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Poll TWD REWATCH CLUB: Guts 1x2

Discussion in 'Season 1' started by SevenStars, Jun 12, 2016.

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What grade would you give 1x1 ?

Poll closed Jul 12, 2016.
  1. A

    14 vote(s)
    82.4%
  2. B

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  3. C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Hi everyone,

    I was really happy to see that everyone participated in the discussion last time. It was a great discussion and I loved reading everyone views. I hope we can continue to have these great discussions with each other.


    Here are the questions: Remember to post your response to these questions before reading others response.

    1. What do you think about Lori taking off her wedding rings weeks after Shane told her that Rick was supposedly dead ?

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .

    3. Which character caught your noticed in this episode ?

    4. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)

    I will answer these questions myself later on and have additional comments on the episode.
     
  2. Flower1petals

    Flower1petals Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I was just wondering about this. Are we doing a Wed/Sun thing? 2 ep a week
     
  3. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I liked this episode. I was reminded why I love Rick Grimes, he is so awesome! Andrew Lincoln, Zombie Slayer! Not because he slays many, and any, of the dead , but because he, from the start, was concerned about all of them. He was determined to get them all out of there.

    1.Did Lori actually take off her rings? It looked as though she had Rick's wedding band on a chain with a locket. She had her set on, even though she was laying up with Shane. Shane saw Rick's ring and froze a moment. I was annoyed that he reacted that way, but went right ahead sexing up his wife...I'm mad all over again!
    2. The women characters--idk...they are strong, but very much subordinate/differed to the men. Traditional roles definitely on display at the camp. I did like Andrea and Jacqui. They at least were written as willing to put it all on the line to survive. The two of them didn't panic and kept their heads when they were in some pretty deep s**t. (Andrea drew on Rick. That showed some balls, he was dressed as a po!ice officer and they aren't that far removed from the way things were. So, yeah, I think that took hella nerve...even if the safety was on.). Poor Lori, I don't want to start no mess (lol) but I kinda felt sorry for her. Dealing with Shane?...please. It just seemed the women were aware that the world could prove very dangerous for women without the trappings/foundations of civilization.
    3. I will take it with both barrels: Merle! (I heart Michael Rooker, I can't help it. Big fan of his before TWD.)
    And, the one, the only Glenn Rheeeee! Hell-to-the-yeah! All of them were so interesting and well acted. Some better than others, in that respect, but none were terrible. Merle/Michael Rooker just has that kind of something that makes you watch. I told y'all, I can't help it. Can we get Morales back? His line to Rick on the roof, one of my favorite quotes.
    4. Rick knew right away that Glenn was smart, resourceful, and confident. He knew it was a good idea to make an ally/friend of him. Glenn did get him out of the tank. He supported Glenn's ideas/choices with very little trepidation. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, further than I already have by not hating Merle, lol...it's all love, love, right?; I don't think Lori likes Shane all that much. She may love/lust after him. And is definitely trying to appease him. But she doesn't seem to like him all that much.
     
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  4. TexasZAgal

    TexasZAgal Ricktator
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    1. What do you think about Lori taking off her wedding rings after Shane told her that Rick was supposedly dead? She did not take off her rings, the ring on the chain was Rick's wedding ring. I guess Shane took at the hospital because sometimes they don't want you wearing jewelry especially when you are operated on. Then when Shane told Lori Rick was dead he gave her his ring as some sort of proof. But he sure as hell did not want to see it when he was making love to her, that is why she tossed it aside.

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episode? I think the writing was OK, Andrea and Jackie were scared as I would be. Amy was very emotional and Lori was OK. Of the 4 I really loved Jackie.

    3. Which character caught your notice in this episode? (did you mean who did we notice?) Actually there were several people that caught my eye - a) Glenn, he was just a baby yet knew so much. I loved him calling Rick a "dumbass". I loved he got so excited about the red car. b) Rick, he was so terrified in the tank but he rose to the task ahead of him. He was so smart about thinking of putting the guts on him and Glenn. And I never realized that he is the one who said "Officer Friendly", I always thought it was Merle who came up with that name. c) Merle, he was such an ass.

    4. What did you notice was different from the last time you saw this episode? I always thought it was Merle who started calling Rick "Officer Friendly", but it was actually Rick who said it to Merle when he handcuffed him. When Merle hit Rick, you could see Rick try to calm himself down otherwise he was going to give Merle a beatdown.

    I will think of more stuff later on but I will say this was another excellent episode.
     
