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Poll TWD Rewatch Club: Sick 3x02

Discussion in 'Season 3' started by SevenStars, Aug 24, 2016.

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What grade would you give 3x01 ?

  1. A

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. B

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Hey guys,

    First of all, I like to say thank you to all those who participated in our little live-viewing activity. It was really fun and enjoyable. It was so enjoyable that I would love to be able to do it every week. But I know that's not possible for everyone, so back to our regular schedule program until next time. I hope those who couldn't join us last time, can join us next time, cause I missed you guys.

    Here are the questions for this:

    1. What do you think Rick meant when he told Lori that she “said this now….” when they were talking about either killing the prisoners or letting them live beside them ?

    2. Why do you think Maggie just stood there and didn’t try to do CPR on Herschel ?

    3. What do you think of the last scene with Lori and Rick ?

    4. What was different about the writing for women in this episode ?

    5. What did you noticed that you didn't notice last time ?

    I know this is a few episodes behind but I wanted to ask this question and see what you guys think.
    Do you think Shane was a villain ?

    @Sasha's Living Room @lovingdead @Katbird @Flower1petals @Caribbeanqueen11 @MrsG @chaundee @GooeyGoobert @Canuckgirl @Jetamors
    @TexasZAgal
     
  2. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    The live watch was fun, thank you for organizing it!

    The feeling of it was definitely there and I could see it on his face that he was thinking it, but I don't remember him saying that...? Maybe I'll have to look again.

    I wondered the exact same thing at first. It's possible she doesn't know though. Patricia was the one who helped Hershel with medical stuff back at the farm, and not his daughters. Carol wasn't there or she would've been the one to do it.

    Painful. This is the Lori's On Her Best Behaviour ep, after all. On the one hand I don't believe in rushing forgiveness and on that note I can totally appreciate that Rick has lightened up quite a bit from when they just arrived at the prison. On the other hand, I believe Lori's remorse is genuine, and of a depth proportional to her "crimes." I can't help but think that Rick would have tried to patch things up with her, had they had more time. A part of me wishes they had tried, and then realized that they're just not compatible as husband and wife and it has nothing to do with the ZA (!). As things are I'm not sure if they ever did.

    It's established that women have a wider range of roles to play in the group now. All of them can fight if they have to, as far as I can tell. Carol was taught medical skills by Hershel, and is pleasantly pro-active about learning to do a C-section. Carol in particular has already come a long way from how she was in S1-S2, as some observed in the live viewing. Still, there's the problem of Beth though. Carl is years younger but (even unbidden) does way more than she does.

    This is my third watch but it still strikes me how hard the writers seemed to be working to redeem Lori in the eyes of the viewer before she died. She does almost everything right, this ep. She didn't just play a key role in saving Hershel's life, but she's a pillar of strength and support ("Do I look worried?") to Beth and the others when they're worried about Hershel, too. Carol and Lori are joking around about how terrible they look-- quite good terms they've ended up on now. She comments to Rick that it was "a good day" because they found food and Hershel survived, rather than whining or complaining. She has a point when she scolds Carl and doesn't really deserve the cold shoulder he gives her. Unfortunately they didn't think of balancing her out like this in S2, so most people just hate her regardless.

    Not at first, but by the time he plotted to kill Rick, yes he was. (It's such a gradual shift it's hard to be sure when to call it tho.)
     
  3. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    I really enjoyed the liveviews too! (Though BTW, I think we're overdue to move to the Season 3 forum XD )

    Basically pointing out a common pattern in their conversations: there are times when Lori would say things like "whatever you want", but really she disagreed with the decision, and either continued to bring it up or tried to change things in another way.

    I mentioned something about this way back in S1, but I actually wouldn't put all of the blame for that pattern on her: especially in their S1 interactions, you see that on his side, he asks her for her advice, but then he doesn't actually change anything or take her opinions into account. (You might say, but Lori has poorer judgment than Rick. This is true, but then the question is why is Rick with someone whose judgment he doesn't trust or value?) Anyway, this leads to a toxic pattern on both sides: she feels like she has no say, so she resorts to methods other than giving her free and honest opinion to influence events, and then on his side, he can't trust what she says because it doesn't reflect what she actually thinks or does.

    I actually didn't notice this at all when I was watching, but I would guess it was due to the stress and shock. I mean, this is her father.

