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Poll TWD Re-Watch Club: Save The Last 2x03

Discussion in 'Season 2' started by SevenStars, Jul 10, 2016.

?

What grade would you give 2x3 ?

This poll will close on Jan 10, 2019 at 12:40 PM.
  1. A

    3 vote(s)
    37.5%
  2. B

    5 vote(s)
    62.5%
  3. C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Hello everyone,

    It's that time again. I hope the weekend is treating everyone good.

    I know I said in my last post that I would no longer be asking questions because it seems like without question people felt more free to discuss whatever they find interesting in the episode. But base on some comments that people have made, and the fact that I too like having questions to answer while watching the episodes, I decided that I will keep going with asking questions. But please remember that doesn't mean that you can't ask your own questions and comment on whatever you want about the episode. This is suppose to be an activity in which we discuss the episodes with each other, so all comments and observations are welcome. I'm really enjoying doing this because I like reading and responding to people's comment and I hope others feel the same way.

    Here are the questions: Remember to post your response to these questions before reading others response.


    1. Do you think Shane made the best decision he could in the Otis situation? Why?

    2. What do you think of Lori telling Rick that maybe it would be better if Carl died ?

    3. What did you think of the Glenn/Maggie scenes ?

    4. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .

    5. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)

    @Sasha's Living Room @lovingdead @Katbird @Flower1petals @Caribbeanqueen11 @MrsG @chaundee @Gooey Goobert @Canuckgirl @Jetamors
    @TexasZAgal

    I'm going to keep posting the plan for this club in every post, going forward for at least the first few weeks so that those who are joining us for the first time can get the info. For those who read it in the last post, just skip it and go to the questions.

    1. We watch two episodes per week. Wednesday and Sunday. We spend the days in between each episode discussing the episodes. So we have would have a 3 days to watch and discuss each episodes.

    2. I will try to post at least 3 questions in each new episode post but that doesn't mean that's the only thing we can discuss. If people have other comments, or questions base on the episode, they are free to post them and add them to the discussions. The questions that I be posting is just like something to break the ice, nothing more. So people don't have to feel obligated to only talk or respond to these questions. This discussion is free for all type of style as long we try to stay within the context of the episodes.

    3. The post for each episodes will be posted in the seasons thread with a poll for each episodes.
     
  2. Flower1petals

    Flower1petals Den Mother

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    I'm so far behind, sorry every one. I have to catch up, but season 2 is my least favorite, so I'm dragging my butt on watching it. Maybe I'll appreciate the character building during the second time around. The "looking for Sophia" arc just took so long to finish up, it lost me. I gave up on it and read recaps until it was over.
     
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  3. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Should this be 2.03 or am I just not seeing the thread for that one?
     
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  4. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    Hurrah, I just finished watching! A few random thoughts:

    Daryl is really funny in these earlier seasons! I had almost forgotten.

    Is the "Little Bird" tattoo Shane's or Jon Bernthal's?

    It was a terrlble, selfish decision. If I had to name a fatal flaw for Shane, it would be zero-sum thinking. Is there anything else they could have done? I don't know, and neither did Shane. Maybe Otis had an idea, or thought/knew that they were close enough to the car to outrun the zombies, but Shane didn't ask him; he just kneecapped him. (They even could have had a discussion while hobbling about whether someone should stay back--but of course, there would be better arguments for Shane with his bum leg sacrificing himself than Otis.)

    Well I'm certainly not in favor, but I could see where she was coming from. I thought it was interesting that she brings Jacqui up (is this the last time Jacqui is mentioned, I wonder?). Also I complained a while ago that Rick never seems to take Lori's opinions into account, but this is one case where he definitely does: she has the last word on whether or not to operate on Carl without a respirator.

    I really liked them! Glenn/Maggie kind of came out of nowhere to me the first time I watched, but it's a lot more obvious to me this time. She's definitely into him, and when Otis dies, he's the one she talks to.

