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Poll TWD-RE-WATCH: TS-19 1X6

Discussion in 'Season 1' started by SevenStars, Jun 26, 2016.

?

What grade would you give 1x5 ?

This poll will close on Dec 26, 2018 at 6:27 PM.
  1. A

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. B

    5 vote(s)
    83.3%
  3. C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Hi everyone and welcome to any new member who are joining us,

    Well this is the last episode of S1, I hoped you enjoyed re-watching and discussing the episodes as much as I did. It was not only interesting to re-watch the episodes with a more critical eyes but also fun to read your views on things. I hope we can continue to do this and more people will join us.

    1. Base on the flash-back, do you think Shane made the right decision telling Lori that Rick was dead ?

    2. What did you think of Dr. Jenner ?

    3. Did you agree or disagree with Dale's action in regard to Andrea ? Why?

    4. Do you think the writing for the women improved over the season?

    5. Did this season improved upon re-watched or worst ?

    6. 1.What would say was the theme of this season?

    Like always, I will be posting my comments and answers later.

    @Sasha's Living Room
    @lovingdead @Katbird @Flower1petals @Caribbeanqueen11 @MrsG @chaundee @Gooey Goobert Goobert @Canuckgirl @Jetamors @TexasZAgal
    @Braskas Nice

    I'm going to keep posting the plan for this club in every post, going forward for at least the first few weeks so that those who are joining us for the first time can get the info. For those who read it in the last post, just skip it and go to the questions.

    1. We watch two episodes per week. Wednesday and Sunday. We spend the days in between each episode discussing the episodes. So we have would have a 3 days to watch and discuss each episodes.

    2. I will try to post at least 3 questions in each new episode post but that doesn't mean that's the only thing we can discuss. If people have other comments, or questions base on the episode, they are free to post them and add them to the discussions. The questions that I be posting is just like something to break the ice, nothing more. So people don't have to feel obligated to only talk or respond to these questions. This discussion is free for all type of style as long we try to stay within the context of the episodes.

    3. The post for each episodes will be posted in the seasons thread with a poll for each episodes.
     
    #1 SevenStars, Jun 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
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  2. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    Not sure if I said this before, but thanks so much for doing these!

    Noooooooo, no way. He should have told her the truth. That decision, and the attempted rape, were what made me hate Shane from this episode onward.

    I dunno, nothing in particular. He seemed more like a plot device than a character.

    So he's moving heaven and earth to keep Andrea from committing suicide, and not even glancing at Jacqui who's in the same room making the same decision? Did they not know how that was going to look filmed?

    (I think Jacqui was generally robbed, aside from maybe the first episode. Like, this one conversation between T-Dog and Jacqui is the only indication at any point in the series that they were romantically involved, right? I'm really glad the show's done so much better by Michonne and Sasha.)

    No, but it's only six episodes, so that's not surprising.

    This is my first time rewatching this season. I'm not sure if I find it better or worse, but it's definitely different watching it and knowing what's going to come.

    Hmm, it's hard for me to say because I don't really think of the seasons that way. Words that come to mind are "help", "trust", "secrets".

    And a few notes I made that don't relate to your questions:

    If they were planning to do Rick/Andrea in season 1, I don't think they did a very good job of building it. They had a good conversation in the first episode, but they've barely interacted since then.

    Carol stuff: GJ with the grenade! And she's claustrophobic? Does that ever come up again?

    Something I noticed looking back on the season as a whole: they've shown most of the women interacting, but Lori seems weirdly walled-off from all of them. She only seems to have conversations with Rick and Shane and Carl. Or am I forgetting something? I might be.

    I never really questioned it the first time I watched, but does the CDC really have bunkers full of long-term housing?

    Also, the first time I watched, I remember wondering whether this would be their last hot shower. I guess at this point (S6) the last hot shower will be whenever Alexandria's generators finally die?
     
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  3. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    This episode is always so hard for me to watch. I had to wait a while before I posted. The reactions to finding out the situation at the CDC, that everything, everywhere, was gone...(I always refuse to believe that, lol, cock-eyed optimist), the scene with Lori and Shane, Jacqui's choice--Dr. Jenner, as well, Rick"s admission (an aside: Rick should never drink, he does not handle alcohol well...poor guy), it is very heart-wrenching for me. I cried...have seen it many times, but I cried. I can't watch it straight through---I have to pause and come back to it...I can't take it. Too much.