    This is the last conversation that they ever have, right? :(

    I said somewhere in the live watch for the last episode that one of the reasons Rick and Lori are in such a bad state is because they can't really get away from each other or get any time alone with each other. Well, in this episode they get the last one, and while I don't think either of them left the conversation very happy, at least they know where they stand.

    After watching it, I actually went back and rewatched the conversation they had before this. Some things I noticed: Lori is the one who engages Rick to ask about the prisoners. Rick opens up a little about the doubts he's having, but he actually never asks her for her opinion. She's trying to be "good wifey" again (which is something she can never keep up for very long), but she's hurt him too many times and he doesn't feel safe being vulnerable to her.

    One thing I wonder is what would have happened to their relationship if Lori hadn't died. TBH, I think it would have taken some time, but they would have fallen back into the same bad patterns: he'd start opening up to her a little again, things would seem to get better, but she wouldn't be able to keep up the submissive no-opinions thing, and then she'd do something accidentally or on purpose to hurt Rick, and the pendulum would swing back.

    It's interesting, because we see a gendered division of labor here, but it actually didn't grate on me as much as it did in Season 1. The women are the primary ones taking care of Hershel (even Glenn, who's there, isn't doing much in the way of care), while the men are the primary ones going out and engaging with others. The reason I didn't mind so much is because everyone had non-stereotypical reasons for what they were doing. Beth and Maggie needed to be with their father, Lori was heavily pregnant, and with Hershel down, Carol is the best person for medical care. Glenn stays to support the Greenes, and there are non-stereotypical reasons for him to sort of be the protector here: he's not as emotionally involved as Maggie and Beth, he's not pregnant, and he isn't the primary medical person. Everyone else is dealing with the prisoners.

    I also really liked everything with Carol here: the group made sensible contingency plans for if Hershel was out of commission, and she takes the lead in helping Hershel and in preparing for Lori's upcoming birth. I like that last episode highlighted her new combat skills, and this one highlights her new non-combat skills--nuanced skillsets are one good way to avoid the kind of Strong Female Character Syndrome we saw with Andrea last season.

    Female zombie kill count update: Carol pops one through the fence to practice surgery on.

    I really loved Rick talking to Glenn about staying with Hershel. I'm noticing so much of their friendship, and how Rick is sort of... big brother-y?... to Glenn that I didn't pay attention to before.

    So Andrew was the person watching Carol from the woods?

    Incidentally, if it's been 294 days since the prisoners were locked in, that means it's been about 9 months and 20 days since the start of the ZA.

    I would say that he was in S2, but not in S1.
     
  4. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Season 3 is the season I became a unashamed, unabashed, all-in fan of TWD. I realized that the story being told had very little to do with the actual "walkers"...they seemed incidental to the story. When I saw them taking the prison in the season premier, I was just so impressed, as in it was smart: "Wow, what a good idea to live in a prison, I would have never thought of that...how smart." Duh! I was super lame and naive about TWD universe back then, still am in many respects. This episode had me crying like a baby about Hershel. That scene when Maggie talks to him, so special, so touching. I am a real daddy's girl...that scene hits very close to home, the words she says, her emotions, vey real. Thank goodness he survived. They learned that a bite is survivable if the limb can be amputated.

