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Poll TWD Rewatch Club: Cherokee Rose 2x04

Discussion in 'Season 2' started by SevenStars, Jul 13, 2016.

?

What grade would you give episode 2x03 ?

This poll will close on Aug 13, 2019 at 6:52 PM.
  1. A

    5 vote(s)
    71.4%
  2. B

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. C

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    WOOHOOO, IT'S THAT TIME AGAIN !!!! lol.

    Hi guys,

    Once again we come to witness again the stupidity, the love, the heartbreak and crazy in TWD or what I like to call "Rick's world and everyone should just sit their ass down and live in it and love it!!!,:rickgrin::yay:. Anyway, in our last discussions I loved all the points that people brought up because it made me think more about the characters action/motivations. So I can't wait to see what you guys had to say about this episode, I'm wondering if @lovingdead find that loving feeling for Shane or if he is still on her hit list, which I'm sure @Caribbeanqueen11 would help her out with, :lol::lol::lol:.

    Here are the questions: Remember to post your response to these questions before reading others response.


    1.When Shane was telling his story of what happened with Otis, the camera pan to several of the characters with different looks on their faces. What do you think the writers wanted us to take away from that ?

    2. Do you think Lori meant it when she told Shane to stay and when she reiterated it again, when he tried to give her out an out ? Why do you think she did that ?

    3. Do you think Lori is pregnant for Rick or Shane?

    4.What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers)

    5. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)


    @Sasha's Living Room @lovingdead@Katbird @Flower1petals @Caribbeanqueen11 @MrsG@chaundee @Gooey Goobert @Canuckgirl @Jetamors
    @TexasZAgal


    I'm going to keep posting the plan for this club in every post, going forward for at least the first few weeks so that those who are joining us for the first time can get the info. For those who read it in the last post, just skip it and go to the questions.

    1. We watch two episodes per week. Wednesday and Sunday. We spend the days in between each episode discussing the episodes. So we have would have a 3 days to watch and discuss each episodes.

    2. I will try to post at least 3 questions in each new episode post but that doesn't mean that's the only thing we can discuss. If people have other comments, or questions base on the episode, they are free to post them and add them to the discussions. The questions that I be posting is just like something to break the ice, nothing more. So people don't have to feel obligated to only talk or respond to these questions. This discussion is free for all type of style as long we try to stay within the context of the episodes.

    3. The post for each episodes will be posted in the seasons thread with a poll for each episodes.
     
  2. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    LOL! Are we that obvious with our Shane hate?;)
     
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  3. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    My heart swelled with beautiful Shane hatred, which I'm pretty sure was the intended takeaway. I really liked @lovingdead 's comment about it last post: if Rick did something like that, he would own it and wouldn't lie about it. Really I think most/all of the current (S6) survivors would. But Shane takes the coward's way out here. He'd rather lie than honestly defend his own choices, which then raises the question of just how noble he thinks those choices were.

    Which raises an interesting parallel I hadn't thought of before: Carol made a similar Hard Choice and deals with the fallout in S4. While I think she also made the wrong decision there (please don't argue about it now! we can argue about it when we get to that episode!), she never actively lies about it, and she tells the truth when asked directly. Does Shane ever tell anyone what really went down with Otis?

    When I first watched, I thought that she was (still?) in love with him, and while she was trying to do the right thing by Rick, she had trouble giving up Shane entirely. I still feel mostly the same way, but on rewatch I wonder more about her actual feelings. I think the key is that 2x02 open: she'd been depending on Shane since Rick was shot. Is it really love? Or is it that she's afraid of not having him to depend on anymore? Both? It's hard to say too, because I don't think Lori has examined her own feelings, or even wants to do so.


    No idea. TBH I don't really think it matters, though there is a certain petty satisfaction in thinking that after all Shane tried (and failed) to do to make a family with Lori, their baby's parents are Rick and Michonne.


    The good: Well zombie is my favorite zombie from this season. Maybe my favorite in the whole show. I really like that Lori, Andrea, and Maggie are all involved in figuring out a solution and carrying it out. While it's a very minimal standard of writing good and interesting female characters, it's more than we've seen from most of the show so far, and it's nice to see Lori actually interacting with everyone else.


