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Poll TWD Rewatch Club: Vatos 1x4

Discussion in 'Season 1' started by SevenStars, Jun 19, 2016.

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What grade would you give episode 1x3

This poll will close on Jun 19, 2018 at 9:40 PM.
  1. A

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  2. B

    8 vote(s)
    72.7%
  3. C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Hi, Guys,


    I'm sorry for making this post so late. I got caught up in OITNB and I just.....this season of OINTB completely gutted my heart. So anyway, I'm really happy with the discussion we had in the last post and I loved reading everyone different thoughts/opinions on things. I can't wait to read what you guys have to say about this episode.

    I'm going to keep posting the plan for this club in every post, going forward for at least the first few weeks so that those who are joining us for the first time can get the info. For those who read it in the last post, just skip it and go to the questions.

    1. We watch two episodes per week. Wednesday and Sunday. We spend the days in between each episode discussing the episodes. So we have would have a 3 days to watch and discuss each episodes.

    2. I will try to post at least 3 questions in each new episode post but that doesn't mean that's the only thing we can discuss. If people have other comments, or questions base on the episode, they are free to post them and add them to the discussions. The questions that I be posting is just like something to break the ice, nothing more. So people don't have to feel obligated to only talk or respond to these questions. This discussion is free for all type of style as long we try to stay within the context of the episodes.

    3. The post for each episodes will be posted in the seasons thread with a poll for each episodes.

    Now onto the questions for the episode itself and remember try to response to these questions before you read others responses.

    1. What did you think of the Jim storyline ?

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).

    3. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)

    Like always, I will be posting my comments and answers later. Sorry I couldn't think of more interesting questions to ask but OITNB truly got fuck-up.

    Since it seems like the last post I made kind got lost on the broad for some people, I think it's because I accidentally put it in the wrong thread. Anyway, I decided to tag those who joined in the last discussion, so they can more easily find this post.

    @Sasha's Living Room @lovingdead @Katbird @Flower1petals @Caribbeanqueen11 @MrsG @chaundee @Gooey Goobert @Canuckgirl @Jetamors @
    TexasZAgal

     
    #1 SevenStars, Jun 19, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2016
  2. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I really love/hate this episode, lol. A lot of pain and trauma in this one. The story was easy on us up to this point. No one we knew had been killed yet, I hadn't realized that before. I was so absorbed by the Vatos and the situation with Merle, I had not put it together that the storytellers were going easy on us before. That episode showed us how things after the turn would be. The Vatos, wow, I liked them. The way they were written was a bit clichéd, but "G" was well-acted. I think the stereotypical thing was used to show us that it was just that, posturing, putting on a show, to keep the bad ones at bay. Play acting, a play within a play...very sophisticated, I think. It was pretty good. I know people don't like him much, but that dern Daryl, I can't help it...I loved him in this episode: "I'm gonna stomp your ass!". So good!

    1. I was just so sad about Jim. He was trying not to think about losing his wife and children...trying to put on a brave face. Then, Rick comes back and is reunited with his family. It was too much for him. He dreamed a dream of the attack...I believe people can have things like that happen to them. It is strange and terrifying...what do you do with the information/knowledge when it comes to you? It's not lottery numbers. Scary, crazy...what coud he do--he dug the holes. I felt so bad for him.

    2. The women were shown, again, to be dependent on the men for protection. I really think it is sooo early on. I know some of them may be still thinking, this thing will be solved, it will be fixed, we will go back to our lives, different, but the same. Maybe they don't think that there is much need to learn to put down the walkers? Idk, It seems that the creatives are going to great pains to hammer that home, that the women need the men for protection. I have to think some about that...hmmm.
    3. I noticed T-Dog was willing to help look for Merle even though he was a jerk to him and he let Rick know they were not going back to their people without a man again. Rick has always been able to settle Daryl down. He gets him. I did not notice before, how well Jeffrey DeMunn delivered his monologue around the fire. Storytelling around the fire, building/rebuilding community. Communal eating, no wonder that group got so strong and attached to each other...they were working on it from the beginning.
    **I have to mention a special thing for me in this episode was the references to Faulkner and Chinua Achebe's Things Fall Apart (that title is taken from a poem)...I am a real lit-nerd. I loved that.
     
    #2 Katbird, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  3. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    I've always really liked Andrea and Amy's conversation in the boat in the opening of this episode. I was also thinking it would be neat to have a spin-off about the Vatos. Apparently at one point they were considering having the group go back in a later episode and find their place abandoned/destroyed, but I'm glad they didn't go with that.

