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Poll TWD Rewatch Club: Nebraska 2x08

Discussion in 'Season 2' started by SevenStars, Jul 27, 2016.

?

What grade would you give 2x07 ?

This poll will close on Aug 27, 2019 at 9:42 PM.
  1. A

    4 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. B

    3 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. C

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Hey guys,

    So far only a few people seem interested in during the whole live-viewing for season premiers and finales thing. But we have few weeks more to think about it. Lets see how it goes, if anyone have any suggest or concern about how it would work if we did it, post it and we can discuss it and figure it out. Anyway, lets get with the discussion.

    1. Do you think Lori made the right decision to leave Carl and go search for Rick ? Why do you think she was so desperate to get to Rick ?

    2. Do you think Carol made the right decision by not being there to see Sophia be buried ? Why ?

    3.Was there any improvement in the writing for the women ?

    4. What did you noticed this time that you didn't notice last time ?


    @Sasha's Living Room@lovingdead @Katbir @Flower1petals @Caribbeanqueen11 @MrsG@chaundee @Gooey Goobert @Canuckgirl @Jetamors
    @TexasZAgal

    I'm going to keep posting the plan for this club in every post, going forward for at least the first few weeks so that those who are joining us for the first time can get the info. For those who read it in the last post, just skip it and go to the questions.

    1. We watch two episodes per week. Wednesday and Sunday. We spend the days in between each episode discussing the episodes. So we have would have a 3 days to watch and discuss each episodes.

    2. I will try to post at least 3 questions in each new episode post but that doesn't mean that's the only thing we can discuss. If people have other comments, or questions base on the episode, they are free to post them and add them to the discussions. The questions that I be posting is just like something to break the ice, nothing more. So people don't have to feel obligated to only talk or respond to these questions. This discussion is free for all type of style as long we try to stay within the context of the episodes.

    3. The post for each episodes will be posted in the seasons thread with a poll for each episodes.
     
  2. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    Please don't think any of us have lost interest. I fell behind last week because of work commitments and my focus on SDCC this past weekend but I'm gonna catch up over the next few days!
     
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  3. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Just wanted to chime in and say I would be interested in a live-viewing. I just gotta play catch up first.
     
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  4. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    Me too!
     
  5. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    Just let me know the plan for the live viewing!
    I'm mostly a Lori sympathizer, but this episode has all her flaws front and center. She doesn't want Rick to go after Hershel (okay), but then she tries to go behind his back and get Daryl to bring him back! And then when he doesn't want to be her mule, she goes off on her own without telling anyone!! And then gets into the most easily avoidable car accident in the world!!!

    What I like about this, though, is that it all makes sense with her character and the stresses that she's under. She already had issues with Rick saving other people and (in her mind) putting them ahead of their family, but the triple whammy of her pregnancy, Carl saying things she felt were disturbing, and the death of someone else's child pushed her over the edge. In her mind, her family is under severe threat, and she's doing what she has to to keep them safe and together. Which, ironically, is exactly the reason why Rick goes after Hershel. But these two are almost never on the same page, and this is yet another breakdown in their relationship.

    I'm not sure... I think I would have wanted to go and see it, but I'm not Carol.

    I really loved Daryl quietly sitting with her.

    It was fine, I think. I liked Carol, though I wish we'd gotten a bit more of her, I talked above about the writing for Lori, and I liked Maggie too, though I think she should have gone with Glenn and Rick.

    Female zombie kill count: Andrea kills one with a scythe, sweet! She also confirms that she shot two zombies in the last episode. We've got a three-episode streak, though Andrea is still the only woman who's killed a zombie.

    It's been a while since I watched it, but IIRC this was my favorite episode of S2. Michael Raymond-James (who plays Dave) really hit it out of the park. I think it marks a shift in the show, too: this is the first time that the group runs into some seriously dangerous people. Hershel seemed kind of miserly when he didn't want to let Rick's group in, but now we've gotten a taste of just how high those stakes can be. One of my favorite things about TWD from here on is how much the group grapples with this question: who can you trust?