    The bad: uggghhhh Andrea. Or more properly, uggghhhh show writers. She doesn't feel like a real character, she feels like a stock Strong Female Character Who is Useless and Needs Men For Everything, and it constantly throws me out of the story. (This was why I vastly prefer her in S3; for all the dumb decisions she makes, she feels much more like an actual person.) To be specific to this episode, Andrea learning how to load/unload a pistol and shoot from Shane would be fine in a different show, but none of the male characters have needed to do this. None of the male characters have had issues with using guns irresponsibly and needing to "prove" that they're worthy to carry. And Andrea is the only female character who's even trying to do these things, so it makes it seem like these are problems all women would have and no men would have.


    Female zombie kill count: no changes. No woman has killed a zombie since the first episode of S2, though TBF only one zombie is killed in this one.


    Mainly a lot of the foreshadowing for the barn reveal, which I obviously didn't know about the first time I watched. So just to be clear: is Sophia in the barn at this point? And if so, who knows about it? (I noticed early on a little wordless conversation between Maggie and Hershel where she looks at him questioningly and he shakes his head.)

    And if she is in there, what did Hershel think his endgame was when he told Rick they'd have to move on? He should already know or strongly suspect that they won't find Sophia in the woods.
     
    #3 Jetamors, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  4. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I had a wide range of emotions/reactions as I watched this episode again. But, mostly, I was kinda mad through the whole thing. It wasn't a bad episode, it was pretty well done, I just got so aggravated with that gd Shane and Lori! I was so glad to see the building of the Hershel/Rick relationship. (Love me some Hershel.) They just really clicked. Rick has so much respect for Hershel, gratitude, of course, also, for saving Carl, but genuine respect. Even as he is talking with Hershel about God and their beliefs, Rick remains very respectful of Hershel. Though Rick is wrestling with some issues--he is listening to him and letting him tell him about things. I thought that was great. They seemed to get each other right away. I am very sentimental, especially as an unabashed daddy's girl, so I understand how steadying, reassuring, meeting Hershel at that time must have been for Rick, a man who highly values the father/son relationship. Rick is just following him around, it was good. He was sitting on the steps waiting for Hershel to come out, was even flipping his hat around like a restless little boy waiting for dad, very familiar behavior for me. Those scenes were very well acted, very authentic...good job by Scott Wilson and Andrew Lincoln. (I read how hard it was on everyone when he, SW, had to go...it is obvious they had great chemistry, were really invested in protraying the Hershel/Rick relationship as critical to influencing Rick's developement. Their scenes are so well played.) Rick said just the right thing to Hershel to get him to think about letting them stay and Hershel was able to ease Rick's guilt/anxiousness about Carl with just the right story. They get each other; it was perfect.

    1. I'm glad this was one of the questions. Those looks...I was expecting one of them to say: "Ooo, Shane, you did a bad, bad thing!" It made sense that Rick would feel a bit awkward since Otis "died to save Carl.". And he, Carl, wouldn't have needed saving if Rick hadn't let him come, from his POV, it's all his fault. He feels everything so deeply. You can read that on his face. But, Dale: "Unh,unh, I ain't buying it, nope". That damn Shane...that lyin' bastard! I don't know why the lying at the ceremony made me madder than him killing Otis did, but it pissed me off, royally! Why didn't he just pretend to be overwhelmed with emotion and walk away, or say a little bit and quit, or tell them " I can't talk about it, not yet.". It was a supposedly a horrible thing to witness, so that would have been reasonable. But, no, he just lied, lied, lied at the man's funeral! That burns me up! I wish I could just slap him silly! That blankety-blank so-and-so! I am officially done with Shane...until the next time I'm not, lol. But, ooo, I was mad!

    2. I don't know what to say about that, about those two. Lord, have mercy! I try and try to understand, you know, put myself in her place, show empathy and even some sympathy for her, but then that kinda bullshit. I already said--they made me mad this episode. I hope she wanted him to stay 'cause Rick and Carl, too, love him. She thinks she's pregnant, maybe she knows it's his baby and wants him to stay on that accord. Some way thinking that he should be there if he's the dad. I don't know, ugh! I think she may be a skank, or at least, she got some skank-tendencies or maybe she a pimp and I'm a hater, lol. I mean, com' on, got a man to f**k you right and one to pay your bills,; one for the street, one for church; one who just roll and one who smoke; one who do your dirt for you,one who clean you up for the public. Uhh, idk, maybe she got it pretty good, it is the ZA. I just hate she doin' Rick like that. That's messed up.