    Eeh, could have been worse, but certainly could have been better. (BTW, why was the scene with Dale leaving Carol on the roof of the RV even there? Did that have anything to do with anything?)

    No changes to the female zombie kill count. Otis took some down before he died, so we're still in a situation where most male characters have killed zombies, but only one female character has.

    For some reason I had a really low opinion of Otis the first time I watched, but I can't remember why now. On rewatch, he seems like a great guy, and competent too. Maybe I was taking Lori's POV and couldn't see past him being the jerk who shot Carl.
     
  5. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Very good episode. I think of this episode as a significant turning point in the story. Human relationship wise and an understanding of how the world is now. (What will you--you in the general sense--do? Who will you be? What will you become?). I kinda interpret most of this episode in those terms. A time-to-chose theme that the writers are presenting. Every time I think I can wash my hands of Shane, I start to vacillate--again. ( I need to chose already! lol). I have to admit, after that scene in the bathroom, maybe I'm being influenced by other factors. Dude has like 4% body fat. Maybe I need a different approach...lol.
    1. Maybe it wasn't the best choice, but what he did saved Carl. If he hadn't hurt himself, I think they both would have made it back. I had forgotten it was that walker that caused him to hurt his ankle. He just dropped rather than made his jump. Otis definitely was thinking, looking for solutions, but Shane was hurt, which made him, and the situation, desperate. I don't like having to agree that it was right, so I will say it was the only vialable choice, from his POV...maybe...I guess...idk, uugghh!

    2. Lori and Rick...how in the world did those two end up together? They do not see the world, pre or post ZA, the same at all. They needed *eharmony* or something, my goodness! I guess it's a true case of opposites attracting. It was a revealing scene. She seemed sorry she left the CDC. Rick is not a quitter and he was disappointed she had been thinking about that option, even in the respect of rejecting it, talking herself out of "opting out". I can't imagine a world gone crazy ,but it's too easy to give up, I think she would want to push forward, already be thinking about what could be, how they could manage to carve out a life...Rick already is. I know it is damn hard to see/think about your child suffering any kind of pain or hardship...her reaction makes sense, but parents usually think about the future, the end game, when it comes to their children. She seems to have lost, at least in that moment, that perspective. But, Rick told her, told her in no uncertain terms, he (Carl is not better off dead, where there is life, there is hope.). The look on his face when he tells her about the deer: " I understand and I love you, but don't say that to me again."

    3. Good scenes, I think, especially the talk at the refrigerator. I see the start of a different Glenn in that scene. He responds in a manly way toward her...Glenn sees her need and takes care of it. He helps, tries to help, her get what she needs...comfort, an acknowledgment of her loss and pain. He came through like a champ. (A lot of that in this episode--the man thing--good and bad.)

    4.The way they write for the women--hmm- a lot of uncomfortable, IMO, images being presented. Lori sitting at Rick's feet, Andrea and Daryl in the woods, Carol talking to Dale. The thoughts "subordinate and dependent" come to mind. Daryl gets up to get away from Carol's crying and Andrea's nervous energy, like: "These girls are getting on my last nerve...let me get up outta here." On Daryl and Andrea's walk in the woods, I always wondered why she didn't get mad at Daryl for calling her out about wanting to give up, she was mad a Dale for basically the same thing. He didn't take her gun, but he was chiding her for thinking about "opting out". Carol goes up on the RV because, she is worried about Sophia, of course...she tells Dale Daryl can/will protect Andrea, gosh, not even a question as to who protects and who needs porotecting whatsoever. Glad that changed.