    Paying more attention to relationships: I love how even when Glenn is talking about moving on, the first person he talks to about it is Maggie. They don't even know how much they already depend on each other :D

    Carl talking to Lori about how he'd have shot Sophia kind of mirrors the S6 conversation where he tells Michonne he'd take care of her if she turned.

    Emily Kinney was what, 25 or 26 when this was filmed? She looks 14.
     
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  6. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    This is a very powerful episode, IMO. Lines are crossed--in so many ways. Lines becoming more clear for some, yet, remain blurred for some ,on different levels and from different aspects. I am always so sorry for Hershel and his people. They have to stop denying the truth about the walkers. They have to give up hope in that respect. I have said before, I am very familiar with people like Hershel and Rick, the way it is played is very authentic. AL and SW get these characters, completely. The beginning of some open talk about how to behave starts, as the question about how to treat/think about the walkers is settled.
    Rick and Shane's little dust-up about what Shane did, oh my gee, the list in Shane's mind about Rick's choices, just gets longer and longer. Shane, as my way-younger-than-me co-worker says, is so "extra"! Jon Berenthal is phenomenonal as Shane. But, I want to slap him just like Maggie did. Bowing up on Hershel like that?! That's a big, giant no-no in the Deep South. You don't do that to your elders, even in the ZA. That's Hershel's home, farm, and family. In that part of the country, it ain't Shane's place to tell Hershel nothin', not a thing. What Rick was doing was the right approach...trying to let him come to the conclusion on his own. Shane...Lord, have mercy, that boy is a mess! But, but, but, he is so kind and gentle to Carol. He was so hurt for her. She could feel his regret for his part in how Sophia's fate was revealed and his compassion for her loss, (the look MMB gave him was spot on) the loss all of them feel. I will forever be torn about Shane, I guess. Smh, lol.

    The confrontation in the bar is classic...so well done. I get that funny feeling in my stomach every time I see it. I keep expecting to hear that music from the spaghetti westerns, lol. Rick just knew he was going to have to kill them. The guy with the shotgun, his words and peeing on the floor, sealed their fate. Poor Glenn, he was not sure of what was going on, trying to read Rick's clues. Hershel's face was like: "Uh-oh, something is 'bout to pop off up in here." Then it did. Great job by all of them, especially AL. "I hear Nebraska's nice." Too boss, too cool; he a bad dude.

    1. I know why she went. Daryl's refusal to go after them and Dale telling her he thought Shane was dangerous and that he (Dale) thought Shane killed Otis put her on a razor's edge. She felt scared and desperate. She should have kept her eyes on the road while she was driving; anybody knows that it's a bad idea to try to read a map and drive. Well, except Lori. I can't blame her for trying to get to him. Thank goodness she wasn't there when Dave and Tony showed up, it would have been a bad situation made worse. I
    2.I understand that, too. Grief is a strange thing. It makes everything very unclear. I know plenty of people who don't attend funerals and many people who are unable to go see the person put in the ground or vault or what have you. I get it. I heard the words she said about being relieved Sophia had not be crying for her or scared or wondering why no one was coming for her...it is what the parents of missing children describe to a tee. Not knowing, wondering what their child is experiencing out of their presence. Bless her heart.
    3. We see a little improvement almost each episode. Lori being proactive was a positive. But, why do the writers like to give us this: "see what happens when girls do things without a man" picture over and over again.
    Maggie is by far the best written woman up to this point. She was not about to let Shane hurt her dad. And she told Glenn to think about him and her not just the group. She did that in the last episode and she is not backing away from it. Andrea has come a long way, it's a good thing. She was quick to say it wasn't all Shane, she owned her part in shooting the barn walkers.
    4. I say all the time that there is a lot Civil War imagery in S2. That huge Confederate Flag is an easy one. The fact that Dave and Tony came from Pennsylvania, is all leading to that confrontation on that rise in the moonlight between Rick and Shane. I get the allusions to Hershel clinging to his ideallic notions, not being willing to see the monster, insert slavery, for what it truly is. That is what Shane was telling Rick about the confusion/fog of nostalgia, how it lulls you into a non-reality state. More gestures towards the Civil War. I like this episode because Rick makes the decision to live in reality and not succumb to the fog of nostalgia. Shane is out of control, but Rick needs him to push him to be different. To get him to the point where what happened in the bar came out with him, Glenn, and Hershel alive and Mutt and Jeff dead.
    Can't wait to read other posts...I love this episode and want to know what y'all think.
     