    3. Cope out answer, but on the real--Shane is the father, but Rick is the daddy.

    4. The difference between Lori and Maggie in this episode, to me it was great. Maggie owning who she is, her sexuality. She just puts it out there, in more ways than one, haha. She is honest and open about her need for connection and needing closeness...it was refreshing and powerful. I think she was using her intuition about Glenn being a good guy. She could tell he was a good choice. She saw what he did at the well for his friends and how he was trying to pray for them and trying to comfort her. She does have a secret, too, but not like Lori, not on a personal level. Lori has to constantly play a game, it is so demeaning for her character. There is a stark constrast between her and Maggie. Lori is manipulative and dishonest, not so much about her being with Shane, I get that, but she is so shady with almost everything concerning Rick. It's ridiculous. She even seemed glad he was putting away his uniform. Even though that world is over and he needed to face that, but, it means/meant so much to him. It hurt my feelings when he finally took it off, she seemed kinda relieved. She didn't care, she only thinks how his identity, existence, behavior benefits her and ,Carl, I guess. What is wrong with her? I have also realized, I never really noticed how Andrea was trying to make the transition that the ZA required, she was definitely trying. They wrote her bad, but Laurie Holden was tweaking it the best she could.

    5. I noticed how freakin' mad Shane and Lori made me. I have always loved the dynamic between Rick and Hershel, I know why they wrote/played it a bit different from the comic. Rick needed Hershel at that point. Not just to provide a place of respite or shelter, but to bolster him in other ways. I always noticed how sweet/cute/funny Glenn was, but at the well, when he comes up and has "roped" that disgusting well walker, eww...the rest are like, wow!, he did it! Lori and Dale even jerk their heads around as he walks away. It was great. I was glad Carol and Daryl had that little moment with the rose. I cried, just like she did, when he told the story...it was heartfelt. Daryl has a lot of depth to him to know to do that for her in her grief/pain. He's not as closed off as it/he appears. Speaking of: Did it seem Rick was trying to give Daryl the old heave-ho? Maybe Rick was letting him know he didn't need to stay if he didn't want to...I think it hurt Daryl's feelings. Sometimes, that Rick, lol. The walker in the well remains the most disgusting walker ever, I'm making the stank face just thinking about it. Yilch! Yick! Giv' me the willies!
     
    #4 Katbird, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  5. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I love that the first thing Carl asked for when he woke-up was Sophia. That reminds me so much of Rick.


    I loved that Shane gave Otis a hero’s death, because although his story was inaccurate to say the least, Otis was a great guy who was willing to do whatever it took to help people.


    Herschel still annoys me. There is just something about him that just annoys me in the rewatch. When I watched before, I was indifferent towards him but now, he just annoys the hell out of me. I just don’t like him at all so far. Maybe because he claimed to be a man of God but he is asking people who are looking for shelter to leave his home and go out there in a world that as turn into hell. I’m so glad Rick called him out on that.


    Seriously Glenn, why, why, are you letting these stupid people use you as bait. They have chickens, and other animals they could have used as baits. Why you are you letting their stupidity put you in danger? I was truly mad at Glenn for agreeing to their stupid ass plan.


    I don’t like that Glenn looked like he was judging Lori. But he was doing it because he was wondering when did she get pregnant when Rick just came. Or maybe he knew about her and Shnae, and suspected the baby was Shane. Or maybe I was reading too much in his looks, :lol:.

    Paying attention to Glenn and Maggie’s relationship now, I realized that for Glenn it was love or lust at first sight.But I think Maggie settle for Glenn until she learned to love him later on.


    I didn’t like that Lori told Carl the truth about Sophia without first talking to Rick about it. Rick told the lie, therefore, she should have allow him the chance to tell Carl the truth. But by her just telling Carl, it had the potential of making Carl doubt the word of his Dad and I don’t like that. I don’t think that was Lori’s intention or that she even thought of that, just like she didn’t think about how Carl would feel hearing his Mom question his Dad’s love for him. Lori just doesn’t think sometime. I’m just glad that Carl understood why Rick lied to him.


    This episode really made me love Daryl. This is why I understand why people love him more than Rick. The writers set-up Daryl to be a hero who wasn’t trying to be a hero but was just following his heart and conscience. He wasn’t doing it for the love of family or because he was a leader but simple because he saw a mother was hurting and he knew a little girl was out there alone and afraid. Combined that with him being able to defend himself and those around him and you got a great character that most fans would gravitate to, like me.

    I still don’t like the fact that Carol is not out there with Daryl or anyone looking for her daughter. I really didn’t like Andrea in this episode, I blame the writing and acting for that.