    It was okay, I guess? I didn't really have any strong feelings about it. Though I wonder how the group would have reacted in later seasons; I think they'd be more likely to just let him be.
    So, we're four episodes in now... has any female character killed a zombie yet? Will the first one be Andrea killing Amy next episode?
    How much Rick and Daryl disliked each other at first... I'd forgotten about that. Also, didn't they have tin cans on strings around the camp? How did the walkers get in without tripping them?
     
  4. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    1. What did you think of the Jim storyline ?
    Mmm, I thought it was kind of weak. He never really sold it for me. His line at the end seemed awkward and forced to me. I get what they were trying to do, but compared with what was going on with Rick and Co. it just wasn't as compelling to me.

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).

    I though the Amy and Andrea talk was well written, not that well acted though. I do like that they were the ones that provided the seafood feast for the camp. They contributed in their own way.

    3. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    1. There were extra people in the camp for this episode who either I never saw before or never had lines or were addressed. I feel like they were added just to provide more casualties for this attack.
    2. I always loved this episode. The confrontation with the Vatos was like a western mixed with a cop vs. hoodrat crime show. Some people found this episode stereotypical, but the point to me was some of these guys were upstanding pre-ZA, some may have been thugs, but at the end of the day they became heros for the most defenseless and formed a family. And we can't pretend like there are no Latino thugs. Hey, they deserve to be shown just as much as the Latino doctor or lawyer. It's not like they are trying to represent every Latino man on the planet. Look at the Latino family at the quarry. Sometimes I think people get way sensitive about representation at times and this is one of those instances. This was a slice-of-life story about a group of unlikely angels. The whole point was you were suppose to think they were a gang and then boom.
    3. Glenn has always been brave as fuck and a great strategist.
    4. TF has always been a random ragtag group. It was amusing to see Officer Grimes with T-Dog who looks like someone's lost uncle, redneck Daryl, and babyfaced Glenn the delivery boy as a gang of badasses. Amazing!
    5. Daryl needs to be tamed, what a hothead. But he is passionate, which is endearing.
    6. Rick, Rick, Rick. He showed a lot of dynamics this episode. He was the Daryl whisperer. He looked so sweet with abuela. I loved the imagery of him losing his hat and going back for it (Glenn too), it was symbolic of him trying to maintain his old identity in the midst of chaos. Rick is a sharer. And he was more badass in these early episodes than I gave him credit for originally. When he said, "... locked and loaded and we're here," I died. Such good delivery and he had no fucks to give with his crew backing him up. He was already an OG.
     
    #4 lovingdead, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  5. Flower1petals

    Flower1petals Den Mother

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    I had forgotten a lot of this episode, until the end. It was like a whole new one for me ( my old age).

    I really liked the opening with amy and Andrea, now looking back it foreshadowed Amy's death. It's what they do now. Give them a great scene then snatch them from us.
    1.Poor Jim. Having to watch his family go through that, and knowing that's how survived, would have had me feeling survivors guilt forever. I experience a lot of deja vu, which gives me pause everytime it happens. For Jim to be so spot on with his dream would freak me out if I was the others.
    I don't know why Shane thought it was that necessary for him to stop Jim from shoveling. He was far up on the hill. The kids couldn't see it until they gathered the troops and went to check. Maybe he was doing it to keep busy, work out his pain. Give the man some water and let him be.

    2. What bothers me about the women, is that it's 2010 (is it the same timeframe as RL), why are they acting like women are supposed to be in the background. This isn't the 1940's. Except for Carol, because Ed would never let her become self-sufficient, all the other women should be capable of a lot more. Pick up a tree branch and defend yourself. Ugh..

    3. Hell the whole ep was noticeably different because I really didn't remember it. I loved the twist about the vatos gang. Loved that they were really good guys caring for people. They didn't just leave the patient's there. I did like Daryl this ep. He probably started to grow on me here.

    Dale's still annoying. When does he die again? Lol

    Love Glen. He was super smart and you can see where his potential in the series is.

    Funny bits: T-Dog "We thought you were being eaten by dogs, man." look towards the dogs.

    Glen's sitting standing there like nothing's amiss. Rick " What's going on here" Glen "Asthma attack" but the way he said it like 'hello?' do you not see this? Had me laughing.
     
  6. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    This is not a story world in which clairvoyance should be expected from anyone, so I wasn't particularly cool with it. I wouldn't have minded it if he said he had "a bad feeling," but it's heavily implied he dreamed exactly what would happen. He even specifies that Carl is worried about Rick, and sure enough Rick's group doesn't get back until late. I also thought everyone overreacted to him digging the holes. If they were so scared, why did they all crowd around him-- children in tow-- when Shane came to ask what was up? I thought it should have just been two or three people confronting him, not everyone.