    #6 Katbird, Jul 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
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  7. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    1. Do you think Lori made the right decision to leave Carl and go search for Rick ? Why do you think she was so desperate to get to Rick ?
    She was clearly worried about Beth, who seemed to be getting worse after Rick and Glenn left. Daryl refused to go and she didn't know who else to ask, I guess. But there were others around. She could have taken Andrea/Dale/T-Dog's place so one of them could have went. Lori may be set in her ways and having trouble giving up her attachment to the way things have been but she's an intelligent, assertive, and capable woman. I don't mind that she decided to go herself, though she still could have asked someone else. I think those of us give pregnant Maggie a pass for going to the Savior outpost in S6 should also give Lori a pass for this, imo. Personally I chalk this AND what happens next up to bad writing, and not her character. (see below)

    2. Do you think Carol made the right decision by not being there to see Sophia be buried ? Why ?
    I didn't like it, but it was her decision to make.

    3.Was there any improvement in the writing for the women ?
    Andrea was alright, this ep (except for LH's mannerisms, but that's acting and not writing, lol). Beth's reaction seems extreme, but it's understandable. I love that Maggie slapped Shane in defence of her father.

    I am not impressed with the writing of Lori running a car off the road. First she's distracted by the map and hits a walker that wandered up at the last second, fine. But then she freaks out at literally NOTHING in front of her and randomly swerves into the ditch? What the heck was that? But not only is the nature of the accident bizarre, but what is the point of it exactly? Is it me, or was this the most forced plot twist of the season?

    4. What did you noticed this time that you didn't notice last time ?
    Ironically, I think the guys that they met in the bar actually made Rick feel better about his performance as a leader. Why? Not only did they confirm that Fort Benning (which Shane was holding over Rick's head as the obvious, clearly superior option) was overrun, but they openly admitted that they had done things they weren't proud of to survive. And this was coming from a couple of guys who sent off a rather unpleasant vibe to begin with. Then they go on to top it all off with the one guy boasting about getting his gun off a dead cop, the other guy peeing on the floor, and one of them inquiring about whether their group had any women. Generally speaking you shouldn't compare yourself to others on a regular basis but this was one of those exceptions where I think Rick finally got what Lori tried to tell him the last time or two. He's doing a fine job as leader.

    Also, this is a thing I think a lot of people (at least in the GA) miss while watching this show. There isn't only ONE way to handle all this. Shane would have you believe it's his way or death. But it's not just Shane's way or Rick's way. You weigh your options and pick the best one you can with the least amount of downsides to it.
     
    #7 Sasha's Living Room, Jul 28, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
  8. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    I have not been active lately, but Nebraska will always be hands down my fave episode, especially since it was the coming out of Rick Grimes, leader of the TF
     
  9. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Forgot to mention something: Andrea's kill on the Annette walker (Hershel's wife) with the sickle? Give the girl some credit, that precision swing was amazing.
     
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  10. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Whoo-hoo, all caught up!

    1. Do you think Lori made the right decision to leave Carl and go search for Rick ? Why do you think she was so desperate to get to Rick ?