    5. I have watched so many times, see different aspects/things every time. Rick hugging Hershel. I had not paid much attention to that, it didn't really register. Those two were bonding right away. (From how Rick references his father and grandfather later, I see why. Immediate trust...the older male/mentor/father-son relationship is extremely important/held in high esteeme to/by Rick. I like that. I had not noticed how upset I was by Shane shaving his head--I see that as a cathartic act, a dramatic change/shift. Jon Berenthal did an amazing job playing Shane, he was excellent. This re-watch, I notice some of the things that make Shane and Rick different, trying to anyway. Shane seems so impulsive, not as thoughtful as Rick.. Shane has a real problem with boundaries, Rick is very invested in structure, order. I noticed that Daryl must be a reader/have interests that aren't stereotypical. He already mentioned being "zen", then references Tibet...maybe he is/was a practicing Buddhist, adopted some of the tenants of Buddhism. Buddhism appeals to off-beat, unconventional types...that would explain him not having sex/being celibate.
    I'm starting to ramble far a field...I can never just stop. My bad.
     
    #5 Katbird, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  6. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    My notes on the episode:


    I really loved how this episode started with Shane shaving his hair off. It was like he was trying to make the outside of himself look the same as his inside. It was like he felt he was the villain in the story, so he was going to transformed himself into it. I felt so bad for him that moment. It was like he finally gave-up trying to be good or trying to conformed to what people see as a good guy. He was giving-up trying to play the good best-friend to Rick. I think killing Otis is what truly destroy Shane because he has been struggling to be good guy, but kill Otis, basically irrefutable prove to himself that he would never be the good guy. I wished he had talked to Rick because I think or hope that Rick could have talked him through this crisis. I just felt really sad for Shane in this episode. I was almost in tears for him because JB did a great job of showing Shane inner struggle with himself.


    I don’t understand why Carol didn’t go with Daryl when he said that he was going to look for Sophia instead of laying in bed crying. I didn’t like that.


    I loved that T-Dog was clearly not in any real position to give aid to them but he still kept offering it. I really liked that.


    CR is such a good a little actor. This re-watching is seriously making me hate how little the writers have giving CR in recent seasons.


    Seriously, this rewatch is not doing Dale any favors in my eyes. Before this rewatch, I was indifferent to Dale. But now that I’m paying attention to him, I’m really disliking him. The scene where he was giving Andrea back her gun was going good. I was liking how he was acknowledging his wrong and all that jazz. But then he had to go and open his mouth and ask her if she forgive him ? I was like seriously Dale, seriously. It was like everything he just said was nothing more than just him trying to manipulate or weasel himself back into her good grace. Dale truly need to just back up where Andrea is concern. He is starting to look really obsessed with her.


    Also, were the writers doing a chemistry test between Andrea and Daryl? I just found it interesting how the writers had them in scenes with each other being open and honest each other. I actually liked their scenes together.

    1. Do you think Shane made the best decision he could in the Otis situation? Why?
    It was clear to me that Shane was really trying to make sure that Otis came back with him alive. It seems like Shane did everything he could think of to make sure that both of them stayed alive. Until the end, when Shane realized that the situation had became so bad both of them would die if something wasn't done. So while I hate, hate that Shane did what he did. I get it. I think base on the situation and the fact that Shane seems like he couldn't think of anything else to do, I can't really fault him for what he did. I just wished he had shoot Otis in the head or the heart so Otis wouldn't feel the pain of those walkers ripping into him.


    2. What do you think of Lori telling Rick that maybe it would be better if Carl died ?
    I get where Lori was coming from. The world has turned into hell and she doesn't want her little boy in it. She doesn't want to see him suffer. I get it but I disagree with it.

    I was one of those people who used to think that if Lori had survived the birth of Judith, she would become less like a Jessie and more like a Maggie. But this episode makes me question that thinking because compare to what Lori have seen in that moment with what we know happens later on, I don't think she would have. I mean they just started this journey and she already thinks it would be better for Carl to die than to survive and try to make it in the world. That makes me question her strength and her ability to adapt in the new world.
    3. What did you think of the Glenn/Maggie scenes ?
    I think their scenes was a really great start to what was going to happen later on.

