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Discussion in 'Season 3' started by MamaGrimes, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    Nevertheless, she persisted
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    Discussion for 3.2 begins here.
    As Hershel's condition worsens, Rick, Daryl and T-Dog deal with a group of prisoners.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 MamaGrimes, Jan 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2016
  2. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    I just watched this episode as part of my re-watch of the seasons. I'm trying to figure out why some fans (mostly Lori sympathizers) claim that if Lori didn't die she and Rick would have reconciled. I just don't see it.

    At the end of the episode she talks about them getting divorce lawyers and splitting their assets they both smile sadly. He then says that she's not a bad mother, referring to her earlier comment to him that she was "a shitty wife and bad mother". His neglect to correct her "shitty wife" comment hangs between them and she notices - that's when she said she had hoped he had come after her to talk about "us". He pointedly and coldly I would add, ignores her and tells her "we are grateful to you" referring to her saving Hershel's life. After she says he's the one that acted fast by cutting off Hershel's leg, he reaches over and touches her shoulder. The whole conversation takes place with them standing about 3 feet apart and both facing forward. He doesn't look at her during the entire conversation and after he reaches over and touches her shoulder and walks away, to me that was the we are done subliminal talk. She moves her face towards her shoulder and you could see her heartbreak at the realization that they are done.

    IMO if she lived they would have raised their kids and protected them, but something essential was lost and their marriage I do not believe could have continued, at least the loving marriage they used to have.

    I believe eventually they would have moved on to other partners. What are your opinions on this?
     
  3. LaToya78

    LaToya78 Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    I agree
     
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  4. Lilly965

    Lilly965 Wig Shopping For Michonne
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    This was the episode that made me stan for Rick
     
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  5. SweetDee85

    SweetDee85 Richonne Trash
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    I agree. Also, right before the walkers attacked in 3x04, they were looking at each in a loving way. Now I don't think that meant if she would have lived, they would have reconciled. I think they realized the place that they were in and that was a friendly smile. It was a smile that said they weren't gonna be together but they weren't going to be hostile with each other anymore. They were going to co-parent and protect their kids as best they could. But yeah, their marriage was over and there would be no reconciling that.
     
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  6. Tori

    Tori The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I don't know because in the episode where she died Rick there was something in the way he was looking at her when she was out there with Hershel and Carl. Like he was working on forgiving her. I think he still had love for her and he would have tried to make things work. It would have been hard to move on because Rick is a one woman kind of man.Look how long it took him to take off his ring. I always thought that even if the ZA had never happened Lori would have left Rick. He never would have left her. It would have also been really hard to move on to someone else when your ex is in your face every single day. It would have been awkward and I'm not sure they could have lived together if they broke up but where would the other go. They would have been stuck.
     
  7. richonnelove

    richonnelove Ricktator

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    I disagree. Yes Rick had shut down and was cold towards her but he was starting to thaw towards her a bit. Their marriage was broken, but it was reconcilable and I think with time and the circumstances they were in which forces closeness and relying on each other could have brought them together again. We know she still loved Rick, her willingness for them to talk and heal showed this. After her death, Rick admitted that he still loved her and though he didn't know how, thought he had time to fix what was broken between them which shows he wanted to, he just didn't know how because his anger was still in the way.
     
  8. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    I agree and disagree to some extent. Part of the problem for me was she questioned a lot of his decisions; she hated the fact that he'd run off, leaving Carl and her to save someone or the other. I wonder how she would have felt with him running off to save Maggie & Glen for example, leaving her to care for Carl AND a newborn. The other BIG reason was his inability/unwillingness to communicate, this was highlighted from the very first scene of the show. It was not just his anger that was in the way, their problems were much bigger and began well before the ZA and Shane.

    Rick is very loyal, so I don't think he'd have moved on with someone else with her alive, unless she left first. He would have stayed married to her, but with the pressures and stress of this new world I can't see how their relationship, that was already so severely weakened, could be repaired or repair itself, especially if those old issues are never resolved. Many people remain in marriages for various reasons and a lot of these couples love each other, they're just not in love with each other anymore - this is where Rick and Lori would have ended up. A marriage like this is vulnerable to affairs, etc. IMO
     
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  9. ReeciePiecey

    ReeciePiecey Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    I guess I'm a Lori sympathizer because I don't think they would have separated pre or post zpoc. Their talk on the crosswalk was just another part of their pattern and a sign of their personalities. Lori was emotional and dramatic she is the type that lets her emotions rule her. So it makes sense that she would jump to the worse possible case for them which would be divorce. Rick does what he always does and remains silent and doesn't play into her behavior. Which makes Lori feel like he doesn't care as usual but he shows her he does by reaching for her and touching her shoulder. He gives her hope and you later see their smiles through the fence before she dies.

    Their last talk was a mirror of the argument we hear about in episode one. She wants him to say something anything even if it's bad and he doesn't say anything. It's progress for them that they are even taking (Rick wouldn't even give her time to argue for 7-8 months). they were on the way to healing and we see that when he reaches out and touches her.

    They always reached for each other. They tended to use physical touch to show love and appreciation for each other even when they couldn't communicate. Her rejecting his touch after Shane's death was what started the rift. In the past that was how they solved or ended every disagreement with a hug or a touch.

