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Poll TWD Rewatch Club: Vatos 1x4

Discussion in 'Season 1' started by SevenStars, Jun 19, 2016.

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What grade would you give episode 1x3

This poll will close on Jun 19, 2018 at 9:40 PM.
  1. A

    2 vote(s)
    18.2%
  2. B

    8 vote(s)
    72.7%
  3. C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I noticed that too. It was interesting that Daryl knew what it was called. It also say something that the writers had T-Dog have one. Since without hair, despite being a black man, T-dog wouldn't have a durag because durag are for black men who wants to keep a certain hair style.

    So do the writers not know what a durag is for, and they just assumed every black men use them?

    Maybe I'm reading too much into this because after watching OITNB I'm paying way more attention to how writers write racism in all it's form.
     
  2. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I can't wait to read what you have to say since you hated it when you first watched it.
     
  3. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    I had just finished reading the comic at that time, so it could have influenced me, but I know upon another rewatch, a few months ago, I still hated it. I will try my best to watch it without any bias
     
  4. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I thought it was a blue bandana he handed over and not a durag. Not sure. The first time I watched, when I heard Daryl ask that, I didn't get what he wanted it for, but maybe T-Dog understood he just needed any piece of cloth he could wrap the hand with. Also, I always seem to expect at least some mild protest from T-Dog and Glenn (who gets the cloth-wrapped bloody hand in his backpack). I wonder if they're sympathetic about Daryl not finding his brother, or they feel guilty about leaving him there, or they're just plain intimidated?
     
  5. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I think they just feel guilty, that's why they are willing to deal with him and help in anyway they can.
     
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  6. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    1. When I first watched this episode I felt it was a mishmash of various musings in FD's head to get to the big death in the end, however on this rewatch I got a better understanding of the story and a number of things are highlighted, which I'll go into later.

    1. I loved Jim's storyline. This is I believe the first PTSD case we see. Jim's re-telling of the death of his family was heartbreaking and you could see his struggles with survivors guilt in the retelling. The foreshadowing with the digging of the holes (graves) and the way it bookended the episode was really well done.

    2. The women were a little better in this episode, well in the beginning at least! LOL, by the end they were all screaming and, hugging their kids, and standing in the spot waiting for the men to save them. I wondered why Lori didn't have a gun, she was hiding behind Shane saying "What do we do? What do we do?" or why Andrea didn't use hers (although she was likely in shock after Amy was bitten).

    I was surprised that being a housewife Lori pulled away when Amy held up the fish towards her, but maybe she hates cleaning fish and was the type to just buy fillets.

    3. This was the first time Rick faced a human threat via the gang members, although they weren't a real threat in the end, the conversations that occurred at the retirement home set the stage for what was to come:

    Some key quotes for me,

    Rick - "I was nobody to Glen just some idiot in a tank he could have walked away but he didn't" - this was so bittersweet for me especially given the current filming spoilers.

    TDog -"The world changed" Guillermo - "No, it's the same as it ever was, the weak get taken" - so very true especially for what's to come.

    Guillermo - "The people here now, they all look to me now and I don't know why", Rick - "because they can" - both of these men have been placed in a role of leadership for the same reasons.. People look to Rick because he will protect them with his dying breath, something Shane would never do.. People look to Rick because they can.

    The start of Daryl accepting the group and fighting For them instead of against. Although he does it grudgingly and not without a lot of insult and criticism. LOL. This is when my love for this imperfect character began.

    I thought LH was amazing. As an aside she is quite beautiful, the water really highlighted her gorgeous eyes while she sat in that boat, and I started rooting for her and Rick in this episode (only to have that turn to shit later on, but that's for another post).

    I really hated the fact that Merle left Daryl behind. Even though he was pissed at the group for leaving him on the roof, why would he not get his baby brother. Merle was all about Merle. I know people say that the Governor found him, but I don't remember anything indicating that. I recall The Governor accusing them of leaving Merle handcuffed to the roof but it appeared he had heard the tale from Merle rather than being the one to rescue him.
     
  7. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    Alright, as I aforementioned, I hated the episode at first watch and even after a few rewatch. In fact, I tend to skip it altogether. However, in light of what as happened in subsequent seasons and the people they have met along the way, I can appreciate what was the intent behind this episode with the Vatos group. They were and still are the only group that were good even though they were confrontational with Rick's group. Their reason for the confrontation was to protect the less capable members. When you stack that against the Governor Gareth, the Grady cop and Negan, the Vatos were heroes. I hope they survived, I would hate to think such decent men ended up dying.

    1. What did you think of the Jim storyline ? Thinking back at what happened to him, I am surprised he held up that long. I would have gone crazy way earlier

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers). Apart from the sisters, everyone else relied on the men and it was frustrating. I remember in the comic, this was one of Rick's point of contention with Shane. He wanted to armed and train everyone to avoid a situation like it happened in the camp. Shane refused but his hand was forced after the attack.