    1. I am conflicted, as usual, when it comes to Shane, about him telling Lori that Rick was dead. Why did he do that? I want to believe he genuinely thought Rick had died...his reaction when he listened at Rick's chest, he covered Rick's eyes/ face, he was touching him and touching him, it makes me tear up, every time.
    But, when he is talking to Lori, his words give him away?, I think. ..."listened to a heartbeat, not for a heartbeat...nobody could have survived". That word choice tells me he thought Rick was going to die, but wasn't dead when he left him. It bothers me, more and more, it bothers me. So having said that, I am so reluctant to admit this, he should not have told her that. (And, he as much as said it, she wouldn't have left the city without Rick., was the reason he told her---why didn't she say back to him "Hell, no, I wouldn't have left my husband"...there is always something with those two, isn't it). He should have let her make her own choice, let her see after her husband. The men in the weaving part of this narrative really dominate the women, at least at this point of the story.
    2.I liked the character and like Noah Emmerich...ahhh, Noah *sniff, sniff*. He was already suicidal before they came, he knew what he was going to do before they were in there with him. What could he do...knowing what he knew concerning the virus and all the crap in the faciity? Of course, I'm glad he let them try, I'm glad he told Rick about everyone being infected...which I don't want to accept that either, lol. He was so determined /resigned to doing what he promised his wife. And, seeing that the protocol to protect, what was left of humanity, was his goal, his job. He put on his work clothes, got dressed for work. Omg, this show. (I'm getting upset...I better stop on that one.)
    3. I think he thought he was doing the right thing...he was so clear headed during the whole thing with Jenner, asking questions, staying calm. He had feelings for Andrea, I get it. I can't ever figure out the nature of those feelings, but he does have them. But, no, I don't agree with him using that tactic with Andrea. It was out of line.
    4.I'll say, it stayed pretty much the same... not good. The writers were making a point, I'm sure, so I do see why the women were written in that subordinate way, dependent and in need of protection. I know they were driving home the point of the way things were with the structure of society gone, which serves to clarify the setting, an upended world. It actually was probably the easiest way for them to tell the audience, people like me, not familiar with the comic how things were. Cause I sure noticed the precarious situation women were in, good grief. That scene with Shane put it right up front. That was a good way, to say to the audience: "Here it is. Get it now? This is the way things are.". They stopped using the paintbrush and went with the hammer.
    5. I think I learn/see something different each time I watch. I remember how sorry I was for them the first time I watched. If it had not been for Rick's intuitive question to Dr. Jenner they wouldn't have been able to try. Carol saved them that time, too! I think it has improved for me. Maybe it has to do with it being a bit more sharply written, due to it being only six episodes.
    6. The theme, hmmm...I think we are supposed to see that, believe it are not, actually was what we got from Deanna, who you are, who you were before, matters. The self you were before the turn came with you. Now, use it to live. Maybe the person didn't know who/what that self was, but it was there all along. The point made over and over, was, " We can keep going, different, but the same. As long as there is life, there is hope." I like that.
     
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  4. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    This is one of a few things Shane does that are so morally complex, I don't really have an answer for whether I agree with them or not. What I can say is that I will always give him credit and be grateful for Shane trying his best to save Rick.

    I liked and totally sympathized with him EXCEPT that he should have given them the choice to stay or go before the half hour was up. That was such a wtf moment for me, the first time, because he's so down-to-earth and reasonable other than that.

    Disagree. If he hadn't run off with the others first then it might be less clear, but we know what his true choice was from seeing him do that. Part of me wants to say Andrea shouldn't have left for his sake but I totally get why she did leave. The worst part, though, was Dale's "You don't get to do that" line. Making it all about him was the absolute height of selfishness to me. What happened to his advocacy for Jim's right to decide for himself from the last ep? And he's not even done trying to control her yet either. Sometimes Dale's paternalistic meddling is for the greater good of the group, and sometimes it isn't but I can forgive him anyway. This instance of his meddling though, I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive. (I don't know much about comic Andrea, but I think this is definitely one of those times it becomes very clear they didn't do her character any favours in the TV adaptation.)

    Not really. It's only 6 episodes but let's look at the women who survived to 1x6.