    I felt so many conflicting emotions watching this. I felt bad for the prisoners finding out about things, it was terrible for them.. I was immediately sorry for Rick having to make such hard choices. He knew he was going to have to kill Tomas , almost immediately. He was a bad guy, Rick can really tell about people. I love Axel, he is my favorite redshirt. I liked them all except Tomas and Andrew, of course. And they had a point about being there first, Rick was not trying to hear none of that, lol. The look Rick gets, his "I'm gon' have to kill him." look is priceless. That line to Andrew: "You better run." is in my top ten . But, it really hurts him, the choices he has to make. He just kinda has moments when he tries to detach from what he does, it is so hard on him, the burden is already taking a toll on him. If he didn't have Daryl, (I know people don't like him, but Rick needs him. And, not in a "use him for my gain" way. Needs his help, his partnership) I don't think he would have been able to put the prisoners in check. Daryl is essential to the making of Rick as absolute leader, I will always believe that. No Shane behavior for him...we know why, but still, I think they have a special friendship/bond. They chose each other, that is rare for adult men. (I know Daryl is not an adult emotionally or maturity wise, but he is a man.) I liked the way the two were on the same page about Tomas and him wildin' out...that was totally outer limits...he sealed his fate.
    One of the things I like about this season is Glenn becoming hella bad...Rick has a tremendous influence on him..more on that as the season progresses.
    1.He was totally thinking about her reaction to him telling her he killed Shane. He was putting it out there..."you say this BS, then you cut my balls off.". He has his defenses up with her, she has a pissed off husband, and quoting Shane, "she ain't got the first clue how to fix it." Rick doesn't seem as angry as he does hurt. He is kinda waiting for her to give him permission to put things right. When he fusses at her in the season premier but then is so pleased to get her that prison, a place of respite and relative security, you know he is still committed to her as his duty. Maybe not love for him at this point but, still committed. So, a lot of that was an acknowledgment that he knows they are not on the same page, and was a little admission that they never were. But, I guess he wants her to co-sign him...but it's too late for that. Lori was in an impossible situation. I don't have the heart to chide her. Her biggest mistake, other than not telling Rick about being with Shane, was not knowing who she was married to, not knowing her husband.
    2. I think she was just going to let him go...that takes a lot of strength. She wants her dad, of course, but that's about her and Beth. The person maybe tired of fighting and is staying for others, and others can definitely hold them here (Is my Southern showing?). But we know Hershel is not a quitter and would fight to survive, but I get it. At that point they weren't sure he wouldn't turn...that's the first thing Beth said when they brought him back to the cell. I think of Maximus at the end of *Gladiator*, struggling to stay until Lucilia (sp?) tells him it's okay to go. I ball my eyes out on that, too.
    3.So very sad, but good. Good in the sense that Rick was thinking about how she was feeling after the situation with Hershel. He feels things so deeply. I was feeling sorry for Lori, and Rick. They have very little left to say to each other. I think Lori wants him back, I mean , wants him to love her. But, does she love him our just want him for her husband? Those two baffle the hell outta me! Before that scene it felt like, especially with the premier, that he wanted to hurt her, or at least let her know how she hurt him, like: "Look what you make me do, what your bullshit has turned me into! I make this choices to keep you safe, alive, but it's still not enough." She is clearly resigned to things not being salvageable, but then he rubs her shoulder, getting a taste of her own medicine via her treatment of Shane, and she is overjoyed...she tried to take in his scent...I think he misses that: his scent, his touch, his voice, ('cause he certainly doesn't talk to her,), him.
    4. The women were doing what needed to be done...that was good. The men were occupied with other things, but things got handled. Carol, wow, what a change! She is working her way through the ZA and is not looking back. I even liked Beth telling Maggie that their dad could make it, she was not giving up on him. I already said how I love the talk Maggie has with Hershel...she wasn't in this denial state, she was facing the truth. I would never judge...he is her daddy. I think it must have been just the two of them for a while before he remarried, so her relationship wiith him is different from him and Beth's relationship. Lori's situation is awkward and is written a bit awkwardly. The writers were trying, though. Scared to be too honest.
    5.I noticed that Glenn is determined to measure up to Rick. He was not about to let him think he couldn't handle it, things with Hershel. He squared his jaw and told him: "I got it." I noticed that the Tomas is smart, he knew that leaving was a bad idea, he made the smart play to take out the leader. He just didn't know who he was foolin' with. Machete to the head!! Done and done! That damn Rick! I noticed the physical change in Carol. She is ready for the way the world is. I had mentioned to a friend how this episode was "woman's work" heavy. Birth and nurturing life in a world of death, a serious theme.
    It took me two days to work up to the follow up question, lol. I held my had over my mouth. "Shane" and "villian" in the same sentence?...egads! I think everyone knows how pitiful I am when the subject turns to Shane Walsh. I . Just. Can't. Help. It. I think Shane was caught up. I think Shane was a man undone. I think Shane was not able to be the man Rick is/was, ever. I think Shane was way aware of that fact. I think Shane, in his way, was trying to do what kept people alive. I think Shane loved Rick...was "in love"with Lori because he wanted to be Rick. I think Shane had a broken heart, mind, and spirit. I think Shane was backed in a corner. I think Shane is Judith's father, hence the feeling he was cornered. I think Shane wanted Rick to do just what he did, probably what he had always done in their relationship, be the one to decide what they were going to do. I think Shane was waiting for Rick to choose, decide...I think Shane knew what Rick would do on that little rise in the moonlight. I think Shane did not want to kill Rick. I think Shane was very scared of himself. I think Shane was really sorry about the way things happened. I think Shane thought his friendship with Rick was the best thing in his life.
    I don't think Shane was a villian. I wish I could reconcile my thoughts/feelings about Shane, my goodness, it's been five years since he was even on the doggone show! I just feel like he could not escape the situation he found himself in. And, yes, a lot of it was because of his own actions, but he was so over whelmed. He tried the things he knew: sex, guns, fighting, power of personality...that skill set was never superior to Rick's command of himself as a man. The end of things just made that so evident, he wasn't able to stand up to it, the difference between the two of them. The weight of it crushed him.
     