    I liked the Vatos storyline though. It's the first group-group alliance of the series. :)

    This ep wasn't too bad. I liked Andrea and Amy fishing. Their offer to teach Carl to fish was even better (including Lori's pleasant "no argument from me" which almost made up for her evident surprise that good golly, women can catch food too?!!).

    As mentioned by Flower1petals, I was not amused the women did nothing to defend themselves. Don't want to dwell on it every time, but at the very least Andrea could have tried. I also think it would be an awesome idiosyncrasy for Lori's character if she was all traditional about the women's "role" most of the time and yet could still pick up a stick and beat a walker to death when she had to. (The fact that she didn't is what makes me think that despite everything, someone like her might have been happier with someone like Shane had things gone differently.)

    Both the first time and now, it just killed me Andrea never even showed Amy the mermaid trinket she got her in those last moments, or put it around her neck after she died or SOMEThING. (Like Chekhov's gun not being fired, it bugged me to no end. But that's not so much a problem with women as an oversight by the writers.)

    This time, absolutely nothing. I do happen to know, though, that there is a deleted scene out there from S2 that involves Guillermo and Felipe's group. I think it was supposed to be right at the beginning of S2.
     
    #6 Sasha's Living Room, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  7. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Agreed. I thought the whole conflict was just off. Yeah, why did everyone care if he was digging? He wasn't bothering anyone. It was the beginning of Dale being a busy-body. And it was weird that, what, Jim's suddenly psychic? The whole thing was bizarre and served no purpose really. I think they just needed something to do, honestly.
     
  8. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I loved the way Rick pulled the gun on Daryl and told him that he wouldn’t hesitate to shoot him if he didn’t put down his crossbow. That was so fucking bad ass of Rick and gave us a view of who Rick would be force to be in order to protect his family. That scene also makes me realized that the closes people to Rick now is are the two people he pulled out a gun on, lol. I didn’t really think about that before but this scene makes me realize that.


    I loved how bad ass Rick was in this episode and this episodes also reminded me of why Daryl used to be one of my fav.

    1. What did you think of the Jim storyline ?
    That storyline kind of confused me because I wasn't sure what the writers were going for. I didn't know whether they wanted me to believe that Jim actually had a premonition about the Walkers over-running the place or whether it was his guilt about being alive while his whole family are dead was manifesting into him believing that somehow, somewhere the same thing was going to happen to their group. I didn't enjoy it because I don't know what I was suppose to take away from it. But I thought the actor who played Jim did a great job and I liked how Shane first tried to handled the situation.

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).

    I didn't like how helpless the women acted during the walkers attack while all the men were being active in trying to kill the walkers. None of them thought of getting a rock or anything hard that they can hit the walkers with. Instead all of them were just screaming about around like that was going to help the situation. I needed at least one of them, especially Andrea when she saw her little sister being attack to pick up something and try to defend her sister.

    So I didn't like that scene at all when it comes to the women.

    3. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)

    I noticed how tough Rick was from the start. I think because of Rick's baby face and his desire not to kill people when this first start, I kind over-looked what a bad ass Rick was from the start. He didn't like the idea of killing people, he wasn't okay with it. But when push come to shove, he will do what it takes to protect those who are around him. I like that and it makes Rick's transformation in later episodes more believable and true to character.
     
    #8 SevenStars, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  9. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I totally noticed how bad ass Rick was from the start too. I didn't really noticed that before. But watching this episode just gave me a new find love for how bad ass Rick Grimes can be, even when he was baby face newbie trying to keep the old world rules in the new world. I honestly loved every scene Rick was in. I think Shane ready to kill anyone and everybody to protect Lori/Carl kind of makes me over-looked Rick bad ass Grimes.

    AL was awesome in all of his scenes.
     
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  10. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    It's true Rick was a badass from the start. Thanks both of you for reminding me of one difference for me this time around: I saw all this badassery the first time but didn't believe until S2 that Rick had it in him to carry through on the threats he was making. Even with the Vatos I was sure he was bluffing! I love and have a weakness for characters that are strong fighters yet have a strong moral code and/or great humility (such as TV Tyreese). Once I saw Rick was the real deal, I knew I'd always love his character.
     
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  11. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Right? I started watching during season 4, so murder Rick was the first Rick I got. When I went back from the beginning the first time (watching old episodes in between the new ones) I was thrown, perhaps more than I should have been, by the contrast and took him for more docile and innocent as early Rick. Now, going back I see he was never docile and innocent. He was just less hardened all around, but he was still ready for action at the drop of a hat and able to think fast under pressure. He was probably his force's finest officer. I think it was the baby face that fooled us.
     