    Lori
    I understand she's confused and in severe panic-mode over her marriage to Rick, but she comes off as a "game-playing" manipulator. Has she changed at all? Nope, not yet. Before Shane tries to assault her in this ep, there is also a slight hint she might be softening toward him (you can see and hear it from her when he said he put his heart to Rick's chest-- great acting by SWC there). I really hate that they put his assault attempt in the same scene as that though. It makes it very hard (though certainly not impossible) for me to understand a certain direction she takes in S2).

    Carol
    I feel her character in S1 is a heavily stereotypical portrayal of a battered wife (not that there isn't a basis for this dynamic in reality, but it's the only form of partner abuse some people think exists and also the one that lends itself most easily to victim-blaming). Aside from perking up slightly since her husband died, she has not changed at all, yet.

    Jacqui
    She never gets to say or do much, and we have so little idea of who she is. I forgot to mention in the other threads, there's this weird pattern of her announcing things ("there are sewers beneath the building," "Jim's been bit!" and "He's taken a turn for the worse") and then she literally walks away and lets the men-folk decide what to do next, without any further input from her. She's clearly competent and aware of the situation they're in at any given time. I don't see why hardly anyone ever asks her opinion on anything, and she never volunteers it herself.

    Andrea
    The only character who gets some mild progression. It's not much, but in this episode in particular, she speaks up assertively and then tries to take control of her own fate before Dale interferes.

    Sophia
    Carl gets more speaking lines than ever. She gets one or two but why not more? And why didn't she get to try the wine? It was Dale's idea so I guess he's just being the patriarch again. Figures he'd try to make a man out of a little boy in the same ep he treats a grown woman like a child.

    It's only a small difference for me because I didn't care much for S1 even the first time, but I think I did like it better on my first watch, when certain flaws that I hadn't previously noticed were less apparent. The first time, I wondered how there could be such a large cast yet the only ones I really liked were Rick, Morgan, Duane, and Glenn.

    Don't get bit. :rickgrin:

    OK seriously though, I guess this season is about adjusting to the new world they're in. We're following Rick's POV and that's what he was doing. Interestingly, Shane seems to be presented as the one who is most advanced in this area on the one hand, but he's already showing signs of instability and simply doesn't have what it takes to be a good leader to the group.
     
  5. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Hey, look, I'm early for once.

    1. Base on the flash-back, do you think Shane made the right decision telling Lori that Rick was dead ?
    No. I understood why he lied. He hoped to get Lori and Carl out fast and believed that if Lori knew there was a chance Rick was alive, she might not leave, but that was not his decision to make. He should have told her, and then tried to convince her for the best case (i.e. leaving).

    I thought Shane did know Rick was alive in the hospital and left him. There was another thread on here where most people were convinced he didn’t hear a heartbeat and assumed Rick was dead that moment. When I first watched the show, I believed the former since they were pushing the, “Shane lied” angle, and I thought that came from him leaving Rick to die. That sounds cold, but I originally believed that Shane was weighing the pros and cons of bringing a comatose patient, and he realized in that moment, Rick was a goner, but he couldn’t bring himself to let Rick die, so he barricaded the door.

    Others that agreed with the latter stated that Shane didn’t hear a heartbeat, believed Rick was dead and closed the door so he wouldn’t have to see his friend’s body devoured. Having read that, I like to go with the latter interpretation because it leaves a lot of ambiguity and makes Shane more sympathetic.

    But even when Shane is confessing to Lori, it sounds like it could go either way. He said he didn’t hear a heartbeat, but then he was also convinced there was no way Rick could have survived the gunfire and the walkers, which to me could imply that he wasn’t certain that Rick was dead. And then he adds that he had to think about Lori and Carl and that if she thought for a minute Rick was alive, she wouldn’t have left without him. But why would she need to think that at all if Rick was truly dead? It looks like Shane was uncertain and made a haste call.

    2. What did you think of Dr. Jenner ?
    He was interesting for the episode he was in. Not much to add since a lot of the characters are painted with a broad stroke, and the details are added on later in the season. This season was more about laying down the foundation and setting the pieces than actually delving in deep.

    I have no idea why he thought any of the characters would be on board to die. They clearly sought this place as refuge, not to commit mass suicide. And why not just leave that option to them? Aside from dramatic tension, it just made no sense to not consult with them.

    3. Did you agree or disagree with Dale's action in regard to Andrea ? Why?
    If it was an action for anything other than keeping a person from committing suicide, I would have disagreed, but since this is suicide, I say use whatever you can in your can of arsenal. If that meant being overtly paternalistic, overbearing, and even selfish, go for it in this particular instance. Not to mention, given that Andrea was fresh from grieving, she definitely wasn't in the right frame of mind (not that anyone is when considering suicide).