    I never noticed how many times Rick would run off. Obviously he had a very good reason, but I can understand Lori’s growing frustration, especially when she realizes the danger it puts him in.

    Well, I think most people would say it was the wrong decision since she didn’t get very far. But I wouldn’t. I liked that she stepped up. And it wasn’t her first instinct to leave Carl. She tried pleading to Daryl who was in a demoralized slump, so she went on her own.

    What I didn’t like was the incredibly stupid writing involved in trying to have her stay put. To be fair, a lot of these characters manage to hit walkers in a mostly empty road, but come on. She swerves and gets into this awful wreck? Really, now? I mean, I can come up with a hundred alternative ways they could have went about this without making her into a laughing stock of this fandom. What if there was car trouble? A tire gets blown and she gets into wreck? What if she comes across a small herd, and she has no choice but to turn back?

    But my other question is, why stop her from reaching Rick? I was getting really excited to see her do something only to have it snatched away so quickly.

    2. Do you think Carol made the right decision by not being there to see Sophia be buried ? Why ?

    I understand why she didn’t go. One moment they’re all looking for Sophia and the next, she’s there. Carol hasn’t had the chance to process what just happened.

    Would it have been better if she went? Maybe. Maybe she would have gotten closure. We know Carol still has unresolved feelings even up till S6. Sophia’s death is an ongoing issue for her, and we see the way she has dealt with it over time with the way she has interacted with children (Lizzie, Mika, and Sam).

    3.Was there any improvement in the writing for the women ?

    There was one glaring mistake in this episode. The writing seems to love to punish women who step up to the plate. It happened with Andrea when she was guarding the group and shot Daryl by accident, and it happened here. They come up with the most ridiculous, contrived ways too. Like all the stars had to be aligned and shit for Andrea to shoot Daryl by mistake and for Lori to hit the lone walker and get into a wreck. Why, writers, why?

    4. What did you noticed this time that you didn't notice last time ?


    I’m actually really impressed with Andrea utilizing that sickle (I thought it was a scythe, but I don’t know my weapons). That could have gone bad real fast if she didn’t have good aim.

    I enjoyed Maggie slapping Shane. I just wish it was more forceful. He was getting too brazen for me, but I guess that’s always been Shane. Lori was right. What if all that gun fire attracted walkers around to the area? Not to mention, if Rick hadn’t convinced Hershel to let them stay, they would be out on the road now. The problem with Shane is that it’s his way or the highway. I have a love-hate relationship with Shane. This is part of the reason why I wasn’t too fond of Rick in 5B and 6A. While everything he was saying about the Alexandrians was right for the most part, he went about it in the absolute worse way when he was waving his gun out in the middle of the street after his fight, which I think mimicked Shane’s moment with the barn.

    I wish Dale would speak up about his concerns to the whole group or at least Rick instead of divulging it to one person and hinting about it here and there. If you think there is a chance he can kill someone else, speak up! Honestly, when I first watched this, I was convinced Dale was gonna die by Shane’s hands if the walker hadn’t taken care of him first.

    I liked Shane’s scene with Carol and him cleaning her off and apologizing for his actions. I tell you, watching Shane is like being on a roller coaster. He hits so many different buttons.

    The scene with T Dog and Andrea driving off with the walker corpses was weird when the hand fell off and Andrea jumped off to retrieve it. What was the purpose of that? To gross us out? Just felt longer than it needed to be with the camera lingering on them.

    I liked how Maggie was hesitant about Glenn going off on that run even if it was for her father. She’s serious about what she said before and how she doesn’t want him to risk his life needlessly.

    I LOVED Rick and Glenn’s talk in the car, and Rick giving Glenn advice. It was absolutely a sweet moment that I wish we got more of. I also didn’t remember that Glenn had sisters.

    Sometimes I forget that Maggie and Beth were half-sisters. I keep thinking that Maggie’s step mother was Beth’s step mother too.
     