    4. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .

    I think it has improved because women are trying to do their part in helping the group in whatever way they can. There wasn't a separation of the sexes in this episode which I liked.

    5. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)

    I noticed the beginning of Maggie/Glenn relationship. I also noticed Andrea and Daryl scenes which I thought was interesting because of how open Daryl was with Andrea. Despite the fact that Daryl have been acting like he doesn't care about the others in the group and is just doing things with them because he kind has too, I liked that he cared enough to want to know how Andrea was feeling. I liked that he wasn't demanding or acting like he knows better how Andrea should feel. He just cared enough to pay attention to her and kind enough to ask her how she was dealing with things.

    So I really, really liked the Daryl and Andrea scenes. That was the first time I cared or even liked Andrea in a scene.

    Sorry for any typos, I will fix it when I get back home.
     
    #6 SevenStars, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
  7. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    1. Do you think Shane made the best decision he could in the Otis situation? Why?
    It sucks that Shane turns into a psychopath, because he really was trying to save Carl, but he just really is way beyond the point of return and has zero honor now. Shane becomes for real evil Shane from here out. I mean they were almost out of there. Something flipped in him and it was very ugly. I had already marked him as irredeemable but this is just so over the top. He has no regard for this man, or his friends and family, who was trying to do the noble thing in light of his near fatal mistake. I didn't expect anything more but for him to lie to the group when he came back, but what made it an even worse look is to not even step up to the man's widow and tell his big fat lie. The shade of it all!!! And guess who steps up? Rick and Hershel. If Rick would have killed that man he would have done it, said he did it and then said, "What?" But see the thing is Rick wouldn't have ever done it.

    2. What do you think of Lori telling Rick that maybe it would be better if Carl died ?
    I didn't like it but sometimes I get it. I can be cynical in dark situations and go to a maybe better off dead scenario. I liked what she said regarding Jacqui. I liked the character but see the purpose of her death and what it forces TF to confront. It would be easy to slip into an ignorance is bliss philosophy in this world. I think Lori was trying to preserve her son'e innocence and make peace with what she felt could have been a blessing in disguise. The irony is Rick makes mention of the beautiful, innocent moment Carl got to witness just before. I mentioned in another thread that Rick has a poetic quality to him. Not all spacey and obnoxious, but a quiet, reflective softness and it comes out in this moment. Rick knows Carl, or any of them, could die later but he wants his son to keep having these moments as long as he can. Rick mentions there could be a place for them and Lori doesn't see it. It's interesting because Rick seems to have his glimmers of hope after a tragedy happens or when somebody else needs to hear it. I heart this man so much.

    This was another moment that showed Lori is not cut out for this world. Rick adapts, she doesn't.

    3. What did you think of the Glenn/Maggie scenes ?
    So cute. They were feelin' each other from jump. It wasn't sexy like Richonne, but it was kinda shy and adorable. Glenn was my first TWD crush and it really is apparent why in this episode. He is very handsome and while he can be goofy, he is super thoughtful. Him attempting to pray for this family that has come into his life is amazing. He never once mentions what he lost, yet cares about these new people, and asks Maggie about her losses. He is always about empathy. I am excited to observe LC in this role more. Just recently have I started noticing that she isn't an amazing actress, yet I still like her. I know it is mostly due to Gleggie that like her. Her accent is way off. What I notice otherwise is that she has amazing chemistry with a few people, Stephen first and foremost, but can't have great command of a scene on her own. Like we have seen Glenn alone and he is still great. I don't think she could carry a bottle episode or even many solo scenes. I think she is effective for the role though and will continue to grow her talent with more challenges.