    #4 Katbird, Aug 26, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2016
  5. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    OK so I finally rewatched that scene where Rick says "You say that now..." For some reason I thought while reading everyone's responses that he said that line after she told him she didn't believe he had malice in his heart (in which case I would have considered it more significant). But actually she says it right after he tells her his (other) "option" is to kill the prisoners and she replies "whatever you think is best." It never really made an impression on me before (except to want to eyeroll a bit at Lori's continual noncommittal attitude) but now that I look (yet) again, I can see why people would notice. Rick was so wary of Lori's pattern of not being reliably supportive, his letting that line fly was a bit of a truth bomb. It did sting her, and spurred the wife/mother-of-the-year award comment.

    I think @Jetamors nailed the dynamic between Lori and Rick, and how they'd probably just fall back into their old patterns. Sadly, this conversation serves as evidence considering that even now, when we're literally seeing the best version of Lori she ever had a chance to be, she's still not saying what she really thinks about the situation. Even now she doesn't get that Rick is not the kind of guy who wants to hear pleasantries and comforting lies. He's not bothered by civil disagreements, but he absolutely is bothered by people close to him hiding their thoughts and feelings.

    Ironically though, I think it was exactly because Shane got bolder and bolder about challenging Rick's leadership (and marriage) that Rick began to embrace his leadership role. From S1 to a little into the second half of S2, Rick was a reluctant and uncertain leader. He wasn't doing a bad job (!), but he could never be certain because (a) he was pretty much reinventing the wheel since there was no real precedent for this, (b) he has always been able to read the general mood of the group but in the beginning, the Atlanta group as a whole was (understandably) naive, and (c) Shane kept questioning everything he did. Once Rick realized that there was another reason for (c) in Shane's coveting his wife, he only had to worry about (a) and (b), or balancing his personal ethics with the collective will (and growing wisdom) of the group.
     
  6. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    Sorry guys I've been dealing with a family emergency, so I'm behind.

    1. What do you think Rick meant when he told Lori that she “said this now….” when they were talking about either killing the prisoners or letting them live beside them ? This was such a sad, sad episode for me. Rick calling her out on her actions and her lack of support made me wonder if that had been one of the issues of their marriage pre the ZA, along with the lack of communication. What I had not noticed was that he makes a point of looking away from her that entire scene. Even when she tells him she knows he has no malice in his heart, he does not even acknowledge her.

    2. Why do you think Maggie just stood there and didn’t try to do CPR on Herschel ? I think she was in shock. As ready as she was to let him go, when he stopped breathing she just froze.

    3. What do you think of the last scene with Lori and Rick ? Their conversation at the end was heartbreaking and it was in this scene that I actually forgave Lori. I wanted for him to open up to her but it was clear this was the end. To me, this is when they formally ended their marriage. Seeing the distance between them and the expressions on Loris face especially SWC's expressions was so poignant. OT I forget how pretty SWC is, I've seen her in a social setting and always thought she was pretty if not too thin, but the shots of her, the lighting etc. she looks really beautiful.

    4. What was different about the writing for women in this episode ? The women were much better in this episode, the way the worked together to save Hershel; Carols take charge attitude in knowing what needs to be done and being practical about the need to practice to help Lori when she goes into labour; Maggie and even Beth's strength in a very stressful , frightening situation.

    5. What did you noticed that you didn't notice last time ? I had not paid attention to Carol's line to Glen that the baby was "overdue". I'm assuming that she's being polite and attempting to protect the facade that Rick is the father at least for Glen's sake. It's at least a week later when Hersel is able to hobble outside so she's pretty "overdue".

    I know this is a few episodes behind but I wanted to ask this question and see what you guys think.
    Do you think Shane was a villain?
    By Oxford's definition yes. But IMO it was not so cut and dry. Shane for all his bravado was weak. Looking back at his words to Lori that Rick was not "made" for this world, the truth is that it was Shane that was not made for this world. Shane was reactive and completely ruled by his emotions at any given moment. He could not see beyond his own obsessions and his actions, because of this, became villainous.
     
