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Discussion/Meta The Rise & Fall of Daryl Dixon

Discussion in 'Daryl / Norman Reedus' started by Doctor Grimes, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. VaSou

    VaSou Wearing a Necklace of Ears

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    I have to admit:

    I still like Daryl!

    [​IMG]

    Yes, yes, I know XD
    But I also have to say that he changed quite a lot and in a way I really don't... get to be honest. As many of you said before he was so different in the first two (maybe three) seasons and I loved that big-mouthed redneck.

    With all his squirrel throwing sillyness!

    I really really liked him. I still do but sometimes it feels like he's a complete different character. Okay, maybe you can say: Yes, he changed, he became older and somekind of embittered to the world. He lost so many beloved peeps, he can't show his feelings (well he was used to it in the first three seasons I think...) and always thinks he's the one who's responsible for the death of someone and that's the problem I have with his character now.

    Because that is the only character trait they give him now.
    He's bitter. He's dark. He's suffering.
    And people seem to love it.

    But I have to say I still see the "old" Daryl in him. Like in 6.10... that was so S1 Daryl to me. He was cheeky, loud-mouthed, god he was a little brat but I loved it... The "old" Daryl.... He's still there, somewhere hidden under all that dirt and filthy hair xD

    It's sad that they don't give him a real story or importance for the plot. He's just... there.
    I hope they will change that because IMHO he still has potential. I would love to see his "story" (or finally give him a real!) progressing and that he finally does something different than being that grumpy dark bitter prince.

    6.10 gave me hope. I would love to see that old Daryl again ^^
     
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  2. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    @Doctor Grimes - Earlier in another thread, I told you I wanted to hug your post and chat with it over coffee.

    This one? Well this one I want to hang out with over some fruity yet strong drinks as alcohol consumption is recommended when discussing this topic.

    Thank you.:hug:
    [​IMG]
    Anyone who knows me knows of my long standing loathing for the character of Daryl Dixon. Doc covered it all in her brilliant OP but I have one slight but very important edit to make.

    Daryl CAN die. I swear to :jesus:, there are days I want to change my fandom name to that declaration because I am DONE with this man being made of teflon.

    He's an original made for TV character with NO basis in the source material. He ran out of development and viable storylines 97.2 years ago (okay 4 but they feel longer) and the actor portraying him is starting to age exponentially and at a rate that will make his badassery even more foolish looking in another year.

    Daryl CAN die and I bet Gimple agrees with me. He's been saddled with a character way past his expiration date his entire tenure as showrunner and my very strong thread of hope is that he has figured out when and how he'll make his exit.

    If I don't believe that Daryl can die then I have to accept the reality that plastic toys and plush pillows have more power than the need to tell a GOOD story in order to hold onto the #1 ratings this show currently enjoys.

    Daryl was awesome in Seasons 1 & 2. Good memories. Good times. I'll enjoy him when I rewatch but if I have my way, this will be his last season.
     
    #22 MamaGrimes, Oct 14, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
  3. DixonGrimes

    DixonGrimes Good to see u again baby" Norman R said to ME 10/2
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    Um.. did we just become best friends?? Lol I agree with this entire post. :)

    [​IMG]


    The list of Daryl positivity that I could list would be endless as we all know how I feel about him lol. 6.10 was amazing and still my favorite episode ever, his humor is still there. I think every character has changed from Season 1 which understandably so, I mean these people have been to hell and back. Daryl doesn't joke as much, Glenn doesn't joke as much, Rick doesn't joke as much, I mean if they were the same way as S1 & S2 it wouldn't fit the story that they are at right now.
     