    4. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .
    Andrea is boring. The conflict between her and Dale is getting tiresome at this point. We have been discussing LH and Andrea a lot lately in the other threads and it is so interesting that FD thought she had potential to be the leading lady as Rick's woman later. Talking about how Rick and Andrea wouldn't have worked is one thing, but more importantly is the fact that this character and actress would have never worked as the lead. Andrea is kind of one note. We got more when her sister was around but otherwise she's kind of bland. Her tough girl act has already grown stale and she doesn't seem to have a lot of substance. Plus, the way LH plays this character does not make her endearing or like someone you can't wait to see again and miss when they are gone. Also, there is no mystery to her that you want to discover. She's just flat.

    Also, where is Beth? Is she just making out with her boyfriend (while thinking about DILF Rick) somewhere? I hate it when characters just disappear without explanation. Most of the drama is centered in her home right now, which will be the main location this season, so it's kind of bizarre that she is M.I.A.

    5. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    Kind of random but I just realized Scott Wilson (Herschel) is an actor from one of my favorite classic movies, In Cold Blood. I knew I always liked him for a reason. He is super young in the movie and plays a murderer. It is a true story that was dramatized by Truman Capote who actually befriended the murderers the story depicts.

    At this point in the story it should be obvious that Sophia is dead or at least that if she is found something is horribly wrong. I mean there is like a 1% chance she is being cared for by some nice people... that may become part of TF later. Oh wait... see the irony since that is exactly what Daryl implies with his farmhouse comment? But yeah we have already met her fate in a sense at this point and it should have been clear that Sophia was long gone. I think the first go round I naively thought maybe they would still find her, ok not really, but this go round I think it was pretty obvious they were searching in vain and meeting the Greenes solidified it.

    Ok, the Otis and Shane adventure wasn't that well executed. When we see Shane fighting solo in the beginning and the first few moments of Otis trying to keep up it's good. But the whole thing starts to drag and I wished they had spent more time with other characters or made this more compelling. Then the way Shane killed him was so strange. I mean yes they were being chased by a herd but they weren't that far behind to me. It was as oddly staged as the Rick/Sophia/walker sequences.

    Ok, how does Daryl always have arrows? I see him retrieve them at some times but he has the least practical weapon. It's not like a gun because many people have guns in the South so ammo is around even if scarce. I think it's cool that he's the Archer and all so I will suspend my disbelief. I'm glad he makes the comment about wasting an arrow to at least acknowledge this with a wink.
     
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  8. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I honestly think now that Shane ad Otic would have probably been fine. I think Shane's pent up aggression came out and he took it out on Otis and it was a chance to play hero to Carl and Lori. It's like oh Rick has his blood?-whatever I got this respirator and I'll be damned if Otis shares the glory. Maybe, maybe not this was in his head, but I kind of think that's how it played out subconsciously for Shane.

    I think Rick is always asking Lori what she thinks. He may not go with it but he cares enough to ask and consider. He does the same with Michonne, the difference is Michonne is equal as far as leadership and he will side with her. Lori isn't on that level to make survival decisions, but Rick still asks her.
     
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  9. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Eh, if Shane had enough time to scuffle with Otis they had enough time to get to the truck. He freaked out and went animal mode for no reason. That's the thing, he lashes out impulsively. Remember at the CDC when his first instinct was to kill Jenner meanwhile Rick asked him questions, thought, strategized, then acted. Much better outcome. Shane was violence first.

    I think Rick also saw strength in Carl to be able to make it in this world. Lori was blind to it. In a way, I thin Rick saw himself in Carl and knew he was survivor too. He goes on about the beautiful moment with the deer. One thing I recall about that scene and that I loved upon viewing is that Rick was just as in awe as Carl. I think Carl and Rick have an equal capacity for gentleness and violence. They are very much alike. Lori only sees herself in Carl.

    Glenn does kind of man up to comfort Maggie. He has always been a leader with the team, but this is a moment of emotional maturity.

    I heart Rick and Hershel. They are a good father/son ship like Rick and Carl.