    1.When Shane was telling his story of what happened with Otis, the camera pan to several of the characters with different looks on their faces. What do you think the writers wanted us to take away from that ?
    The way Lori raised her head up to look at Shane when he said Otis told him, "Save the boy" makes me think that phased make her doubt Shane story. The look Dale gave Shane seems to be a look of disbelieve. So I think the writers wanted us to see that not all the characters brought what Shane was selling about Otis. There were some who doubted Shane's story.


    2. Do you think Lori meant it when she told Shane to stay and when she reiterated it again, when he tried to give her out an out ? Why do you think she did that ?
    It seems like the first time she meant it because she was so grateful for what he did to save Carl. But the second time, it seems like she was going along to get alone and I don't get that. The way it was played,it was like Lori was kind of afraid, maybe, to tell Shane that she didn't mean it. It was like she believed she was dealing with a time-bomb and didn't want to do anything to set it off. Which brings me back to when Shane was telling his Otis story and the way Lori looked at him. I think her doubting Shane's story is why she answered him the way she did. Because I think that was the moment she started believing that Shane was dangerous because I think she believed he did something to Otis.

    Also, she suspected she was pregnant, it would have made the situation much easier for her if Shane had left. So her telling him that she wanted him to stay knowing this, makes me think that it was really because she was afraid of what he would do if she didn't give him what he was looking for.


    3. Do you think Lori is pregnant for Rick or Shane?
    I think it's Shane's baby. Base on the fact Rick recently find Lori, days age, a couple of weeks at most. While it seems like Shane and Lori had been having sex for weeks. So to me base on the situation, Shane is Judith's bio dad.


    4.What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers)
    I think it's improving a little, like with Maggie not having a problem freely admitting that she wanted sex because she was lonely. Her being the one to ask Glenn that. Beside that, it seems to stay the same, especially with Carol not doing anything pro-active to look for her kid but feeling sorry for herself.

    5. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    I noticed how much Herschel annoys me, I can't let that go.
    I noticed how Lori started interacting with Shane differently.
    I didn't noticed or forgot that this was the episode Rick gave Carl his infamous hat. I really loved the scene between them.
     
    #5 SevenStars, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
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  6. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I don't think anyone can miss it, :lol:.
     
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  7. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    @Jetamors

    I don't think Shane thinks his decision was noble at all. I actually thinks he feels the opposite. That's why he has decided to go on full on bad guy. That's why I think he gave Otis a hero's tale and made himself out to be the lucky guy that Otis saved.

    I don't remember him ever doing that but I don't think anyone ever asked him about Otis after this episodes. But we'll see.



    When I first watched it, I thought the same thing too but like you, now I'm questioning it when I factor in the way Sara played that scene and the one where Shane was telling his Otis story. It makes me think that the first time she told him to say, it was gratitude for save Carl. But the second it was based on fear.


    I agree with this. If this was the first time Andrea had to deal with guns. I wouldn't have a problem with this scene. But when you considered the fact that her Dad gave her a gun for protection but she doesn't know these basic things, it makes look bad. Also, you are right, none of the guys are being told that they need to prove that they capable of handling a gun before they get a gun. So to see the lone woman who desires to be pro-active her safety and the group's safety being told this, it's frustrated/


    Yeah, I didn't know notice the look between Herschel and Maggie the first time I watched, either. But this time I notice it and how uncomfortable they get when the group is talking killing walkers.

    As for Sophia, I don't know and I'm not sure if the writers ever told us if she was in the barn at this point. But I'm think she was already in the barn because I think someone in the group would have noticed them putting a walker in the barn if they had find Sophia after the group got to the farm.

    He might have told himself or believe that the little girl the group was searching for wasn't the one in the barn. Also that reminds of how annoyed I got at Herschel when Rick was trying to map out areas to search for Sophia and Herschel interrupted him and got up to over-look the hills and talk about God and stuff. That annoys me, because here is this man trying to search for a little girl in a world that has become way more dangerous and Herschel is acting like they have all the time world.
     
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  8. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    @Katbird,

    Even thought I'm totally annoyed with Herschel and I'm starting to dislike him, I agree with this. Rick needed someone like Herschel because I think it reminded him of his relationship with his father. It is something familiar he can hang-on to in this unfamiliar world. I think for the type of character they are, their dynamic work. Scott and Andy are doing a great job.

    :lol::lol: I think Dale and Lori were like :lyin::lyin:. I get what you are saying but I was okay with Shane lying like he did because it gave Otis' wife comfort to know her husband went out as a hero. I also appreciated that he wasn't such a lying bastard to make Otis be the villain in the story. He was lying but he made Otis out to be a hero in the story, which was close enough to the truth for my liking.