    Lori wasn't perfect by far and she had some ways about her but Rick knew that about her and loved her anyway. Which is probably why he wasn't surprised about Shane. But Rick and Lori both weren't the type of people to give up what was theirs.
     
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  10. Tori

    Tori The New Mrs. Grimes

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    That's assuming Lori didn't change. We might be assuming that she would have stayed the same. She wouldn't have. This world changed people like Carol, Morgan and Rick. It would have changed Lori too. A lot of the things we saw from her in season 2 would have probably been gone. There is no way you could survive in this new world holding on to the same values she was holding on to. That's what got Rick in trouble with that whole Jessie mess. Trying to hold on to the past. Lori would have had no choice but to change. Lori also wasn't sitting behind some wall making statues. She was out there living it just like the rest of them. It would have changed her, and she probably would see things the way Rick does. She would probably be more understanding of the kind of person he is now because her thinking would probably be more like his.
     
    #10 Tori, May 26, 2016
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
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  11. luv

    luv Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Definitely they would not have stayed together - I think Rick would do his best to protect
    them, but that marriage was over the only connection they had then was the children. He may have tried for
    the baby but... I feel they would realise it was not working.
     
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  12. luv

    luv Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I agree Caribbeanqueen11 He is a one woman man, but even he would have his limit, that last scene of his with
    her in the walkway when he makes no eye contact and then leaves after the convo. Their lack of communication
    and trust and respect was gone on both sides and I feel that it would even be harder to come back in this brand
    new world. After she had the baby and could have survived they would have fallen back into old habits, thats
    human.
     
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  13. luv

    luv Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I kinda feel that Lori would eventually adapt, but not sure if Rick would have been able to hide his attraction
    to Michonne, which was evident from day 1, it would have been a very interesting situation. Lori would certainly
    not let Carl do half the things he did but I could be wrong....:cool:
     
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  14. Tori

    Tori The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I don't think there would have been an attraction because Andy never would have played it that way. He knows Rick loved Lori and would never in a million years cheat on her. Andy also loved working with SWC. He even said a long time ago that if there was one person he could have kept on the show longer it would have been her. I also don't believe the writers would have written it that way. The audience probably would have hated it because it would have been another love triangle. Those are not interesting to watch. If they had kept her around she would have adapted and they probably would have worked things out. But that's not how Rick's story was suppose to go. Lori's story was done and her death moved Rick's story along. Things happened the way they were suppose to happen. I do agree about Carl. He also would not be as close to Michonne as he is right now.
     
  15. luv

    luv Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Yea her story was done, and I was glad for it, as her character was holding Rick's character back. You could be
    right he may not have moved on which in the end would have not been good for him. I still don't think their
    relationship would have been the same, not after what happened with him killing Shane. Your right he loved
    Lori, and is a 1 woman man. But I feel she lost his respect along the way with the lack of support from
    her pitting 2 best friends against the other because she was scared. Not trusting her husband who
    she has known for a long time over a hot head like Shane. Don't get me wrong I liked Shane as well,
    but I always felt in the t.v. show Lori & Shane suited each other better, or maybe it was because they
    seemed similar in their reactions to things that it came off that way :unsure:not sure that's just my take.

    I agree that he loved working with Sarah, but my thoughts don't have anything to do with the
    actors relationship, just the character they played. They did a great job.

    So I guess in somethings we agree and others not but that's okay :)that is why I love these grougs. Reading
    different takes on how the story could go. Looking forward to more discussions :thumbsup:
     
    #15 luv, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
  16. Lyra_Nation

    Lyra_Nation Young, scrappy, and hungry
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    I'm of the opinion that Lori wouldn't have changed much from who she was because she wouldn't have had to become a fighter or anything with Rick there. She could always just keep her role as "housewife" because Rick would have been her protector even though I do feel like they wouldn't have lasted because Rick would have become who he is today (fierce and unapologetic) even if Lori had survived. Because, though he wouldn't have gone crazy due to Lori's death, he would have been working harder and harder to keep her and their kids safe after all of the conflicts they went through (The Gov, Terminus, whatnot...).

    Lori had strength. She would do what she needed to do so I'm not really sure how much growing she needed to do. She didn't refuse to see what the world was like - like the ASZers. She used guns - when she had to. She just chose to be who she was - she chose to keep traditional family roles because, like she said, it provided stability.

    So I think the marital problems Lori and Rick had would have only stayed with them and would have eventually drew them apart. They share children, their love will always be there, but their marriage was going to end no matter what (that's my belief). Rick would never stop being a leader and running off to take care of business so even if Rick and Lori had made it to the ASZ, that eventually would have become a problem again because Lori would have wanted him to stay at home with the family.

    Even SWC said that maybe that's why Rick and Michonne work. Because Michonne is a fellow warrior and doesn't need Rick to stay at home and be a family man all the time.
     
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  17. luv

    luv Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Lyra_Verse I bow to you :bow: you actually put into words what I could not- this is exactly what I was trying to say
    but you do it in a way that is worthy of Rainbow Cat's thesis on TWD. Thank you for this and I agree with the
    analysis.:holdheart:
     
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