    Sidenote: I see you apologizing for rambling in your posts. I don't really feel you need to be self conscious if you are comfortable with what you write. We all go on trying to express ourselves here. I feel like my posts are epic at times, haha. No worries girlfriend!
     
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  10. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I have similar thoughts/ feelings about Shane struggling with himself, trying to figure out who or what he should be. It seems so easy for Rick. I mean, for him to do the right thing, as he sees the right thing. Rick says in his talk/pray it is so hard to know what is right, that his choices are right, But from Shane's POV, Rick's instinct to do good makes him (Rick) superior, and it is understood between the two of them. I wonder if Shane thinks: "It is so easy for him...he does the thing that is good, not the thing that is easy." One of my goals while doing the re-watch, silly though it may be, was to see clear differences between Shane and Rick. To finally put my "issues" , my Shane codependency, lol, to rest,... get a set of prtocols to follow when I start "but he...well, he had to....Shane is Rick's brother...", etc., etc. Your way of putting it, that Shane was giving up the struggle, giving in to that self he had been fighting with or against, makes sense. A great observation.

    I wonder too if they, the creatives, were test driving the chemistry between Daryl and Andrea. Hmmm, interesting.
     
    #10 Katbird, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
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  11. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    At this point Shane is isolating himself which is never good when someone is becoming unstable.

    And more of Carol moping and doing nothing while others look for Sophia. I can't. I think I started off disliking Carol early on. I start liking her more later but I'm always back and forth with her.

    I think Chandler is underrated. I'm starting to think now that even I have underrated him at times. I always liked Carl even when he's bratty.

    I missed these Gleggie moments before. I never knocked them for getting together when they did, but had agreed with others that it was all of a sudden. Now I see the early signs.

    Maybe TPTB knew Randrea was out so were trying something else?
     
    #11 lovingdead, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
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  12. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    It should be 3. I really don't understand why I keep messing up. I'll ask doc to change it for me.
     
  13. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    It happens. I just didn't wanna post in the wrong thread.
     
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  14. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    I think that's definitely possible! I'm still not really sure how much good faith to extend to Shane at this point; I feel like he wants to be A Hard Man Making Hard Choices, and some of it is definitely self-interest, but how much of it is conscious and how much of it is malicious? I think there's a wide range of possible interpretations. It's what makes him such an interesting character, IMHO.

    The thing is, he asks her what he thinks, but usually then he just goes and does what he wants to do anyway. I mostly think he does have better judgement than she does (at least in the ZA), so I don't really see it as reflecting negatively on Rick. But I can put myself into Lori's shoes too, and wow, I would be ten times more resentful and angry than she is.
     
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  15. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Jetamors,

    It was selfish, self-preservation, and also about Carl decision. They didn't have time to really talk because the walkers were right behind them and they had no way to run and hide and think about the best way for both of them to get out of the situation alive. Shane probably thought that if Otis had plan or solution to how they could both survived he would have spoken up when they talked about running out of bullets.


    Me too, I had forgotten how they began. That might be the reason I never liked them. Now that I'm paying attention to how they begin, maybe that will make me like/love them. But it would be the worst possible time too considering what is coming.:gabe:
    D:.

    He was a great guy, which is why I was sad when Shane killed him.
     
    #15 SevenStars, Jul 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
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  16. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I think Lori is just being level headed in her own way and she knows Rick is a survivor and was a deputy. I don't think he can just side with her to side with her if he doesn't think it's a good call and she knows that. I think she is frustrated that they aren't o the same page more than oh he doesn't listen to me.I think they are both listening but are just not on the same level. Some people fault Lori for not siding with Rick at all times and I don't think that's true. They are entitled to consult but make their own calls. They are all in life and death situations so decisions can't be about making the other person feel good. I just think Rick and Michonne vibe better. He always knows she is making the right decision. When he asks Lori it is out of respect and wanting to be on the same page. With Michonne it's that plus he knows she will make the right call.
     