  7. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I think while a character can be emotionally weak without being a villain (S1-2 Carol and Lori, S4-5 Eugene and Gabriel, etc.), I don't think one can be a villain without being emotionally weak (Shane and the Governor). Even a psychopath/sociopath (i.e. probably Negan but it's early yet) is operating on a certain form of emotional weakness (the inability to feel remorse/compassion can be seen as a form of weakness).

    @Caribbeanqueen11 I hope your family emergency has been/can be resolved without too much trouble. Please take care!
     
  8. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Just thought I'd say I'm on vacation, so I'll be running behind for bit, but I'll catch up by next week. I'll still be posting around this site because I'm in too deep :lol:, but I won't have time to rewatch just yet until I get home.
     
  9. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Ooo, enjoy your vacation! I will live vicariously through you!
     
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  10. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    “Pay to play” scene with Rick and the prisoners reminded me so much of the whole Negan/Hilltop situation. The minute I saw Rick saying that, I was like, yeah, this won’t be the last time you make a deal like this.

    I :lol::lol: watching Rick/T/Daryl stands back watching those fools fight with that walker, forgetting everything Rick/T/Daryl told them about walkers just seconds/minutes ago. It was fun to see.

    Lori was really, really trying with both Rick and Carl. I felt bad for her the way Carl treated her, all because she was showing honest concern for him.

    I’m really loving the Carol transformation from last season.

    I really love how cold-blooded Rick was in this episode.



    1. What do you think Rick meant when he told Lori that she “said this now….” when they were talking about either killing the prisoners or letting them live beside them ?

    I think it goes back to Lori telling him that Shane was dangerous. That he needed to do something about Shane and the situation. But when he did do something, Lori acted like he was bad/ wrong for making the decision to kill Shane, despite the fact that he told her it was a matter of life and death between him and Shane. He can no longer trust her when she says that she is okay with him doing what he needs to do to keep himself and them alive. That was him letting her know that, if she didn't already know. I understood where he was coming from but I felt bad for her.

    2. Why do you think Maggie just stood there and didn’t try to do CPR on Herschel ?
    I think she was scared to move, she was afraid that if she moved it would be a reality that her Dad was truly dead. I think she's been so busying preparimg Beth for his death that she didn't really take the time to prepare herself. So when it seems like he was dead, she just froze.

    3. What do you think of the last scene with Lori and Rick ?
    It was really sad but it felt like Rick was breaking up with her. Like he couldn't divorce her but he was done with the marriage.I know Lori played a big part in their marriage ending up where it did but I still felt bad for her because I think she started realizing how much she truly loves Rick. I think Rick had become a man that she could fall in love with, a man she could spend her life with unlike the Rick before the Z.A. I think she saw a Rick that she didn't know she was looking for and that made her love him again in a way that she didn't before the Z.A, before the Shane killing, before she spent months with him leading the group non-stop. Unfortunately, I think the Z.A made Rick loves Lori less then before. I think it made him see a side of her that he didn't like. It made him stop believing in the love she might have for him. I think he would have come to appreciate her as person, as someone he was in love with and married to but I'm not sure he would have ever allowed himself to love her the way he should.

    4. What was different about the writing for women in this episode ?
    I loved how pro-active all of them were, especially Lori and Carol. I'm not going to judge the fact that all the women stayed behind to deal with Herschel while the guys, except for Glenn went on to deal with the real threat. Base on the situation, I can understand why because Lori is pregnant, Carol is needed to stay with Herschel because of her medical knowledge, Beth and Maggie needed to be with their Dad just in case these were his last moments.

    But I will judge the fact that Rick felt it was necessary to leave behind Glenn in case Herschel needed to be put down. Like the women couldn't do it themselves. I thought that was condescending towards the women and I hated it.

    5. What did you noticed that you didn't notice last time ?

    I paid more attention to Lori scenes. This time I noticed how much she truly wanted to try again with Rick. How defeated she felt about the situation with both Rick and Carl. How very helpful she was to the group. She took her role as being "First lady" seriously, and tried to handle the duties that comes with it as best she can while being pregnant and scared. Unlike last time, there were a lot of things about Lori that I liked seeing in this episode.


