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Poll The Plan: Which One Was Better?

Discussion in '6x12: Not Tomorrow Yet' started by Doctor Grimes, Mar 7, 2016.

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Which Plan Was Better? Which one would you have voted for?

  1. Rick's plan. Kill them before they kill us.

    16 vote(s)
    35.6%
  2. Morgan's plan. We don't know what we're up against. Let's talk to them first.

    1 vote(s)
    2.2%
  3. Another plan. Both options suck cookies.

    28 vote(s)
    62.2%
  1. Consigliere

    Consigliere Caressing Eugene's Mullet

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    I'm getting the Vibe Michonne is not feeling the plan or likes where it's going. They should have ask one of the dudes before they killed him who is Negan and what he looks like or beat it out of someone. I'm scared for all involved. Hell is going to reign down on our family..Urgh...
     
  2. DaisyRey

    DaisyRey This Is Different
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    I feel that Rick's plan was the best plan based on their current situation and the information they had at that time. Ideally, taking the time to find out more info on the saviors would be the best approach, but after re-watching Rick's speech a few more times, I think he truly feels that they don't have that kinda time. They would be taking a chance that the saviors would find them first. And then he says if the saviors did find them they would fight back. But because of their lack of food and the kind of fight it would likely be, he says they might lose. He says "this is the only way to be sure, as sure as we can get."

    He had total confidence in TF to do what needed to be done. Watching them carry out the plan, I was in awe how they worked together and took care of business. If not for that alarm being pulled, it was basically flawless. I know they still would have had Negan to deal with, but Maggie & Carol would probably still be with the group. It's one of those things where we know more than the group does, and I can't fault Rick at all because he formed the best plan based on what he had and the time crunch factor.
     
  3. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Yeah that's the thing. The plan worked. They did win the battle. It was impressive. Had the alarm not been pulled, Maggie and Carol would've been fine (I assume).

    I think the time element is what made Rick pull the trigger so quick without more scouting. It may have taken several days go do proper reconnaissance, and what then? Craig would've been dead, and the Saviors may have attacked them anyway.

    Launching an assault against what (they assume) is a relatively small group as soon as they can (element of surprise) in the hopes of saving a hostage coupled with their level of confidence? It seems a no brainier to them.

    This is a case where the audience knows more going into this than the group does -- so we're of course going "Morons!" But honestly they don't have many options. Negan is coming regardless of what they do. And even if they *had* done surveillance... What then?

    Let's say they discovered the Saviors have a base and like 100+ people loaded to the teeth. All they'd know is, "We're screwed."

    I suppose they could try blowing them up or leading a herd to their location, but that would take further planning.

    It really would be seeing the wall of water coming at you from the shore line.
     
  4. tuswig

    tuswig Bitch Slayer

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This scene explains why the plan was doomed to begin with. The group was so hasty to go in "guns blazin" that no one never stopped and thought "Ok, so what does Negan actually look like? Does he reside at this outpost? How do we even know that he will be there on this particular night?" These are things that the group could have possibly known if they would have taken an extra day or so to plan, ask more questions, scope the place out, etc.
     
    #24 tuswig, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  5. DirtieBirdie

    DirtieBirdie Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Michonne is usually the barometer for whether a plan/a person/a situation is legit.
    Her intuition is almost never wrong. (Is it ever?) She was not thrilled with this plan, but she also saw no alternative. (And no, she wasn't agreeing with it just for Rick's sake). I had a bad feeling when I saw her facial expressions. They all knew this was going to cost something. So far, the casualties are: a piece of Glenn's soul, Maggie and Carol's safety, and TF's short- lived sense of security.

    Things are going to get much worse quickly. I'm scared.
     
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  6. tuswig

    tuswig Bitch Slayer

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    Michonne's demeanor all throughout the episode was giving me bad vibes. When Michonne is uneasy, I'm uneasy....and anxious lol
     
  7. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    Yeah. It's a head/heart dichotomy. Michonne's head knew the plan was sound, and there wasn't a good alternative, but her heart knows something is wrong with it. She just can't pinpoint what.