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  4. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I don't agree, per se, with your points, and, yes, I love Daryl, but I also think he can/will be killed. Of course, many say no, but I do see a scenario/set of events that would be the end of Daryl.
    Having said thaaat, I am not as convinced as others that he is awful, big surprise, LOL. I think he was written to be stagnant, very stagnant. It was the intent of the creatives to give us this character, awash in misery before the turn, as a touchstone of sorts. IMO, to be a glaring example of "the change/turn" that comes in those circumstances. People like Daryl, before the turn, were not considered, shall we say, good guys. After the turn, he could escape that label. Not being familiar with the comic, at all, seeing Rick, Shane, then Daryl, gave me insight to what kind of story they were telling...I knew right away..."this story is not about zombies."
    Now, I can go on and on about stuff, lol, but, I will say, yes, Daryl as become a bit characatuered. The writing could solve that...but trying to hash out an abusive, racist background amid an apocalyptic tale, maybe that was a bridge too far for them. I have always just accepted they were to timid to address it. (Since they have given us the Rick/Michonne relationship, maybe they are gearing up to delve into Daryl's background some, which is one of the reasons I can envision him being killed.). Daryl was "the walking dead" before the turn, and he knew it...hence, his reaction to Rick saying that about all of them. He (Daryl) has very little range in emotions, abused children learn/have to do that. Mainly, fear, anger, sadness, an emotional IQ that is probably limited to a skill set of impulsiveness and reactionary behavior, all of which are protective behaviors. People in pain often appear angry, but, it. is. pain.
    I don't mean to sound silly, but, I feel bad for him (Daryl). Not pity, really, just I am familiar with that world/life he was living, bless his heart, so he is very authentic.
    I wish I could find words to tell you why I think he (Daryl) attached to Rick right away, I need to get my thoughts on that together and repost, lol. It is the same reason Merle resented/was hostile to him (Rick) right away. And, not only because Rick was a police officer. I start to ramble, and now, I have kindergarten brain, you know, one syllable words: "stop", "don't", "sit", etc.,etc...lol.
    I get that Daryl has his flaws, just like Rick...and Rick is still da bomb. I get that his (Daryl's) story, said and unsaid, is powerful. So is Rick's, their friendship/Rick taking him as his brother makes Rick's story even more compelling and intriguing, to me anyway. It was all about Rick in that scene, him choosing, his choice. (Daryl would never be so presumptuous as to claim a man like Rick as his brother.) I love all of them. I want them all to be a part of the rebuilding, true believer here, lol. But, alas, I know that is not possible. This is Rick's story, period. Having Daryl as a part of it has been, to me, anyway, a plus--gravy. I have posted before that supporting Rick taking Daryl into his heart, is being loyal to Rick...I stand by that. Daryl was first to see Rick as the leader of their group, but, also more...as the leader of the New/Next World. He is a tracker, he saw it first.
    P.S. The scene feeding Judith, love it, but a baby that is a few hours old, doesn't take that amount of formula...and they didn't have refrigerators...and formula was precious...that full bottle always bothered me...maybe because they were men, they didn't realize...but eight ounces?...unh-unh.
     
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  5. Stranger Danger

    Stranger Danger Den Mother

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    I think for me the problem with Daryl is he doesn't really have an arch anymore, like I can't really see where his story is headed. In the first three seasons he had a conflict with fitting into the group versus sticking with his brother and their old way of life. I enjoyed seeing Daryl evolve and become his own person, but these past few seasons he's kind of been all over the place with his story. It feels like he's constantly going through some emotional turmoil and worse it feels like tragedy is only being set up to give him man-pain. I just want him to be tied into the story again and not just 'there'. I do like the Dwight vs Daryl bit, I'm hoping it pans out to be something more than just Daryl has an arch nemesis.
     
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  6. Glennisbae

    Glennisbae Searching for Sophia

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    I don't think I've ever despised a fictional character this much. Not only do I hate him but I'm also exhausted. Every time I see him on screen I just feel tired. I don't want to see him anymore. I don't want to watch the show with him on it...
    and Glenn gone

    Like I was just apathetic towards him starting with S4 but with all the fan worshipping, I can't stand him.
    I wish they had just killed him off in season three when I still liked him. It would've been sad but they should've done it then because now his character has just stagnated. They had another good chance to do it by making him the LV....

    But they didn't. And they've just dug themselves into a hole where they can't kill him off... And he'll just go on being a mopey, greasy baby getting everyone killed.
     