    Do you think Shane was a villain ?
    I don't think Shane was a villain in the traditional sense because I don't think he was evil. I don't think he wanted or liked being the bad guy. I think he truly believes that the way he views things was the only way to survive. That he didn't intend to be the bad guy but saw it as something that was necessary. I think he truly loves Rick, Lori and Carl. I think he cared about the group. But everything got twisted in his head because he truly believes the world have created a situation in which it was the survival of fitness. It was no longer a world for people like Rick but for people like him.

    In the end, I felt sad for Shane. I didn't hate him, I just pity him and felt sad, wondering what could have been.
     
    #10 SevenStars, Aug 31, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
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  11. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    @Sasha's Living Room

    I didn't noticed this but you are right, they started this shift at the start of the season. But maybe it wasn't so much about redeeming Lori but the fact the new writers (@Caribbeanqueen11 am I correct in saying this) have learned how to better write the women on the show. So that it doesn't seem like Z.A didn't only making the dead come alive but also send the world back in the past. Because from the start of the season, it seems like all the women characters have been written better to the point where we kind get the complexity of their personalities.
     
  12. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    @Jetamors

    OH SHOT, I didn't even noticed this, :oops::lol:, but you are right. I'm going to ask @Doctor Grimes to move those post to the correct season for me. Thanks for telling me.

    You are right, it seems like a pattern with her and I think her reaction to him making a decision to protect their family ( after she asked him if he would do anything to protect his family) against Shane was the straw that broke the camels back for him.

    I wouldn't totally agree with the idea that he doesn't trust or value her judgement but maybe the reason he doesn't trust her ideas is because he doesn't trust her as person as a result of their broken marriage. I mean she was questioning his love for his son in front of his son, when it was clear to him and unquestionable to him how much he loves his son, so that would a play a part in him not trusting her judgement because that question from her call into question her judgement, at least to him.

    But I always say that the reason Rick doesn't take Lori's ideas is because they are usually base on her feeling defeated because of how things have turned out. Lori doesn't seem to have much hope in the future while Rick is all about having hope, at least for Carl. But he keeps hoping that somehow, Lori will start to share in that hope, so he keeps going to her for ideas, for suggestions, hopping that maybe Lori will start giving him ideas that suggest she has hope and faith in the future. I think Rick was hopping and looking for too much when it comes to Lori. Lori was already feeling kind of hopeless in regard to the future before the Z.A because of her broken marriage to Rick, then she had to watch the world turn into something no one expected or can fix. So for Rick to expect her to have as much hope as him was kind of understandable but unrealistic. I know I'm the one who mentioned before why I think Lori should have the most hope outside of Rick but at the same time I understand why she doesn't.

    I also agree with your last sentence about why Rick can't trust Lori's opinion.


    I agree, after the Shane situation, Rick no longer trust Lori enough to go to her for advise/suggestions. I think that's an example of him truly being done with their marriage. In his mind, they are no longer partner. But Lori is trying because she wants to go back to what they were trying to have when he came back to the camp.


    I actually don't think they would have fallen back to the same pattern. I think Rick would have truly become the man Lori could/would really love and wants to be with. It wouldn't be like the Z.A where she questioned her love for him. But I think Rick wouldn't have been able to let go of the past and try with her again. He has too many doubts about her feelings for him. He doesn't trust her with himself anymore and Rick seems to be really just over their relationship.

    I agree, except I viewed Rick asking Glenn to stay behind differently but you might be onto something because I didn't think of Glenn as being there to support the Greenes. Since we had Carol and Lori there, I just assumed that would be something they would be doing.

    I really love what they are doing with Carol too. I think it's a nice character development.
     
    #12 SevenStars, Aug 31, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
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  13. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Like you, I never saw Shane as villain, I still don't. I think all of these things you described in this post are the reasons why I can't put Shane in the same category as the Governor.
     
  14. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    @Caribbeanqueen11

    Don't worry about it, we all get behind. I'm an example of that, lol. I hope all is well with your family.

    I agree, it truly seems like the end of their marriage and from now on Rick was just going to treat her like another member of the group, as the mother of his children. That scene makes me think there wouldn't be a reunion between them even if Lori had stayed alive. Rick truly was done with his marriage and I think Lori kind of lost hope for it after the way he ended their conversation.

    I didn't noticed that either it. It seems like the group was trying to be tactful when it comes to Lori/Rick's situation. I like that.
     
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