    More reconnaissance would've been nice. But maybe they didn't have much choice on how much time they had.
     
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  8. Armte

    Armte Schadenfreude is my Aesthetic
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    I voted for another plan. There is such a thing as winning the battle but not the war. The plan would have been a success if the alarm wasn't set and Maggie and Carol weren't arguing and got captured. But I would argue they never even should have been at the planning stage in the first place. The meeting at hilltop was taken over by other TF members who were way to cocky about their skills when it came to taking down Negan. They lacked complete intel and they have no clue how ruthless Negan is. I am shock that Jesus telling them the story about Negan giving the bat to a 17 year old hilltop resident after they agreed to Negan's terms did not atleast give TF a moment to pause and take breath and think maybe we should wait a minute.

    They went 0 to 100 too quickly, offering their mercenary skills. We know they were probably already in Negan's sites because of the Abe/Sasha/Daryl incident. However they totally jumped into the fire and they are unprepared for the level of brutality and strength of Negan. They may have freed that guys brother, got food and killed 20 some saviors but we know it was a small victory in the end. And this victory is going to cost them way more then they realize.

    I know that the showdown with Negan was inevitable but team family did not have to rush it. They knew going in that was an outpost and that all the saviors were not going to be there, that meant they had to consider they may not be cutting the head off of the snake. I wish they would have waited, gathered more intel and formulated a game ending plan.
     
    #28 Armte, Mar 7, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
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  9. tuswig

    tuswig Bitch Slayer

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  10. day dreamer

    day dreamer Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I voted different plan. Rick's plan in general wasn't bad, I just believe they should've spent a bit more time scoping out the Saviors, especially after the Hilltop dude provided such little intel. Rick's right, they would've attacked eventually and they're not good people. But they should've spent a bit more time feeling them out.
     
  11. CrownRoyale

    CrownRoyale Slopping Pigs

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    IMO the plan didn't work at all. Even if the alarm wasn't pulled, and even if Carol and Maggie weren't captured, I still wouldn't have considered this a win. In 6.11 when Maggie makes the deal, the conditions are:

    "You give us supplies, we'll save Craig and take care of Negan and the Saviors, permanently."

    There is nothing to suggest that this would have actually been accomplished in this episode and that falls on everyone, for not really thinking. Based off of just the intel that they had, 1. they knew that the Saviors only travel in groups of 20, at the most, 2. SAD took out a group weeks before and it doesn't seem to have had any affect on the Saviors numbers and them still being able to intimidate people, 3. the guy from hilltop (whatever his name was) was not a wealth of knowledge, he didn't know how many men Negan has in total, whether or not the outpost had windows (it did), he didn't supply much information that would help the group in taking out all of Negan's men.

    When you take all of that in to consideration, I don't think there's a way to justify the group going after the Saviors without doing some recon first. I find it hard to believe that no one suggested taking that route first actually. Sad to say, but Craig (or whatever his name is) was not the first priority, demolishing the Saviors permanently is, so that should have been the focus of the plan, and it wasn't. The group's arrogance is really to blame here though.
     
  12. HustleBunnee

    HustleBunnee Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    Me too. And the love-key repetitious minor key music didn't make it any better. My heart was in my throat the whole episode.
     
  13. lostinadaydream

    lostinadaydream Hiding in Dale's RV

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    Rick's.

    To wait was not an option: they needed to act before Negan and co. found them. And they probably were already on the radar - Negan at this point should know that there is someone out there that managed to incinerate some of his men - and ,as Doctor Grimes pointed out, there was also the 'Craig factor'... There was literally no time.

    Scooting the area when their target was a place they had enough info on would have took time they didn't have and done nothing but increase the chances to meet Negan's men and draw attention on them while losing the surprise element. A situation, given Negans's group MO, Rick needed to avoid at any cost.

    The plan was solid. They managed to get in without problems and, had not been for Abe being too occupied watching Sasha picking at the door lock instead to check the hallway properly and Maggie and Carol being too caught up in their discussion to end up being surprised by those people, it would have gone smoothly and they would have succeded - if not in killing Negan ( Rick was probably going to ask Jesus to check the bodies to found out if it was really over?) to at least weaken his group and send a message.