    What ticked me off more than that is the complete and utter disregard for Jacqui who did the exact same thing as Andrea, but apparently doesn't warrant the same level of concern from Dale. All she got was a shrug of shoulders. I blame this more on the writing since Jacqui was essentially conceived just to be member from the group who dies with Jenner. But the writers should have considered how this would reflect on Dale. I say Dale since he was the only one to stay behind and tried to convince Andrea out of it. Everyone else I forgive because self preservation is big motivator. I also don't remember if later on Dale displays any guilt from Jacqui's death. I know in the deleted scene for S1, Rick does, so that only adds on to my negative opinion of Dale in that moment.

    4. Do you think the writing for the women improved over the season?
    Not particularly. It was the same old, same old. I was also upset that Lori's near rape was never addressed again. I don't think we ever get an apology from Shane either, who brushed this away with, "not like myself" as if that made the whole matter any better.

    5. Did this season improved upon re-watched or worst ?
    It didn't change my opinion that much. S1 did not rank high on my list, but I do think it lost some points after I watched it with more critical eye and read everyone else's thoughts on it. I do try to cut it some slack since it's 10 episodes shorter than the other seasons.

    6. 1.What would say was the theme of this season?
    Adaptation. There's this new world that the characters are thrust in, and they must learn to sink or swim.
     
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  6. idcabtthisish

    idcabtthisish The New Mrs. Grimes

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    CLEARLY I failed doing this.

    Please tag me at the S2 thread. I'll do better for that one I promise. Wednesdays and Sundays, right?
     
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  7. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    Yep, it's Wednesdays and Sundays. This Wednesday we start Season 2 episode 1. I still have to watch TS19 but I will likely watch it tomorrow night.
     
  8. idcabtthisish

    idcabtthisish The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I started a new job so I was getting in the hang of things. I'm in my second week so I should be okay now. I'll be able to watch on Wednesdays and Sundays.

    I wouldn't have made it this Sunday that was designated for the BET Awards LOL so it's best I just start fresh on Wed LOL

     
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  9. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    You're in Dallas now right? I hope you are enjoying the new job.

    Back on topic. If you fall a little behind no worries, still post your thoughts and catch up when you can. I still read posts from the prior shows from posters who may have watched a little later. I watched Wildfire (which was last Wednesday's scheduled watch) yesterday so I fall behind quite often especially when juggling work and social stuff. This weekend is Canada Day (Friday) and Monday is the US holiday so I'm sure a few of us may fall a little behind.
     
  10. idcabtthisish

    idcabtthisish The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I WAS in Dallas, I'm in DC now. And I LOVE it out here w/ all the Black Girl Magic overly conscious Afro-centric Black prideness, especially compared to Dallas w/ it's sometimes subtle sometimes not so subtle flat out racism. Couldn't DO IT. But it HAS been hard getting into the swing of things, but I'm getting into my routine, hence the ability to start S2 LOL. I'll catch up w/ S1 on Sunday since there's that marathon.

    NOT that I wanna give AMC any money or anything LOL

     
  11. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    These are just my notes while watching the episode:

    This episodes to me showed how much Shane did love Rick. The Lori situation confused him, made him angry with Rick while knowing he shouldn’t but he still loved Rick.

    I have seen people blame Lori for Shane attempted to assault her and watching that scene again, I don’t get how they could blame her. I understand why she didn’t tell Rick about what Shane did. But I wished she had, so that Rick could have beat the crap out of Shane. I didn’t feel sorry for Shane at all in that scene.

    I loved how Rick took down Shane after calling him brother several times. It was :lol:but at the same times, it show us once again that when push come to shove, Rick will do what it takes to save his family, even if it means taking down someone he considers to be his brother. My baby face Rick was ruthless and I loved that. Another interesting thing is how much Rick reminded me of Michonne on their way to Washington/ASZ.

    I really noticed Carol in this episode and I loved her in it. I loved that she was one of the few of them who wasn’t getting drunk but staying sobered to take care of the kids. I loved that when Jenner locked them in, she wasn’t thinking about herself but Sophia, not wanting her daughter to die this way. I loved that she found that grenade in Rick’s pants and kept it just in-case, it showed how resourceful she was even back then. She save them. But it also showed a sneaking side of her, because there was no reason for her not to have giving it to Rick when she found it.