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  5. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    1. What do you think about Lori taking off her wedding rings weeks after Shane told her that Rick was supposedly dead ?
    I don't think she took off her wedding ring but was wearing Rick's around her neck on a chain. What pissed me off about the episode as someone else mentioned is she and Shane paused but continued on. The fact that she left her son in the care of others during the beginning when they didn't know if and when an attack would come so she could cum (lol) speaks volumes to me. I don't want them to have done this, but she could have snuck Shane into the tent with her and Carl (eeeew!) - but I believe from a comment she makes later that she has done this before but we will discuss this in the next show as I believe that is where this is clarified for me. Their main routine seems to have been to meet and get busy in the woods and it had been happening for some time.

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) . I hate the way the women and the POC were written Jacqui did everything but the head movements. I have to admit I had to rewatch her scenes the first time as I couldn't understand what she was saying, especially when she says to Rick "you should have let the cracker beat his ass" referring to Merle beating TDog after TDog makes the comment that causes Glen to puke. Here we have two ends of the spectrum the "Racist" and the black tropes.. ugh. Sorry, went OT re the women. The women were hanging clothes, cooking or looking for food while Shane was playing with Carl, teaching him how to tie knots I believe, FD really likes to keep the little women doing "womanly" stuff - mind you this may have been his attempt at giving us a glimpse of people doing their "normal" routines but this still bugged me. Even Andrea had a gun and she didn't know to turn the safety off.. which father would give a gun to their daugther and not at least teach them how to turn off the safety.. even if he didn't have time, did she not encounter any walkers before and needed to shoot them? I just found her naivete a little too much in that instance.. once again perpetuating the women needing saving mentality.

    3. Which character caught your noticed in this episode ? Glen, GLEN, GLEN - I loved Glen's introduction. He is such an unsung hero in this show, he puts himself out for a mere stranger, puts himself at constant risk without any expectation. Contrast this with Shane, who I also noted did NOT volunteer to go to Atlanta, sending TDog Glen and a family man with a wife and TWO young children instead. Then he claims he won't go after them because they "knew the risks". Rick would have never done that. Each episode underscores to me that Shane was all about Lori first then Carl - I think if he had the choice, he would choose Lori over Carl, but that's spec for another day! LOL

    4. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    This is gross but I noticed that Lori slept with Shane in the morning and Rick that same night! For some reason I was under the impression they spent the night in Atlanta but they were back by early evening (it was still light out as we will see from the next Episode). She had been banging Shane on the regular and had the audacity to say she thought the kid might be Rick.'s because she slept with Rick a few hours later, Denial much! and she was wearing the same clothes.. did she even clean up.. I know, gross, but really...it is what it is!

    Second thing is I was hyped about LH (Andrea) getting together with Rick and saw chemistry. On this re-watch, other than Merle and Rick I did not like the writing, I thought LH's acting was bad, and only saw chemistry with Rick when she was in the store talking about the necklace for Amy.

    Third, as I mentioned in the prior Episode I hate the faster walkers. Not only does those walkers sniff people (which I thought was stupid, i mean we get it, they smell different, they didn't have to make the walker actually sniff them! LOL); the walker in the sewer had sound effects like an alien and not a walker moan, which bugged me; the walkers RAN maybe loped is a better word but they were chasing after Rick and Glen at a really fast (and unrealistic) clip; then the walkers climbed fences and yet were unable to climb ladders (when Glen and Rick went up the ladder in the first sequence).. ugh just a lot of inconsistencies!
     
    #5 Caribbeanqueen11, Jun 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2016
  6. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I love doing this rewatch because it forces me to pay attention to things that I didn't when I first watch the episodes and that add to my enjoyment of the episodes for some reason. I hope it is added to yours as well.

    I have not read any of your responses but I'm glad to see people have watch the episode and are responding in this post. Don't forget to vote.


    1. What do you think about Lori taking off her wedding rings weeks after Shane told her that Rick was supposedly dead ?

    It made me feel some type of way at first because it seems kind of fast to already be taking the wedding ring off, especially when she didn't see Rick died, she didn't have a chance to hold a funeral for him or anything. Basically it seems kind of fast when you considered that she had no real confirmation that Rick had died or a real chance to say good-bye to him. I'm wondering if the reason it didn't take her long to take off her ring is because she was already check out off her marriage. Since she was already on her way out off her marriage, therefore, after Rick died, she didn't feel an obligation or desire to keep holding onto something she was ready to end before he died.

    Or maybe her taking off her ring while she was having sex with Shane was her way of honoring her marriage, her way of honoring the relationship she had with Rick.


    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .

    I didn't like it at all. I honestly didn't like any of the women in this episode. I kept wondering why the hell is Jackie there when clear she doesn't seems to be of any use and scared of her own shadow. I didn't like Andrea introductions to us, her whole attitude was off putting to me.

    3. Which character caught your noticed in this episode ?

    Glenn. He didn't catch my noticed the first time I watched this time I truly noticed him. I saw the potential for a great character in the way the writers introduced him to us. I loved his introduction because it showed how smart, caring and perspective he was in reading people.

    4. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)

    The way Dale spoke to Lori. I didn't noticed that the first time .Dale talked to Lori was like she was child, like she was Carl’s age . It was very off putting and made me start to dislike Dale as character when I was indifferent to him before this rewatch.. I didn’t noticed it before, but I hated it. I’m going to keep an eye on that.


    Other stuffs I noticed:

    I didn’t like Andrea introduction to us, it was off-putting,especially her scenes with Rick. I think the writers were trying to go for tension between her and Rick. Maybe trying to build up some chemistry between them, especially the way Andrea was looking at Rick when she said that him getting them out of the messed she blamed him for would be a start for her forgiving him. I get what the writers were trying to do there but I didn’t like it. It seems forced and it didn’t show Andrea in a good light.

    This episode makes me think if Darabont had stayed on as writer, Andrea and Rick would have definitely happened and I would have probably hated.

    This rewatch reminded me that Shane was always about those he loves. He was willing to sacrifice anyone in the group as long as it meant keeping those he loves safe. I get that but this makes me realize how wrong people are about Rick turning into Shane in later seasons.
     
  7. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Yeah, this is how we are doing it.
     
  8. Flower1petals

    Flower1petals Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    OK I didn't get a chance to watch this one yet but now I get to watch 2 :)
     
  9. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    I agree with you re Darabont. In fact he was a die hard comic fan and had advised LH that she would be there at least 7 seasons. Rick and Andrea was engame for him.

    Even into the farm storyline he wrote the women in a very stereotypical fashion.

    As I mentioned above I did not like the writing in this episode (FD was the writer).

    I think Lori had her ring on her finger still. I did notice her engagement ring at least, with Ricks ring around her neck.

    As for Dale he was annoying from the get-go but he was well-meaning!

    I found Lori really snarky calling Amy the mushroom queen! Wow from my comments here and above it would seem as if I hated her right off and that's not the case. I actually liked her and felt sorry for her UNTIL the farm, then the dislike began. On this re-watch however I'm noticing small things that really make me question her decisions. I think she had a strong pull towards Shane and that she loved him but felt a lot of guilt about it when Rick came back.
     
  10. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Was it Rick's rings? I thought it was her rings on that chain but you might be right. Which would totally change my opinion on how I view that scene.

    He froze but since Lori took off the chain, I don't really blame him for still wanting to have sex with her, especially since she seems willing. Her taking off her the chain to me was her giving Shane the go ahead. I don't think he would have continued if she had kept the chain with the ring on it and I think she knew that.

    To me that kind of shown that Shane might have more reservation about being with Lori than I first thought because if he didn't have reservation, seeing that ring wouldn't have froze him like that.

    Base on their interaction I think Lori like Shane. I also noticed the silent communication she had with Shane when Andrea's sister was calling Shane out for being a heartless bastard. She looked at him, gave him a nod of understanding and want after Andrea's sister, I assumed to try to get her to see Shane's view on things.

    I don't remember if Lori used to have these silent communication with Rick, I'm going to pay attention to that in up coming episodes.
     
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  11. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Looking forward to reading your thoughts on it.
     
  12. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    You see, this why this discussion is good because when I first saw Lori take off the rings, I assumed they were hers. But your explanation makes perfect sense. Now I see it as Lori still wanting to keep a part of Rick, a reminder of her marriage to Rick with her. That tells me that despite how the marriage was before Z.A, she still had love for Rick. She might not have been in love with him and was ready to walk away from their marriage but she still loved him.

    I think Shane didn't want to see that ring for several reasons. It reminded him that he was sleeping with his best-friend's wife. It reminded him that he lost his best-friend. It also reminded him that Lori still loved Rick, might still be in love with Rick.

    I didn't think Rick was trying to calm himself or keep himself from beating up on Merle. I thought it was a reminder to the audience that just days ago Rick was in a coma. Rick has spent weeks on a bed without much nutrition and without regular, normal physical active. I thought it was to remind the audience that Rick was still at the stage of recovery, therefore, any physical active exhausted him quickly, like punching Merle. I thought it was a great show of continuity on the writers part because we saw the same thing when Rick was beating on that walker when he was with Morgan.
     