  17. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    Yeah, I definitely agree. Leaving aside the matter of whose judgement is objectively better, Lori and Rick are rarely on the same page, whereas Rick and Michonne have very similar judgment, and I think that's really important for a relationship. (Though I do think Lori and Rick are much more in sync when it comes to Carl, which makes me a bit sad for what might have been; I think if they had divorced before the ZA, they'd be able to amiably co-parent and they'd probably all be happier. Well, until the ZA, I guess.)
     
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  18. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Yes, and Michonne can sway Rick when they don't start out on the same page. He never changed his mind with Lori. Like with Washington and ASZ, he didn't even fully believe in it but he trusted her enough to agree and also cared enough about pleasing her to try. But it wasn't blindly following because he trusts her intuition at the end of the day. And if it didn't work out he knew with her by his side it would work out because that's what they do together. If a decision didn't work out with Lori he was on his own plus had to protect her.
     
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  19. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I get what you are saying and that's why I no longer agree that Lori would have turn into a Maggie or Carol if she hadn't died from giving birth to Judith. But in this case I get why Rick and Lori was coming from two different position. Rick didn't see the world end, therefore, he still has hope that somehow, somewhere things will get better sooner or later. But Lori was wide awake to see the world turn into hell. She probably spent the first few days when Z.A started happening thinking that somehow things were going to get better. That this crisis they were in would end somehow. But days gone by, and she was force to witness the hell that the world had turn into. That means that she has pass the phased that Rick is in right now and I don't think she would ever be like that again because she seems to be someone who needs things to be a certain way in order to be hopeful. She seems like someone who looks at the negative more than the positive.


    I interpreted these scenes differently.

    To me, Daryl leaving the RMV to go search for Sophia was not about him not wanting to be around these weepy women but about seeing the pain that Carol was in and wanting to do something about it instead of just sitting there and feeling sorry for her. He wanted to be doing something to stop the pain she was going through.

    Andrea didn't yell at Daryl unlike Dale because Daryl's approached was different. He came at her like an adult who was curious about her state of mind and what she was feeling now that she has seen the result of someone taking their own life. He wasn't treating her like a child but like an adult. That's where Dale always go wrong with Andrea. Dale is always acting and treating Andrea like she is a kid, not a grown ass woman.

    Carol assumed Daryl would be the one to protect Andrea because Andrea have not shown her ability to protect herself or those around her, unlike Daryl, who has been showing those abilities. So to me, Carol was just making the logical assumption that Daryl would be the one doing the protecting like he has in the past.

    With all of this said, I hate that the writers wrote Andrea in such a way that neither Dale or Carol thought she could take care of herself.

    Shane shaving his head made me really sad because I realized that's when he stop trying to be a better him. That's when he decided that he was a villain, therefore, he wanted to look like one. I hated it. I also notice the things you mentioned about Shane and that's one of the reasons I don't think he could have been a good leader.

    Please don't worry about rambling, this is a discussion activity, therefore, you can post whatever comes to you. And you might be right about Daryl. I didn't noticed these things you mentioned but you might be onto something.
     
    #19 SevenStars, Jul 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
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  20. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    @lovingdead,


    Damn you are really harsh on Shane, please tell me how you really feel, :lol::lol::lol:. I don't agree that Shane was psychopath but I do agree that killing Otis was the breaking point for Shane. I think that's when Shane decided to become the villain in the story to Rick's good guy.

    Totally agree with this. This is one of the reason I no longer agree with the believe that Lori would have adapted in this world and become better able to handled it. I think if Lori had survived, the only reason she wouldn't have killed herself is because of her children. But otherwise, I could see her killing herself when she realized that the world was never going to change back to the way it was before and that she was the one who was going to have to adapt to it.

    I have to agree with this, like I said in a previous post, LH was miscast as Andrea. I actually think in the hands of another actor, Andrea might have been a character the audience sympathize with, even when they didn't understand or hated her actions.
     
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