    Also, this episode makes me realized how seriously they miscast Andrea for what they were going for. Laurie Holden might be a good actress but her vibed was cold. That made Andrea seems cold and made it hard for me to feel sorry for her or her pain.


    Daryl was just annoying to me in this episode but I liked that despite the fact that Jenner told them, the door was unbreakable, he was still trying in the background.


    1. Base on the flash-back, do you think Shane made the right decision telling Lori that Rick was dead ?
    Part of me think he made the right decision because Rick surviving in the hospital while in a coma was a miracle. So base on what he saw and him believing that Lori wouldn't have come with him to safety if she knew Rick might still be alive tells me that he was trying to do the right thing. But I hated that Shane took the decision out of Lori's hands. She had a right to know that her husband, the father of her child could still be alive. She had that right but Shane took it away from her. That wasn't right or fair and Lori had every right to be angry at Shane for that.

    2. What did you think of Dr. Jenner ?
    I didn't like how he tried to play god with their lives. It's fine that he wanted to die because he lost his wife and he lost hope. But it wasn't fair or right for him to try to forced all of them to die with him. I get he thought he was showing them mercy in a world that seems to have lost everything, but it still wasn't right. But I was glad to see that he was able to see reason when Rick talked to him and reminded him that, he got to decide whether he lives or die, the others should get that courteous too.


    3. Did you agree or disagree with Dale's action in regard to Andrea ? Why?
    I disagreed with it but I get why. Dale was a hypocrite when it comes to Andrea and respecting people’s right to decide how they will leave this world, but I understood why. It was caused he saw that Andrea was in deep depression over her sister. That she was still grieving, therefore, her ability to reason and make logically decision that wasn’t based on how she was feeling about her sister was questionable. I think he wanted Andrea alive long enough to deal with her sister make and make clear headed decision about her life.

    4. Do you think the writing for the women improved over the season?
    It didn't improved much but there were moments that showed the writers could do better by the women if they wanted to.

    5. Did this season improved upon re-watched or worst ?
    It improved upon re-watch because I think I missed a lot of things when I first watched it, like Rick always being a bad ass even back then, or Carol being resourceful even back then or Glenn being a really entertaining and interesting character.

    6. What would say was the theme of this season?
    I would say the theme of this episode was people losing things and people along the way but trying to convinced themselves that somehow, somewhere things were going to get better even when they don't truly believe that.
     
  12. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    No problem, I'm enjoying this too.

    I get what you are saying but I understood why he respect Jacqui's decision but not Andrea. The writers made a point of showing us the scene between him and Andrea in the bathroom because they wanted us to see Dale seeing how depressed Andrea. Therefore, later on Dale would assumed that Andrea's decision was not being done with clear head but in a haze of depression. While Jacqui was clear about what she wanted.

    (
    WAIT! HOLD-UP!!! T-dog and Jacqui were together ? T-dog being the only one who seems to really care about Jacqui staying was weird to me but I thought it was just the writers using race as the basis for T-dog caring whether Jacqui stayed or leave with them. What scene did I missed that showed they were more than just survivors together ?

    .

    True

    Maybe the writer were waiting till later on to really develop this relationship.

    I don't think so.

    I don't think you are forgetting anything. The women only seems to interact with each other when they are doing " womanly" chores but otherwise most of them seems to only interact with the men in their group out side of those moments or stayed to themselves.

    I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if they do just in-case of an emergency.
    Maybe but I'm assuming they will be working towards finding a more sustainable to have electricity.
     
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  13. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Also, I noticed how Dr. Jenner made a point to look at Carl and make a small comment to lighten him up but ignored Sophia, who he could have included in his comment and wink towards Carl since they are both children living in this difficult world.
     
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  14. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Whoa, you're absolutely right. It's an infinitesimal change on the surface of things, but all the same, Carol was resourceful and showed a hint of where her character would be headed in future. On first watch I was mystified as to why she kept the grenade discovery to herself, but it totally fits who she would become. I wonder if she had thought to use it but-- being who she was at the time-- lost the nerve and returned it to Rick instead.

    Another good point here. I think it's a shame how little we got to know both kids before Sophia died, but especially Sophia. Her story seems to be more about Carol's (and Daryl's) pain than it is her own.
     