    :lol::lol::lol: , I disagree with this interpretation of the scene but I love this post because it made me laugh.



    I agree with you on Maggie. But with Lori, I'm not sure if she is manipulative or if she just doesn't think about things before doing them. As for the uniform thing, I can't blame her for being relieved that the thing that took away Rick from her the first time is no longer a factor in their lives. At least she gave Rick a moment to grieve and accept the lost of the uniform. She was relief but she understood that he wasn't, so she gave him a moment to himself..

    I noticed that too and I don't think Rick meant to hurt Daryl's feelings but he did. I think he was just letting Daryl know he wasn't obligated to stay with them. So if he feels the need to go out there and look for his brother, he is free to do so without feeling guilty about leaving the group. But the way he did it, made it seems like he wouldn't mind if Daryl left.
     
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  9. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I don't know how to truncate the posts, but you are right about that Shane. He certainly could have told them all Otis was not so good on the run, I don't know if it would have raised more questions than it alleviated because he didn't know Otis, and his people did,, he might have thought that was too risky--but he sure could have said something like you allude to...dead men tell no tales. I am so "bipolar" when it comes to that dern Shane. I usually defend him, I always try to mitigate his behavior/actions...it was weird that I was mad about him lying after he killed him, I mean one is obviously worse than the other, killing him I mean. Shane even explains to Andrea that it is not easy to take a man's life--referencing, I'm sure, what happened with Otis. Here I go, lol,, he was having trouble with what he did, he had that experience before as a police officer. The series opens with that. And, we know, killing Otis, cost him. It may be that his telling the story at the ceremony seemed somehow more self-serving to me than causing Otis' death, idk why, but it did for some reason. And as you pointed out, it was a good thing to help Patricia feel something positive came from his death. I seem destined to carry my Shane cross, lol.

    In your other response to jetamors, I guess you guys maybe/are probably right about Lori realizing Shane is not to be trusted. I wonder what about that phrase made her question his story, that look sure seemed to convey that.

    Shane does tell Rick about Otis in *18 Miles Out* or the episode after? When Rick tells Shane he knows about what went on with him and Lori. Rick asks him if it was to survive. I don't want to get ahead.
     
  10. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    1.When Shane was telling his story of what happened with Otis, the camera pan to several of the characters with different looks on their faces. What do you think the writers wanted us to take away from that ?
    I'm not sure besides Dale. Dale has always known not to trust Shane. I think the most interesting part of the opening was Shane in Otis's farmer clothes. Not only did the visual look ridiculous, it made Shane look so out of place in this new environment while the others are blending in.

    2. Do you think Lori meant it when she told Shane to stay and when she reiterated it again, when he tried to give her out an out ? Why do you think she did that ?
    Lori has feelings for Shane. I can't say she is in love with him or not but she definitely loves him. I almost feel like she loves Rick and Shane but isn't in love wit either right now. I think she was on the way towards falling in love with Shane just as she was on her way to falling out of love with Rick. I think she is now in the middle with both men. When Rick was gone she couldn't completely leto go of him and now that Rick is back she can't completely let go of Shane.

    3. Do you think Lori is pregnant for Rick or Shane?
    I'm kind of confused with what the question is asking. If it is a question of who's baby I think it is, I'm going with Shane. I almost like that more considering what happens later. I feel that Rick basically adopts Judith as his own knowing it is most likely Shane's. And I also think he loves Judith not in spite of that but also because it is his friend's child and the last of the good in him. Shane would have raised Carl as his too. It is all twisty and crazy but I think is further proof of what a strong, compassionate and forgiving man Rick is.

    4.What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers)
    Again where the hell is Beth?

    I loved Maggie in the beginning. I never hated her later but just become kind of numb to her after a while unless her and Glenn are having a moment or she really does something badass. But in the beginning she was the perfect blend of tough girl and sensitivity. I feel like this is the character Andrea should have been more like. I guess there can't be two of the same character but I think the sass just worked better with Maggie. After seeing these LC scenes again I am giving her acting more credit even though I think she is weaker than SWC and MMB.

    I have to say I think Andrea has the best chemistry with Shane. I'm still not terribly interested in what's going on with her but she seems the most relatable with him.