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  7. DixonGrimes

    DixonGrimes Good to see u again baby" Norman R said to ME 10/2
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    So many people on this site used to post positvity about Daryl in the "Daryl thread" and the "NR thread" up until right before the S6 finale. Like in March the hate started out of nowhere lol. Sometimes I think people don't want their favorite to die so it's easy to hate the ones still alive. Daryl hate doesn't bother me because I fully respect people's opinions. Its the same way that I hate Lori more than words can describe but other people like her. But i never liked lori from the first epi. I guess I am just trying to understand how so many people liked him and in 2-3 episodes they are ready to take the pitchforks to him lol.
     
    #27 DixonGrimes, Oct 15, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
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  8. Narna

    Narna Hiding in Dale's RV

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    I like Daryl (esp S1-S3) but I actually agree with this especially of course from S4 onwards, and I also put all the blame on Gimple. It seems they think that catering to some fangirls/fanboys is enough for a character. Well, for me it is not. Daryl is a lot deeper character than that, he should have had a lot more interesting stories from S4 than they have given us.
    I am interested in his S7 arc, but I am tired of his self-blame stories. I am so tired of it. He deserves better imo.
    So people actually hating Daryl or even NR should also consider how much (at least this is how I see it) Gimple disrespects the character itself and maybe also Norman, which is terrible. Daryl has become shallow because Gimple sees him that way.

    But I just still cannot hate Daryl, and I am still hoping that he might become someday a bit funnier like he used to be.
     
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  9. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    Yay, someone who was not a fan from the get go
     
  10. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    Well, DG, as you know, I have never liked him. I tolerated him, but was never a fan. It stems from the fact that as a comic book nerd and a lover of the GN, I felt his presence awkward, like he didn't belong there (same with Merle and T-Dog, so this is not solely directed toward Daryl). It felt like he was taking away from characters I loved in the GN like Tyreese (would never like big teddy bear Tyreese, no offense to the actor) and Abe, who were both supposed to be Rick's right hand men. So my annoyance with him did not just began, it was long time simmering, but I kept it on the down low because I felt I was the only one
     
  11. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    Ok, one more thing. I will have to use another character that I cannot stand to explain why I can't even with the fans. As a fan of Naruto, I was a big fan of the eponymous character and as I got sucked in, I began to care for his counterpart Sasuke. He had a sad story, his brother killing his entire clan made him vengeful. I had no problem with that, but as the series went on, Sasuke became a ridiculous character that fans love only because they hated the main character. I am not saying that some love Daryl because they hate Rick, but most do forgive him for a lot of things they blame Rick. For example, let's say Rick was the one who had punched Negan, leading to Glenn death. You bet yer ass he would have been blamed, yet Daryl does it and it's a-ok. People should be objective enough to realize when their characters f' up or become stagnant
     
  12. idcabtthisish

    idcabtthisish The New Mrs. Grimes

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    [​IMG]


     
  13. Denie39

    Denie39 Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Thanks for creating this thread, @Doctor Grimes. I mentioned in Daryl’s appreciation thread about creating a thread pretty much like this, a safe space to talk about reasonable criticisms of the character without all the out-of-pocket hate.

    @Katbird echoes my thoughts so succinctly! But I will add this:

    So a lot of people talk about how much they loved redneck Daryl in the beginning, but I was cool towards Daryl. I didn’t like Merle at all (though I enjoyed the tension he added) and didn’t really trust Daryl. The whole redneck thing turned me off. But when he realized his brother wasn’t shit and that these new people were okay, he spread his wings a lot and they all became family. This made me like Daryl because we were getting beyond the redneck stuff and I could see the person he was. This was definitely something new for him and in a normal world without such extreme dangers, this new family would have been great for him. But I think its hard for him to process that he could lose these people at anytime so he goes back and forth between openess/trust and closing up again. Perhaps that back and forth is what people are perceiving as progression and regression. Unfortunately, that is some how humans act in real life because not everyone has the same emotional strength. So now, season 7, is the time for Daryl to take a large leap in character growth and hopefully stay there. AND, I will add Negan is game-changer for everyone not just Daryl.