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  15. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    Well, she calls him "sweetie" and touches his face in kind of an intimate way (haha, I feel weird typing that). IDK, maybe I'm wrong, but I'd always thought that meant they had been together in some sense.
     
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  16. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    1. Base on the flash-back, do you think Shane made the right decision telling Lori that Rick was dead ?
    No, He should have said exactly what happened. It was not his decision to make. He basically decided to craft the narrative himself. I do think he meant no harm and was trying to save Rick. He was running out of options and did the best he could. I had forgotten that the power went out. So yes, Shane did think it was a lost cause trying to sustain Rick at that point, but at least thought let him not be walker meal or get slaughtered by the military. It is a miracle Rick survived without medical assistance in a coma as long as he did. He was destined to survive and lead.

    2. What did you think of Dr. Jenner ?
    I get him until he decides to play god. At what point does he decide their doomed fate? Did he just want to grant them a day of serenity and had already decided to kill them all or had he not planned that and something switched in his head? He did say, "It all be ok," which makes me think he already knew what he was gonna do and thought he was being merciful. I feel as though when he explaining about his wife he is saying her genius was society's only hope and without her there is no chance of overcoming this plague. Not only was it the loss of his wife, it was the loss of his hope for a cure. I did not catch that the first viewing. I almost felt bad for him when he ws being bombarded with questions he had no answers to.

    3. Did you agree or disagree with Dale's action in regard to Andrea ? Why?
    I'm torn. I do think he should have granted her agency but I also feel for him. He really did love Andrea in an overbearing father kind of way. Who's to say what was right. Andrea never found any peace and died horrifically. Maybe she would have been better off perishing of her own will. I don't fault Jackie for giving up. The thing is Andrea still had hope somewhere. If she didn't she would have thought it best that Dale die with her. But she still had hope and wanted him to live. His action brought out that spark of possibility. There is no right answer to me.

    4. Do you think the writing for the women improved over the season?
    I still stand by my opinion that the writing was more realistic and setup to have the women be weak in the beginning for a reason. I can say the women start showing more agency and action as we progress. I don't think the women were particularly slighted because at this point we are having strong characterizations from the key players in the next two seasons, women included. Lori may not be a hero or anything but we get a lot of interaction. Does she need to be a badass to have her representation matter? Lori was never meant to become a warrior, that is part of her story. We see the first glimpse of Black Ops Carol with her sneaking that grenade. Like really Carol, haha. Love it, and then she goes back to the meek homemaker. She is beginning her gradual ascent to warrior but it will take time to be believable. Andrea is faced with loss and deciding the worth of her own mortality. And we know what happens to her later. She clings to society (at the expense of humanity) at all costs in the end. Jackie decided she no longer wanted to live in a world without hope. I think all of these stories are poignant. No the ladies don't have the dynamics of Rick and Shane (except Lori as the leading lady) but that's because the main arc right now is about those two and their conflict. We don't get much more from Daryl either besides some outbursts, Glenn goes back to comedy relief, T-Dog is the right hand man and Dale is the busy body. I don't think it's really that unbalanced as far as importance really when you break it down that way. The supporting men may fight more but the ladies are the emotional core at the moment.

    5. Did this season improved upon re-watched or worst ?
    I think I appreciate it more the second time around. I do catch more flaws but I also see more layers.

    6. 1.What would say was the theme of this season?
    A chance. Rick cites a chance a a reason to try the CDC and I'm wondering if Michonne mentioning a chance in season 5 is a call back to this. Every move they all are making is into the unknown. They could all just give up but they move onward. Until they arrive at the CDC they have no idea the true scope of the outbreak. By the end the only thing they can do is hope to prove Jenner wrong. There is a moment that everyone stops and looks at Rick as if they would all loose hope if he did. We learn that Rick considers everyone just biding time until they die but I feel like them having faith in him is what moves him to lead.

    Other thoughts:
    1. I'm wondering what the real CDC is like. It's enough to make me never want to move to Atlanta thinking what would happen if it were compromised. I shudder at the thought.
    2. I did forget that Daryl really was an ignorant redneck like Merle when we first meet him. He keeps insulting Glenn's ethnicity. He is also a real hothead. While Rick thinks ahead and intuitively asks Jenner and Vie(sp?) what is happening, Daryl's impulse (and Shane's) is to attack him before getting info. He's no use dead, duh guys. I still like Daryl's energy but seeing this let's me know that immaturity is still in him. He does strategize more now but can be reckless with emotion and selfish (hello season finale).
    3. Shane is a fucking creeper. I watched this episode after the previous and we get Shane creeping on Rick with a gun and creeping on Lori back-to-back. Any respect for him is gone now.
    4. Lori should have told Rick Shane attempted to assault her. It was the perfect moment for her to come clean. She should have before but this was sooo red alert talk to your husband before it's too late.
    5. It is canon that Rick can't really handle his liquor. Here he is adorable even though sloppy as hell then in season 5 we get creeper Rick drunk at Deanna's party and flirting with married women. It is also canon that Glenn should never drink, haha.
     