    Love how Lori approaches Rick when he is putting away the uniform. I think Lori gets a bad wrap for not being supportive. I think she wants to be but they just don't always mesh. Here is one of the times they did and she was the comfort he needed. I also felt the most empathy I have felt for her yet when she breaks down after seeing the positive test results. I felt the weight of that and also so bad especially since this character has been slut shamed so harshly. Do I like her choices and how she dealt with the fallout? Hell no, but she never cheated. She did move on quick for my tastes but it was a horrible mistake and now because of those mistakes she is in this situation at the worst time possible. Also, though, how dumb were Shane and Lori (or Rick and Lori if you think it's his, I don't) for not pulling out. Sorry, not sorry. Rookie mistake. I mean Lori though it may have been better for Carl to die but took no precautions to avoid pregnancy with two different men during the ZA? Just sayin'. Blame isn't hers alone but none of them are in high school anymore.

    5. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post) AND MY OTHER RAMBLINGS...
    1. Carl and Rick. Love that Carl asks about Sophia first thing. He totally has Rick's heart. So adorable when he gets the hat. I forgot this was the moment. He is grown into it now. Such and odd bonding experience to talk about both being shot. Love that Rick always wants to be honest. I have noticed even with enemies Rick never really lies (or didn't until ASZ). Love the way Rick looks at Carl. It's like the father/son version of the deep way he looks at Michonne.
    2. Love the interaction of Herschel and Rick. The respect between the two is immediate even as they battle philosophies. I love that Herschel sees in Rick the father he never had. Herschel's father sounds like Daryl's. I also love that Rick stands up for Herschel's request. This to me hints that Rick isn't totalitarian. He would never just take over people like a Negan. Shane had that capacity. Rick did not want to take advantage of the kindness. love them overlooking that beautiful countryside ad talking religion. I feel Rick on God having an odd sense of humor but see Herschel's lack of cynicism and focus on grace more. Rick admitting he thinks he fails Carl everyday broke my heart. Herschel really sees Rick as he describes him as a plain spoken man. I really love how Rick has already started TF and thinks of those with him as his responsibility wether he wants it or not. Kind of how Herschel has taken responsibility for the barn walkers and will try to protect them.
    3. The Greene Family Secret. I failed to notice upon frst watch the many hints that Herschel and Maggie were hiding the secret about the barn. He looks to her a few times knowingly. He tells Rick they should not get settled when Rick mentions moving into the barn. He also tells Rick there are things he won't discuss when they are talking later. I also think Maggie is so freaked out by them killing the walker in the well is because she may know who it is and has never seen one she knows killed before.
    4. Glenn and Maggie!!! Glenn is so cool and funny without even trying. I don't think Stephen Yeun gets enough credit for his acting. He totally makes Glenn funny and it's not forced. Glenn seems so genuine in his innocence. So cute that she seduced him.
    5. The well walker. Why does Glenn always get picked for the shit jobs? And why that cheesy camera work going into the well. I'm glad they don't do camera tricks like that anymore. It kind of takes me out of the reality the show is trying to create. I think FD was trying to be hip but it just doesn't work. Glad T-Dog punked their efforts with an I-told-you-so.
    6. T-Dog and Dale. I kind of just realized they were besties. I liked that TD gave more explanatio for his earlier rant... still think it was pointless though. I feel it should have been dropped or expanded upon.
    7. Daryl. I got confused again on if Daryl's place in the group after the convo with Rick. If anyone has more clarity on that please share. I like how sweet he was with Carol and feel this is the scene that sparked their ship. Will be following closely.
     
    #10 lovingdead, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
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  11. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I don't think Lori knows how she feels about either man and doesn't even know how to figure it out.

    I think Herschel and Maggie had o have put two and two together that Sophia is the girl in that barn but when? I hate to think they aided their search already knowing it was futile. But I don't think they are not smart enough to have it figured out by the time it's revealed to everyone. Hard to judge. Know it seems so obvious they were hiding something and I didn't catch it first time.
     
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  12. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Yes, I heart Rick and Herschel so much. Even when Herschel is like y'all gotta go, I feel he is paralleling Rick.

    You already know how I feel about Shane. But yeah, at this point he is becoming an actor. Rick hates telling any kind of lie. Whatever Shane we see you.

    I really think Lori was conflicted more than trying to benefit from having both men. She just is handling it so badly. She should have sat both men down together and talked this shit out. I think her guilt is making her avoid though and know it's all about to come to a head.

    Good point about Andrea trying at least. This is why I championed her on first watch. It's hard not to be biased now because I know ow annoying she gets later. But I almost glossed over her as a person the first time and just saw she was trying and gave her girl power points.