  12. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I agree, there was no need for all of them to go and bothered him. He wasn't hurting anyone. I think they just got paranoid about his actions and started worrying that they were dealing with someone who was losing his mind. I get why it bothered them because when someone start digging grave and shit, without telling you why, you have to wonder if they are doing it for you. I mean if they are planning on pulling a weapon on you and start killing you off one by one. It was kind of freaking of him to start digging those holes. But still, the situation would have been better if one or two of them had gone up there and talked to him, instead of all of them ambushing him like they did. Maybe have someone watching him at all time, just as a precaution measure.

    I would love to see the Vatos back on the show, like they somehow made their way into the Kingdom or Hilltop or even ASZ.
     
    #12 SevenStars, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
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  13. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    You made an excellent point about being unsure if he would go through with it. At this point he hasn't killed a human yet. So the confrontation with the vatos was even more dynamic because they all had poker face in sense. All parties thought the others were truly the bad guys and they had to posture to not lose. So adorable that it is the abuela that stops it. In effect, Officer Grimes walks the sweet old lady across the street like a southern gentleman.
     
    #13 lovingdead, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  14. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    True, he could have flipped and become a threat. I think they just wrote and executed the whole thing weird so it comes off hella contrived.
     
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  15. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    It truly was the baby face. If I made gif, I would totally go and make a gif set of all the time Rick shown himself to be bad ass, even while carrying around a baby face that looks like it wouldn't hurt a fly, :lol::lol::lol:. I'm telling you this rewatch is making love Rick more and more.
     
  16. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    Me too. The first time, I got to probably about the mid season finale of season four before I caught up with all the episodes. It wasn't until season three that I started being into him sexually and when Michonne showed up he really made me curious because of their interactions. Now that they are canon I am completely gaga for him. But going back and watching the beginning again, I'm like what took me so long? The only one I was into was Glenn (still am). I'm like why was I sleeping on sexy as fuck Rick Grimes?!
     
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  17. TexasZAgal

    TexasZAgal Ricktator
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    My thoughts on this episode. I know you asked us to comment on the questions you have set forth but I hope you don't mind me just saying what I think.

    1. I did not really understand Jim at first so you really could not understand why he had his break with reality. But later on when he talked about his family and how they died you realized that he was probably suffering from survivors guilt.

    2. To me it seems like the women are being written as basically helpless and really don't know how to take care of themselves and others. The fishing scene was nice and to me it was meant to see the difference between Andrea and Amy's upbringing.

    3. When Shane was beating up Ed it felt like he was beating up Rick, taking out his frustrations about the situation with Lori on Ed. But Ed deserved the beatdown so I don't feel all that bad.

    4. Glenn is such an adorable badass.

    5. My love for Rick grows with each episode. He is a real leader. I loved his interaction with the Vatos. I loved when the abulita pleads with Rick not to arrest her grandson and he was so sweet to her. And then when she tells Rick to come with her and they find Glenn watching them take care of the old man having an asthma attack. Then we look over at the vicious dogs and they are little Chihuahuas. I loved that the Vatos were taking care of the old folks.

    6. I found myself actually liking Daryl and understanding him.

    7. I did not realize until this viewing that that ran all the way from Atlanta to the camp.

    8. I realized that the folks at the camp were totally unprepared for the walker attack.

    I am leaving on vacation for a couple of weeks so see you when I get back.
     
  18. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    The questions are just to break the ice, nothing more. People can comment on anything that interest them in the episode, in fact, I encouraged it so that we can have a more vibrate discussion about these episodes. So please feel free to comment on anything that interest you in the episodes.

    I think you be right about Shane and Ed. Shane couldn't beat-up on Rick because he at least was self-ware enough to know that Rick wasn't at fault for the situation they found themselves in. And he couldn't just get away in order to distance himself from Lori/Rick and get his head together. So he took the opportunity to take out all of his frustration and pain out on Ed. Like you, I didn't care cause Ed has been doing the same thing to Carol for yrs.

    Yeah, this episode reminded me of why I used to love Daryl and why he used to be one of my favs.

    The camp really was unprepared and I think it's cause they believed they were totally safe there because they have been there for weeks and they hadn't seen a walker. That made them complacent about the situation that they are currently in.

    Have a great vacation, see you when you get back.
     
    #18 SevenStars, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  19. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I remembered something random about the episode. As Daryl starts to calm down after seeing Merle's remains there, he asks T-Dog if has "a durag or somethin'," even though T-Dog has no hair (and doesn't strike me as someone who would use one even if he did). It's reaching/cultural assumption-making on around the same level as calling Glenn "Chinese," but mostly, it just strikes me as interesting Daryl knew what one was.
     
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  20. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    I still hate this episode, even after 6 years. I will rewatch it tonight and give me unbiased opinion