  13. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    So far I'm really disliking the way FD is writing the women and I didn't notice that when I first watch the show because I think I was more focus on Rick and by extension Lori/Shane, so I didn't pay too much attention to the other characters especially the women since they didn't get too do much.

    Being in this discussion group is making me pay more attention to things in the episodes and like you, I'm noticing a lot of things about Lori that I didn't noticed before, like her as a mother. I always thought she was a good mother, that's why I hate reading canon stories that portray her as bad a good mother. But upon rewatch, I'm realizing that Lori clearly love Carl, but those who saw her as bad mother might not be far of the base.
     
  14. idcabtthisish

    idcabtthisish The New Mrs. Grimes
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    OMG! I thought we were only watching on Wednesdays!!! Now I'm behind. Not gonna lie after re-watching 1x1 I watched all the way to 1x3 LOL but now I'll re-watch 1x2 w/ a critical eye. I'll be back to post later on today :)
     
  15. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Yeah, it's every Wednesday and Sunday. You are not the only one who was a bit confused about it and it's my fault caused I posted the plan on the other thread but didn't bother posting it in OP thread so everyone would have a chance to read it. I will fix that.
     
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  16. idcabtthisish

    idcabtthisish The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Thanks! Im so excited for this woot woot. I love the dialogue!


     
  17. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    1. What do you think about Lori taking off her wedding rings weeks after Shane told her that Rick was supposedly dead ?
    I just really am cringing at Lori/Shane. I did the first time and still feel the same. It just seems like they are having too good a time and are only pausing out of a moment of guilt. I can see comfort sex but I feel like that would be a different mood. These two seem like they are just really enjoying each other like it's pent up passion. I never liked it and will never be okay with it.

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .
    So far, I have no problems with them, honestly. I didn't like the roles women played in the early episodes, but honestly felt it was realistic. The ZA is still new so it isn't like the women are going to magically overnight be liberated and become badasses. Most of the women we see surviving now are surviving because the strong men in the group have done the fighting. Andre and Jackie are contributing while out on the run, but you see they are the ones who volunteered to go which means they are the stronger women. It's the same way I viewed Mad Men. People complained about the female roles but honestly it was true to the times and you saw the stronger female characters and their struggles to rise up but every woman is not some fierce warrior... and neither is every man as we see later in the series. These are still the early days in the ZA so the toughest threats (other people) are not as pronounced yet. So at the moment, for the most part the gender roles are still pretty intact and that is true to society.

    3. Which character caught your noticed in this episode ?
    Glenn is awesome. This really made me miss old school Glenn. He was so smart and funny and just good energy. I really think they started to dull him down later. He maintains his badass-ery but looses his sense of humor and infectious youth. Jackie was also a standout to me. She was on point and no nonsense.

    4. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    I now see that TPTB where trying to plant seeds for a future Rick and Andrea relationship. I totally did not catch that the first time. Not sure if they really had sparks though. They did develop a rapport so I will keep a look out for if they really did a good job of trying to set it up. The initial meeting is way less intense than Rick and Michonne, so it will be interesting to compare over time.
     
  18. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I noticed! I have no doubt Lori loved and missed Rick, but I also think that she often had this sense of upholding her "duty" as a wife about her, so that may have weighed in as well. Putting aside whether she was right or wrong at any given time, S1-2 Lori had a pattern of disagreeing with the men in her life in private yet then inexplicably turning around and backing whatever they said in public. That kind of unnecessary self-denial can (and did) cause problems in the long run.

    Short and sweet: I don't think the writers started to get a handle on any of the women of this series until S4.

    Longer (some highlights): I think Lori's inner conflict between what she truly believes and what she thinks her duty is (my take on her character) needed more context, like Rick and Shane got in the scene in the car at the beginning. Amy's parts may as well have been Lori's. Carol barely existed (it's a crime we didn't get to see how amazing Melissa McCarthy's acting range is until later seasons). Upon rewatching I get the impression Andrea was intended by the writers to stand out somehow (?!) but in actuality she's just as unremarkable as every other woman and I certainly didn't notice anything the first time through (before I came to learn about her eventual role in the comics).

    Glenn's humour ("I'm a glass half full kind of guy") made me smile but other than that I still wasn't impressed with anyone yet.

    Nothing big. The first time, I somehow missed that Shane, Lori, and Carl were at the camp until a bit late (it wasn't until after Shane and Lori's roll in the grass that I realized, so that scene seemed especially pointless that first time, lol). Then the implications of everything I'd been seeing with them and Carl dawned on me, not long before the big reunion.
     