    Ok, glad you touched on Rick and Daryl. I wasn't sure how to interpret that. Maybe Rick is like look you've been great but f you don't wanna really integrate nobody s forcing you to stay. If that's what was going on I like it because he was like look ether stay and chill or go, but don't stay and whine. Like dude grow up, basically? Maybe, I dunno, I'm still confused.
     
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  13. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I think they needed a person to rope the walker. Why Glenn, though. Still mad. I guess he is small and isn't afraid but still. It was just assumed he would do it.

    Very interesting take on Lori starting to not trust Shane and seeing danger in him.

    I see why people love Daryl. I love Daryl. I don't see how some people think Daryl should be the lead though. It wouldn't work. Great character but NR, who plays Daryl great, still isn't strong enough to carry the show and it works best as Rick's journey. That said, I still just don't get the intense Daryl hate from some. He did annoy me at the end of last season because I felt like he regressed and he does get quite a few hero moments that could be shared, but I still don't dislike him. I love his heart and ornery spirit.
     
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  14. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    1.When Shane was telling his story of what happened with Otis, the camera pan to several of the characters with different looks on their faces. What do you think the writers wanted us to take away from that ?
    I’m not quite upset at Shane fabricating Otis’ last moment into some glorious hero’s death. It’s obvious he’s not about to let the truth free, so why not go ahead and use his lie to bring comfort to the widow? Everyone looked downward, reflecting as Shane recited the story. Dale definitely looked as if his suspicions was aroused. He’s not buying Shane’s story. Lori perked up when Shane states Otis’ quote: “we’ve got to save the boy”. I think Lori just realized just how fortunate she was in this circumstance. Last episode, when Lori retreated back into the house to be with Carl, she stopped to look at Rick and Hershel break the news to Patricia who broke down sobbing. Lori and Rick were able to save Carl through Otis’ sacrifice. It just occurred to me how fortunate Lori has been with the people in her life. Both her husband and son were on the brink of death and were able to come back.

    2. Do you think Lori meant it when she told Shane to stay and when she reiterated it again, when he tried to give her out an out ? Why do you think she did that ?
    I do think Lori meant it when she told Shane to stay. She was feeling grateful, and she just realized what Shane went through for Carl. She knows the only reason Shane is leaving is because of her, so she told him to stay, and even when he gives her an out, she stuck to her original statement. She appreciated everything he’s done so far, and she doesn’t want him to leave because of what happened between the two. I also think him coming through for Carl has defrosted the tension between the two. She was noticeably warmer towards him now. But I wish the writers would give more of her thoughts regarding the CDC incident. Has she forgiven him? How does she feel about it now? I don’t want to make assumptions myself.

    3. Do you think Lori is pregnant for Rick or Shane?
    Lori is pregnant with Shane’s baby. The math has been done, but I liked the ambiguity it set. But, of course, we all know who is Judith’s father. Rick has been there for her, and she is his as much as Rick's as Carl is his. In terms of the story, I like the idea that Judith is biologically Shane’s while also being Rick’s, symbolizing this tumultuous relationship and the conflict that arose from it.

    4.What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers)
    My biggest problem early on was how most of the women were never part of the decision making group. The men always seem to be calling the shots. They still do, but it was nice to see some contribution from the women in regards to the well-walker problem.

    5. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    There was definitely this look shared between Hershel and Maggie when Maggie asked what would they tell Sophia’s mother had she been bit. A part of me thinks that look was to say, “don’t tell them what we believe. That we have walkers holed up in the barn because we’re waiting for a cure”. I just don’t think Hershel wanted to explain himself to a bunch of strangers, especially when they were only going to be staying around temporarily. But, yes, I do think it might have also been because there is a little girl in the barn, and he’s just hoping she’s not the one. I think Hershel is also potentially avoiding any tension if he immediately revealed that there is a little girl in the barn. Hershel must be hoping for a best case scenario, that they find Sophia or they move on. I’m just realizing how intently Hershel wanted to live in his bubble, and how he sensed that Rick and Co. will burst it wide open.

    I wish we got more of an explanation on T Dogs ramblings earlier on. Ok, so they establish that’s not him, but then what was I supposed to take away from that conversation? T Dog being weak or a coward isn’t really ever touched on mostly because he fades into the background. And I never bought into him being a weak or coward. He went back all the way to walker-infested Atlanta to get Merle because of his guilt. At this point, it’s established that he isn’t a coward, so I’m not sure why they thought to retread old grounds and then promptly disregard it. I should save this discussion for later on, but I guess they did the opposite during his death. Earlier, he contemplates leaving everyone and running away, while later on he stays and sacrifices himself for Carol. Still a shitty death and an under-utilized character.