    As to him hogging screen time and piggy-backing on other characters, I honestly don’t see what people are talking about. I’ve seen everyone get even shine (even with all the actors varied schedules, which I have a feeling is the direct reason we have bottle episodes). But I understand this is subjective.
     
  14. idcabtthisish

    idcabtthisish The New Mrs. Grimes

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  15. ALDGRichonneLover

    ALDGRichonneLover "I wanted it to be ours, me and you"
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    I was an annoyed Daryl fan up unitl the S7 premier where I PROMPTLY turned in my Daryl fan card until futher notice. Seeing my baby Glenn die as as result of Daryl's selfish and idiotic/stupid behavior, I just CANNOT with him any longer until he grows the fuck up. Plain and simple. I don't hate him, I just don't curr which I think is worse because there is no emotion elicited with not caring.

    I liked Daryl in the first two seasons, the best seasons for him TBH. He was a contrast to Rick and he and Merle brought a type of redneck realism to the show. I mean, they were in the south after all, and to not have backwoods racist/sexist people amongst the Atlanta group as a whole wouldn't ring true to me. So with Daryl, his brashness, his loudness, his impetuous, I Iiked him a lot. Even though he had plenty of issues, to see him getting closer to TF and develop was nice to witness.

    Then S3 happened and the explosive popularity of Daryl effing Dixon. I saw characters from the GN (Tyreese) getting backburned for him and his bromance with Rick brought to the foreground. Whereas Tyreese was Ricks right hand man, Daryl, a character not even in the GN, became that and more , while Tyreese was reduced to a pacifist and babysitter for Judith. He started becoming more and more visible on screen , more dialogue, more merchandising, just MORE of everything. I remember the baby Judith scene, but as nice as it was, I did feel as if they was some MAJOR pandering to the Daryl fanbase. Darly stans lost their shit after that scene and cemented him as THE MAN of TWD. By S4 and S5 Daryl could do no wrong, yet he was becoming stagnanat as all get out. He literally stopped growing, and began regressing. Then you add in the "I'm so cool and emo" vibe, the motorcycle,the hair, the leather jacket with wings, the sunglasses, and I scratch my head, like why is this near 50 year old an trying so damned hard? it's sad really, clinging to the youth so that the Daryl fan club can go, "look at the hot cool man on his motorcycle, isn't he dreamy?"

    His bottle episodes were boring and showed just how regressed and incapable Daryl is in being a human being or a leader, while his stans INSIST that he is the real leader and a better one than Rick could ever be (in what world?) He treated Beth like crap, and the "Still" episode with hime p*ssing on the house and burning it was just so rank and just childishly immature. This is the same man who hopped on the Claimers bandwagon after losing TF because he is a FOLLOWER and not a leader. Even when he saw they were not good people, he was still incapable of standing on his own. Not by a longshot. Yet, due to the large fan base, the pandering to his character and NR (whom I like, don't get it twisted), the amount of screen time afforded, the merchandise, the trolling, it makes his fan base, the critics, the media BELIEVE Daryl is the end all be all, the "most important character of ALL of TWD." The writing and shoving this character down our throats just emphasis this narrative and the GA just eats.. it.. up... Just kill me now with that utter nonsense. Not drinking that koolaide. :hot:

    Watching all of S6. Daryl didn't do much except sit on a porch, skin a possum and grunted. He didn't shower, he was refusing to acclimate himself to the AZ, he was anti-social, he was on his bike cruising with the herd, while TF were literally on their feet dogging walkers and peril situations right and left, yet he gets even more screen time with the Saviors/Dwight, he gets the big AZ save with the rocket launcer when it should have been Abe, you know the soldier with m-i-l-i-t-a-r-y experience but no. Daryl has to be the hero. To top it off, with what started his man pain with Sophia and Beth, just continued with Denise and I am OVER IT. His not thinking clearly, his ridiculous decision making, his IDGAF attitude that he projected at Glenn, even though he and Michonne/Rosita went out looking for his emo ass, and were captured because of him. Now that he is the cause of the demise of Glenn, you can rest assure that it will be ALL about Daryl Dixon and not Maggie or Sasha, or Rick. Nope, with the JDM bandwagon as Negan the AMC execs are SALIVATING at the Daryl/Negan hookup which means more merchandising sales, and less about telling a good cohesive story about RICK GRIMES, the mans breakdown and subsequent rise in taking Negan down in AOW with TF. This was further stressed in the DAF poll that CH (dear lord, why couldn't YB have been the host?) did as to whether or not Daryl was to blame for Glenns death, and you guessed it, 70% said "no." while his stans wore their DD shirts and screamed and cheered along the way. I was too done. At least in this fandom, I feel the number at 89% is more accurate. :lol:.

    After SIX seasons, to not have Darly in a place of some healing is just boring and repetitive to me and as a result, he won't be salvageable as a character for me until this happens. People have to grow up, face their fears, and mature. He doesn't have romantic relationships, to not piss off his female fan base, he doesn't engage really, he is "just there" and this almost 50 yearl old man, who is still trying to be oh so cool for school just remains stagnant, frozen in time, all to help sell merchandise and appease his huge fan base.
     
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  16. Denie39

    Denie39 Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I have to say, though, that the re-mixing of storylines from the GN to the show isn't necessarily a conspiracy (sorry, lack of better word) to prop Daryl. Andrea's SL has been divided between Michonne and Sasha. Why? No one here is complaining about that.
     
  17. walkinggirl26

    walkinggirl26 Rick's Right-Hand Woman
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    In order for Daryl to have a story, they had to either write original material for him or take from other characters that were actually in the GN to follow the storyline like Tyreese, Abraham, Glenn, and we'll see what they do with Jesus, but they were actually Rick's right-hand men in the GN and had much bigger roles. All of that changed on the TV show because they made Daryl Rick's right-hand man at the farm when Shane went down the rabbit hole and his brother after Joe and the Claimers. Daryl is the closest male to Rick, period, end of sentence. No one else is taking that place. They'll have to remix it. Sorry:jesus: It'll be interesting what they do with Dwight as well. Can't have two Daryls, so guess who would be the first to go if it came down to it?
    Hint: It ain't Daryl Dixon.

    Michone is Rick's bff in the comics as well as on the show. That hasn't changed. Sasha didn't take that. I mean, Rick has barely spoken to her out of the 4 seasons she's been there. Sasha got some of Andrea as well as Michonne's comic arc. Carol is getting some of her comic arc, which belongs in a whole other thread, lol! But Michonne is still Michonne. There's no more Andrea on the show, so Michonne is essentially a hybrid of Michonne/Andrea. Sasha wasn't in the comics either, but she's not taking over or diminishing Michonne's storyline on the TV show unlike Daryl has taken over and diminished characters' storylines that were actually in the GN. Won't say it's a conspiracy, but the writers have had to make specific changes to characters in order for Daryl to be woven into the GN storyline which is reflected on the TV show.

    Hopefully this makes sense. Thinking about Daryl for too long gives me a headache, lol!
     
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  18. idcabtthisish

    idcabtthisish The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Not to mention Andrea's dead on the show... she's not alive having Michonne and Sasha take her arc. She died. Daryl took people's arc who were alive and well on the show.

     
  19. ReeciePiecey

    ReeciePiecey Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    I agree with many of the things posted here. I liked Daryl in the beginning seasons, I grew up with people just like him so he seemed like a real fleshed out character but something changed with him and not in a realistic way.

    In the last few seasons Daryl has had a lot of screen time with no real character arc which is so weird if you think about it. He is literally just kind of there and doing stuff but no goals, no plans, no relationships just there. In comparison to other characters they have an arc and a journey but Daryl not so much.

    I'm not sure who is to blame for that but its definitely hurts the quality of the show.
     
  20. Denie39

    Denie39 Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Daryl was traveling with Aaron to find new people for AZ, though admittedly that was 5B. He was trying to acclimate like everyone else (except Rick and Carol).
     
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