  11. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    No kidding. Even on this watch, I was getting that feeling. Why would Dale provoke a man he thinks is so dangerous, over and over again (I think for the third ep in a row)? The man seriously had a deathwish.

    You know, I honestly think this was the writers' clumsy way of saying "Hey look at Andrea! Aren't you proud what she can do?" but it's just weird and falls flat. I agree it felt too long and somewhat out of place.

    I think that was one of the best scenes of the season for me!
     
  12. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I'm so late in posting this. I watched the episode days ago but I've been so sick that I just didn't have the energy to post anything. I hate, hate getting the cold in summer time, it just doesn't seem right. Funny thing is that I don't get sick during winter, the season that most people all around me are fighting a bad cold or something, not me. But come summer, that's when my body betrays me. Anyway, here are my thoughts on the episode.


    I really didn’t like the way the walkers “woke-up” and grabbed Beth. I get that the writers were going for the dramatic but I didn’t like it because it ruined the somberness of the scene for me. It took me out of the scene. But I liked that it was Andrea who killed it.

    Carl reminded me of Rick in his talk with Lori about Sophia. I love it.

    I really like how Shane tried to apologize to Carol and take care of her.


    1. Do you think Lori made the right decision to leave Carl and go search for Rick ? Why do you think she was so desperate to get to Rick ?

    I don't think she made the right decision because she doesn't even know where the place is and she is going out without anyone. She should have taking at least Dale or someone, because going out alone was stupid in my opinion. But I get her reasons and desperation for it. She just find out from Dale how dangerous Shane had become. So the idea of Rick being in danger and losing him and being stuck with Shane was unbearable to her. She needed him alive to protect her, Carl and their baby. Rick going out put her whole future at risk. I also understand why she didn't do the sensible thing and pull over to read the map. She just wanted to get there was fast as possible before what she feared would have to happen to Rick happen. Rick was security and every time he goes out that security was at risk, Lori couldn't deal with that without doing something about.

    2. Do you think Carol made the right decision by not being there to see Sophia be buried ? Why ?
    I don't think she made the right decision because I think not going will cause the wound to stay open and fester. She didn't get any closure.

    3.Was there any improvement in the writing for the women ?
    I like that Lori was pro-active in her desire to protect Rick I like that Maggie was the protecting her father from Shane. I like that Andrea was the one who killed the walker. So there were some improvement in the right direction. That's better than nothing.


    4. What did you noticed this time that you didn't notice last time ?
    The care Shane took in taking care of Carol. JB played him perfectly in that scene. You can see the Shane that could have peaking in that scene. But Shane was already to far gone for anything to change him.

    I honestly forget that bar scene. I don't know why it didn't register in my memory but I didn't remember it until I saw it. It was in that scene the writers introduce the idea that may living people are more dangerous than the walkers and Rick was the one to take them out. He knew he would have to and he didn't flinch, he just did it. I really liked that. But I felt sorry for Glenn for having to witness that because he looked traumatize.

    I don't know but I felt like there was something off about this episode, maybe it's my sickness messing with my perception or whatever but I couldn't get into it after they had that walker play "dead" until Beth got close enough for it to bite her.
     
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  13. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    This episode starts off with a different feel, the use of the crane camera (GM style) more so that the panoramic wideshots (of FD). This was the 1st episode of Mazzara's tenure as EP. This episode was written by Evan T Reilly, who IMO was one of the better writers after SG. Sadly ETR didn't continue past season 3.

    GM was a producer for many years but many believe was overwhelmed by his responsibility as a showrunner. This was a really stressful time for the show and the cast and crew, many had come on board because of FD who is an extremely well respected writer/director in the business. In fact, when he was let go some were so angered by his treatment by AMC they took a stance. Of the actors, JDeMunn asked to be let out of his contract, rumour was he changed his mind but he was written out.