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  17. richonnelove

    richonnelove Ricktator

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    Alexandria uses Solar energy.
     
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  18. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I thought about that too but then we have to remember what was going in that hospital at the time and Rick's condition. Walkers were all over the place eating people, the military was basically killing anyone they saw alive and Rick was in a coma. Therefore, if Shane had tried to take Rick with him, both of them could have been killed, either by a walker or the military. Based on what I saw in that flash-back, Shane was lucky to make it out alive, so I can't fault him for leaving Rick behind. Also, based on the fact that Shane blocked Rick's door, that's tell me that he might have thought about coming back for Rick when everything was hectic at the hospital.



    I actually think he made that decision after Rick talked to him privately and he heard from them what was going on out there. Because before they came, he probably didn't really know how bad it was out there. He probably thought based on what they told him that they would be okay dying in the way that was less painful then they would if they die outside.



    This is a great point because if Andrea had truly lost hope and believed death was better than being a live, than she wouldn't have minded Dale dying with her. Just like Jenner, she would have thought it was her helping him out. So despite how Andrea was feeling and what she was saying to Dale, she had a little bit of hope left.


    I feel the same way.

    I agree with this. I think Rick's ability to keep hope alive in them even when everything is telling them it's hopeless is why they started and continued to follow Rick. I also think that's what makes Rick a great leader, the ability to keep people believing and moving forward is not easy. It's not something I think most of the characters back then or now have the ability to do, and this is something that is very important and needed in this new world.

    I didn't like how Daryl acted in the episode at all. The first time I watched it, I was so focus on seeing what they would do to save themselves against Jenner, that I didn't pay attention to him. But in this second viewing I was paying attention to him and I didn't like how hot-headed he was. But what I appreciated is that he seems like a more interesting character than his current self.

    I understood why she didn't tell him but I so wanted her to Rick because I wanted badly for Rick to beat the crap out of Shane. Shane didn't even have the decently to apologize to her one-on-one. If she wasn't going to tell Rick, I would have liked to see her punched him herself. I still can't understand how people can think that Shane's action in that scene was somehow Lori's fault. I don't hate Shane but there was no excuses for this action, and his drinking can't excuse it either because we seen him before and after lose act out- off control.
     
  19. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    My post wasn't clear. I meant Shane did what he thought was best so that Rick stood a chance of not being eaten or gunned down. My bad grammar didn't reflect that sentiment, haha. I also think Shane saw blocking the door as a chance to preserve Rick wether he survived or not. If he magically awoke, as he did, he would have a barrier of protection and if he didn't and died at least there would be a body to retrieve.

    Shane became inexcusable to me after the last two episodes. Part of my purpose in viewing again was to get more clarity on Lori and Shane. A lot of people in the fandom defend Lori and love Shane which caught by surprise and I wanted to know what I am missing because I loathed both of them upon first watch. I have already watched two episodes ahead of this one and things become even more defined for me. I do sympathize more with Lori at this point but still find fault because she chose to not tell Rick, she is still redeemable to me. I did sympathize more with Shane up until he has the gun pointed at Rick and he is now not redeemable in my eyes, especially after almost assaulting Lori. He crossed the line of trust.
     
  20. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I can't remember which video I found this in, but if you count the webisodes from the AMC website as canon, then there was apparently a woman in the hospital that was treating everybody there. It's part of "The Oath" (which appears to be the 3rd "season" of webisodes that all happen as prequels to the main story). The video I heard about this from made an interesting point that Rick's iv drip bags in the hospital were changed between when Shane left and when Rick woke up. There's even a different number of bags each time.

    You guys have won me over on Shane's lie being the wrong call btw, but I still believe he did the best he could to save Rick at that time. I also think it was better for him to give Rick a chance by protecting his room than it was for him to take the risk of removing him from those machines.
     
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