    #18 Sasha's Living Room, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
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  19. Flower1petals

    Flower1petals Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I'm getting mad about Shane /Lori all over again. Seriously, they are having too good of a time for this to just be some comfort sex. It's just way to easy. I will never be good with it. It prevented me from ever sympathizing or liking her at all. I disliked her right from jump.

    I also caught the start of what I thought would be a Rick/Andrea pairing. I didn't read the comics until season 5, so at this point I thought that's where they were going to go ( after the fallout from Rick finding out about Shane).

    I absolutely love Glen. It's making me appreciate him even more. His sense of humor. And tptb did this to him?! The thought that he's been through all this with Rick from the beginning, for his story to end like this? It is making me super sad.

    I didn't remember how fast the walkers were. Them mofo's were running, climbing fences and shit!
     
    #19 Flower1petals, Jun 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  20. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Sorry for being late. I made the mistake of thinking it was only once a week.

    1. What do you think about Lori taking off her wedding rings weeks after Shane told her that Rick was supposedly dead ?
    When I first saw that scene, I also assumed the ring around Lori's neck belonged to her. Afterwards, when Lori returns the ring back to Rick, I realized it was his.

    Lori and Shane's tussle in the woods was just unsettling. Shane sneaking up on Lori, covering her mouth and then tackling her to the ground was honestly the most creepiest introduction, joke or no joke. That said, I didn't have a problem with them getting together. Grief combined with an extraordinary situation, I understood the reason. Not to mention that Rick was assumed dead, and it's an absolute miracle he survived. I believe most people took issue with the timing, but for me, if Lori and Shane acted again after Rick arrived, then I would lay the blame squarely on them. I believe that wasn't the case for Lori, so I was always confused when people proclaimed she's a cheater.

    Originally when I watched their scene, I remember thinking, "Oh, boy. Drama". And I was just not looking forward to the love triangle at all. But now? Knowing how all of this plays out, I just found the dynamic so interesting. In most love triangles, there is a clear "winner". A pairing that is obviously endgame. There is nothing like that here. By the end of it, every iteration of this relationship, Rick/Lori, Shane/Lori, Shane/Rick crumbles.

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .
    For the most part, I was forgiving with the way the women were written in this episode given that it's early into the ZA. I didn't mind Andrea's outburst at Rick. It was understandable, and I'm surprised more of the group weren't as upset.

    A part of me thinks the only reason Jacqui and Andrea were out there was simply for introduction purposes. If I recall correctly, all the guys (Rick, Glenn, Morales, T Dog, and Merle) killed a walker in this episode except for these two. As someone mentioned earlier, I find it unbelievable Andrea's dad handed a gun to her for her safety but never bothered showing her how to use it. At times I feel as if the writing is trying to force the women into not being as competent as the men.

    I should probably save this discussion for later down the road, but it's interesting that the writers took Andrea, a character from the GN who was able to stand on her own and was absolutely vital for the group, and then watered her down for the show. I believe the writers were trying to give Andrea a slow development, and she was meant to reach the sniper skills of her GN counterpart through an extended trial and error, and I would have been completely fine with this approach if they substituted another female character that was as essential and able to run with the guys like GN! Andrea. Again, this is a discussion for a later time once we get more episodes under our belt, and I could flesh out my thoughts better.

    3. Which character caught your noticed in this episode ?
    Glenn! He was hilarious and brave. He's selfless to a fault and allows himself to be used for dangerous situations. I loved his introduction and how young and optimistic he was. It's interesting to see him change and yet still retain some of his old qualities in the newer episodes.

    4. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    I was trying to keep an eye open to see if the writers were aiming for Rick/Andrea. Most people cite the interaction in the store as early set up for Randrea. I didn't see too much there but the writers may just be trying to not be overt because Rick was still heavily focused on finding Lori and Carl.

    I also forgot how gratuitous Merle's fight with T Dog was. I don't mind if shows depict racism, but this seemed like a juvenile approach and barely scratched the surface. I got annoyed that T Dog confronts Merle and is violently beaten, and Rick is the one who comes saving the day and give a unifying speech. And then my eyes rolled to the back of my head when T Dog dropped the key. I'd rather he left Merle and be wracked with guilt then be forced to muster sympathy for such a contrived moment.

    These early episodes always had a different, almost lighter tone and not just because the show cycled through three show runners. I appreciated the witty dialogue, but I often felt that some of these episodes didn't belong. I don't think it's just because it's early in the show. I always felt the first episode's tone was consistent with the later episodes, but some of the other episodes in this season just did not fit.
     
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