    GM's run as EP was, it was believed, more tumultuous than FD's. FD butted heads with AMC mostly over budgeting issues and later on over disagreements with RK about his approach to the storylines, but GM had other issues which came to light as he finished out Season 2 and began crafting Season 3. I've seen many here discuss GM's rumoured stance on having more POC perspectives in the writing room, yet the only change he brought was adding Angela Kang on the writing team. In any event, I will pay closer attention to the writing for the POC from here on to see if in fact he was better than the other showrunners in how they showcased POC in the various episodes.


    GM was also a fan of what I call 'getting to the point' writing rather than the long game storytelling of FD, this made for less background information and a race to get to the big moments, which I believe leaves a lot on the audience to fill in. This is one of the (bad) traits I believe SG kept from his time under Mazzara.

    This episode had a lot of editing issues. I recall being bothered by a lot of the editing in one of the Seasons but I'm not sure if it was this one, I'll have to pay close attention to this as well. I'll go into my take and the issues with GM in a future post because this is getting way too long and I haven't even started answering the questions yet! LOL!

    I wanted to give credit to master artist GN. I loved the detail he paid to the walkers and body parts in this episode. As a former make-up artist I really love (and miss) the effort that was put into the effects and prosthetics when this was his main focus. Case in point the arm that falls off the truck, the details down to the sinew, flesh and weight was a thing of beauty. Nicotero is a master!!

    1. Do you think Lori made the right decision to leave Carl and go search for Rick ? Why do you think she was so desperate to get to Rick ? I can understand her sense of panic, and can even understand her not telling most of the group she was going out, because they would have likely told Shane and he'd intervene, BUT why didn't she go to Dale? She at least knew he'd not only go with her but would do it on the DL. Also, maybe ask which direction it was they went OR reading the map before she leaves may have been a good idea. The whole thing was so contrived, I just had to roll my eyes when she crashed the car.

    I don't think she was frightened of Shane per se, but was concerned about what he would do in Ricks absence, particularly if anything happened to Rick. I think it was reactionary especially when she realized Shane had intentionally killed someone just to get back (to her).


    2. Do you think Carol made the right decision by not being there to see Sophia be buried ? Why ? If I were her I would have gone just to pay my respects to my daughter. I understand that she felt that Sophia had died a long time ago and perhaps did not feel she should bury the shell of a walker, even if it once was her daughter. But many people mourn in different ways so I can't really judge.

    3.Was there any improvement in the writing for the women ? For Lori, hell no, see above. Andrea was better, I liked that she was working alongside the men gathering the bodies and digging graves.

    4. What did you noticed this time that you didn't notice last time ? Lori's discussion with Daryl re his looking for Rick - on my first watch I thought he was a little harsh and was a bit of an ass for not helping her, but on this rewatch I noticed she didn't ask, she makes an assumption that she can just tell him to go and he therefore should acquiesce, her simply saying "I need you to go...", just spoke of entitlement and it brought me back to Carol's comment to her that she's their "First Lady" - it's almost as if she assumes they will all do what they are told, no please, no sense of 'hey I know I'm asking a lot but could you help me out'. On this watch I'd have likely told her the same damn thing so I don't blame Daryl for his response.

    I was pissed at her and Shane being against Rick going into town, I kept wanting her to just see the big picture just once. Rick knows she had Carl by Csection, and I'm sure he's well aware of the risks of the pregnancy, and had to think long term. This man is so burdened by leadership even this early on. What I noticed though is after he explains it to her, she still doesn't go to him. There he is standing there watching the Gleggie goodbye all by his lonesome. At least come out and tell him to be careful, anything. The glaring fissures in their marriage is very apparent, even when mixed in with the few tender moments.
     
    #13 Caribbeanqueen11, Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  14. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    I forgot to add that this is Rick's first human kills and the start of his rise as a true leader!

    @SevenStars I hope you get some rest and get better soon!
     
    SevenStars and Jetamors like this.