sees such a beautiful component of him she hadn’t seen before. It’s heartbreaking, and that’s what she loves about him. He’s so sacrificial, and he doesn’t do it from that place of ego. She can’t ignore that. In some ways it makes her love him even more. She would never have dreamt that he wasn’t Judith’s father from the way he treats this little girl.

    But she says, “I’m going to try,” because it’s not who she is. To see what the Saviors did as they’ve left, that’s their act of enslavement. They’re breaking us in every way they can think of. Taking their things and then burning it all. Is there even a way to cooperate with people like this, on top of all they’ve done already? Do we live a life of being enslaved? That’s something she can’t quite get her mind around. She can get her heart aligned around him. But her mind? It’s hard.

    Where does Michonne go from here? Can she really lay down for the Saviors? It’s interesting that Negan didn’t take away Michonne’s sword.

    I think there is something about not taking away people’s knives. Negan wants us to be alive, and knives are harder to cause a ruckus with. It’s strategic on Negan’s part. Michonne’s sword is a big knife, but it is a knife. It can’t cause a magnificent amount of damage.

    At the same time, she’s caught between her love for her partner, the love of her life, and who she is. She just knows in her gut and instinct and intellect that there’s always a way to fight — looking at all that we don’t have isn’t the way. Right now she can’t argue with him when he tells her they just don’t have the numbers. There’s a deep emotional and psychological argument, but she doesn’t really have anything to come back at him with, because he’s being so pragmatic.

    Having to play someone in that state feels like it could take a toll on an actor.

    It really is about how you need to get there. It’s particular to each actor. Myself and Andy didn’t really discuss the scenes in the episode a lot. I discuss them a lot with my boss, but there was less discussion between us because the conflict is in the moment. We’ve been that separate. I just got in the bed, he’s in the bed, there’s that disconnect, and we lived in that a little bit as we were shooting it. It’s them trying to navigate through that through lack of communication. I lived and stewed in that very trapped place; it’s a component of the grief the loss and the need to rectify.