    We got a little bit of the, “I heard from so-so your background story” from Hershel in regards to Rick’s time in the coma. I can buy this more so than Morgan getting random details from TF about Carol’s rescue of them at Terminus or her killing of Karen and David. For one, Hershel actually gives a name from who he hears this: Lori. And I can actually believe that in all that chaos, she would open up to Hershel.

    Gleggie hook up was so funny. The whole bit with the condom, and Glenn asking why she’d have sex with him. I actually like the light hearted way their relationship began. They’ve matured so much from this point. I feel like I can take a seat and enjoy their relationship from the beginning this time.

    There was this sweet sadness when Rick retired from his uniform and Lori comforted him.
     
    #14 Gooey Goobert, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
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  15. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    My other problem is as you pointed out, why is that only the women need this lesson on guns and none of the guys? I can buy Rick, Shane and Daryl, given their occupation and background, but every other guy just happens to know? Not only that, but I have to suspend disbelief that Andrea’s father gave her a gun for protection but decided to skip over the lessons? And just to rub more salt on the wound, Andrea is the best sharp shooter they have in the GN. I understand if they took that storyline and decided to give Andrea more trial and error to go through, but they give don’t give us any other alternative woman who is as capable. Lori apparently knows how to shoot, but we don’t get that until much later on. Like you said, Andrea is the only woman actively trying to learn and use these skills, it just leaves bad taste that she’s having so much trouble and none of the guys need to go through this. Later on, in S3, I do believe that Tyreese comments how he is having trouble with guns (which is also in line with the GN).

    I think when Carl awoke, he probably pressed her on for details, and instead of letting it snowball into something big, she just told him the truth. With the easy way he accepted his dad's confession, I don't think he'll begin to doubt him.

    I feel the exact same way. I think she's just in this middle ground with these two men like you said. Not entirely in love with one or the other. She couldn't completely bury Rick away, but she admits later on that there was something between her and Shane.

    I think I'm always a little lenient on Lori because she gets shredded too much by fandom. Part of the reason why I can be forgiving with her relationship with Rick is because it's been shown multiple times that Rick and her relationship is/has deteriorated, and right now we're seeing why they don't work as well anymore.
     
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  16. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    Thanks, I'll pick it up again when we get there! It's been so long since I've watched these first two seasons...
     
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  17. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    I was gonna save this for later, but I just wanna get it out before I forget. I do get irritated that Glenn allows himself to be used as bait. When I first watched TWD, I thought Maggie was reacting way to harshly towards Glenn because he tended to stick out his neck too much, but now I'm thinking that he needed that from Maggie, and I completely understand why she was angry. Why invest yourself in a relationship with someone who seems to have so little regard for their own life? Glenn may think he's being selfless, but there is a negative side to his action. I think up until this point, he felt like he didn't have anyone to come back to so he felt comfortable offering himself on these dangerous situations. It's interesting because Michonne suffered from this similar line of thinking later on. In 6.03 she tells Glenn that he should head back because he has a wife to go back home to. I'll end this now and go into more detail when we get there.
     
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  18. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    It bothered me because of that and because he's the Asian guy. I don't think they purposely were like oh the Asian guy is expendable, but if anyone is familiar with the 'white man's backpack' idea, it can be referenced regarding Glenn. So ironic because my Asian boyfriend at the time introduced me to this show and he would go on and on about Rick and Daryl and I was like Glenn rocks too and he was like Glenn's ok. Not that h had to love him just cause he's Asian but I was shocked he didn't see the merit in Glenn and be more supportive since he complained about Asian guys never getting to be alpha onscreen. So, I think sometimes even with the audience Glenn is taken for granted. Or maybe my bf was just jealous cause he knew I was crushing on Glenn first, haha.
     
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  19. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    I was thinking the same thing! And I don't think it was something they intentionally thought either, but since Glenn was the only Asian guy, it just reflected really badly that they continuously had him appear like he was somehow valued less. Yeah, I think Glenn and the other PoC characters like Michonne, often get overlooked by the audience, which is baffling because they're also some of the most popular TWD characters.
     
  20. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I think Glenn comes into his own later as a fighter (although he never killed a person until last season which I found strange). But in the beginning he was a good strategist yet also the gopher/guinea pig. I love that Maggie is like no son if you gonna be my boo you gonna crush that shit (you know in her country white girl way, haha).