    At the end missing informations or not ( how Negan looked, the group was all there or not..etc) Rick and the others were in a position were they could have not acted differently. And there is no plan or something they could have done or not done that could have avoided the situation they will find themselves in.
     
  14. Bazooka Jane

    Bazooka Jane On a pirate ship
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    A rebuttal to the "there was no time" argument: there may not have been time for a 24-48 hour recon mission, but they all arrive on that road what looked to be late afternoon. Go-time was midnight. All the prep they had to do was find a Gregory head, which took maybe an hour. All that time and they couldn't do some watching from a tree? Idk what it could help, but that fact they didn't float that idea at all.... Also, how did they know that the Saviors don't frequent that road? One minute they'll be dicking around on the asphalt, next they are in a shoot out with a surprise truck of Savior.

    Yeah, I know, the answer is "they read the script" but it's still weird they left themselves exposed.
     
  15. lostinadaydream

    lostinadaydream Hiding in Dale's RV

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    They did that. As Rick said: "We're gonna take a look around, try to get a feel for how many people are in there. We like how it looks, we go in ."

    Re: the road it all depends on how far they were from the place. Still from the moment they left Alexandria they could met them, so I suppose they considered the possibility of something like that to happen and therefore they were alert and ready to act.
     
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  16. Bazooka Jane

    Bazooka Jane On a pirate ship
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    You're right, thank you!

    The second part is a fair assumption. Being surprised on the road would have fucked with the plans to get Craig back tho, should the compound people have heard the gun fire. I just bugged me that they all moseied up in board daylight with 4 cars, next to a open field and hung out like no one could potentially see them even from a distance and sound the alarm.
     
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  17. Butler36

    Butler36 What?
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    I think getting to Craig was probably the time sensitive part as he was a part of the food deal. Greg is the type of guy who would have reneged on any failure of that promise. This is why Tara told them to get out of there and asked if they delivered Craig if the deal was still on. I think the Saviors were going to kill him relatively soon if they didn't show up with Greg's head after a certain amount of time. Rick's main concern was getting more food at that point so if the Saviors did come or there were more, ASZ would be strong and could fight back.

    And again, the largest fighting group Rick has encountered has been Terminus and at the most they were around 20 soldiers. I don't think he figures that the Saviors are so large and that the compoud would be a place that a singular group would settle since that has been his experience.

    The problem is that they are more than likely wrong on that front.
     
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  18. Latrice

    Latrice Watchtower Sniper
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    I voted for another plan but giving what Rick knows about the Saviors from Daryl, Abe and the Hilltop his plan was the best. Doc said it best, but there is a lack of communication with regards to what these Saviors can do. Aaron made his decision out of fear because of what the wolves did and I think that is why most people in the safe zone were quiet about it. They don't want that to happen again.

    Like others, I think a lack of planning was likely due to the hilltop having a certain amount of time to give the Saviors the head of Gregory. Again I voted another plan but I think that is just because I "know" more in terms of spoilers and speculation. But with the information that has been presented to everyone Rick's plan made sense.
     
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  19. toytoy

    toytoy Wearing a Necklace of Ears

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    I voted for Rick's plan.......I don't think Rick's plan was bad, I think the deal was bad...Madam Maggie is the person who made the deal to get the hostage back and to eliminate the saviors. To me that show her inability to lead, and believe me I am not Maggie bashing, but she should never promise to kill a group without knowing anything about them.. She didn't know how many of them was out there, what kind of weapons they had, as a soon to be mother, she didnt even inquire about the residents of their compound, were children there etc.
    I totally blame Maggie, she made the deal, Rick came up with a good plan to deliver what was promise.
     
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  20. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    You bring up a good point. Getting Craig back was part of the deal, so that was non-negotiable. If they were going to go balls-in on this, they had to at least fulfill that part of the bargain and bring Craig home safely -- which could be why they had to strike as quickly as they did.