    3. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post) How impressed Lori was after Amy and Andrea brought the fishes. When you think back on season 2 and their confrontation about the role of women in the group that was quite interesting
     
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  8. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Very good point. Like Shane, Lori is super-traditional about gender roles though, so I guess she figured handling fresh-caught meat was "men's work." @Canuckgirl also makes a very interesting related point about something from the comics above. Apparently Rick and Shane didn't just argue about having more men available to fight like in 1x3. Rick thought everyone should learn to defend themselves instead of leaving the women and girls (but probably not boys since I can't imagine comic Shane leaving Carl out too). Now that I've heard this, I'm really disappointed that this point of disagreement was completely excluded from 1x3. I can understand toning it down a bit so Shane wasn't too unlikable right off the hop, but to completely leave out such an obvious point of contention bothers me. I didn't even know I was making the case for Rick's side of this argument in the last thread!

    Also interesting. I suppose it's possible the Governor's guys took the Ferenc truck with them after they found Merle "on the rooftops," but that explanation does feel like it's missing something. (DId that truck ever turn up in Woodbury?) A brief flashback could have clarified this, but it's too late now (except maybe as part of a series of DVD extras or something).
     
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  9. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    The fact that the writers cut out Rick fighting to have everyone be prepare to fight while Shane was against it, is evidence for the argument that the writers wanted the audience to believe that women just went back to their natural role, nothing more. Because by having none of the men acknowledge that the women can and should learn how to defend themselves, it sent the message that the men too are of the believe that the world ended and women natural went back to doing "womanly" things while the men rule and defend them.
     
  10. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Yes, and it does a disservice to Rick's character imo. I wonder if that conversation in the car with Shane in 1x1 is anything like in the comic. I recall when skimming the 1x1 thread, I saw someone made a comment about how Rick made a very wild generalization about all men and women that should only have applied to him and Lori: "The difference between men and women is I'd never say something that cruel." (When she questioned his love for her and Carl in front of their son.) I wonder if that was an addition by the TV writers as well? (I hear Lori was more likable in the comics too...)
     
  11. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    It's been awhile since I read the GN, but did Rick and Shane have a conversation like 1.01 in the comic? Because my mind is blanking. I'm pretty sure that's a TV addition just as Rick's blanket statement about the difference between men and women.

    Lori was detested by readers in the GN too, but probably not as heavily as she was on the show. For one thing, Shane died very quickly in the GN, so that love triangle did not last long.
     
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  12. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Thanks for the insight. I do know Shane dies in the first issue of the comic, but I don't know if they have that conversation or not. Considering Rick wanted everyone learning to defend themselves, it sounds like he wasn't one to assign specific gender roles like Shane and Lori would, and so wouldn't put all men or all women in one box like in that car conversation.
     
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  13. GrimesGurl

    GrimesGurl Spooning with Rick
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    First, I just have to say how much I LOVED Rick's reunion with Lori and Carl!! When Rick steps out from behind the truck and first spots his family, his reaction was so believable! I think in the hands of a lesser actor it wouldn't have worked as well. Then first Carl, then Lori look over to see Rick and Carl screams 'Dad' and runs and jumps into his arms. Lori of course cannot believe that she is seeing her husband in the flesh and at that moment, I believed that she really thought he was dead. Its not that I excuse her screwing Shane so quickly after the ZA happened but I could believe the idea that trauma, confusion and fear combined with Shane's nearly blind desire to protect her and Carl drove her into his arms. Anyway, that last scene where they are all standing there hugging each other and Rick looks over at Shane with this unimaginably sweet and grateful look on his face...I swear that whole scene makes me tear up every time!!

    1. What did you think of the Jim storyline ?

    I didn't mind the Jim story line. If I remember correctly, Jim was one of the first people to get bitten and then slowly deteriorate which helped establish the different ways someone can go down after getting bitten. I think Jim's death also got everyone to start coming together.

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).
    I suppose the women behaved how one would expect them to so early after the ZA happened i.e. keeping themselves and their kids busy, trying to make a home as best they could and provide some sense of normalcy. I'm not a Mother but I can see that being a woman's first instinct especially since no one really knows what to expect yet. I liked the scene with them all at the river sharing girl talk and then defending Carol when Ed started in on her.

    3. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    I've always thought Shane was a wolf in sheep's clothing but after re-watching, I kind of liked him in this episode. I mean he was still kind of a prick but he was trying to provide some kind of leadership. I actually felt bad for him sitting up on top of the RV all by himself staring at Rick and Lori's tent knowing they were in there "reuniting". But, by the end of the episode, I was back to hating him again and realized that he doesn't really love Lori and Carl. I don't even know if he really loved Rick. I think he envied Rick and the life he had. I think he simply coveted Rick's family and wanted to take what Rick had because he was jealous.
     
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  14. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Fell behind there, but here's my thoughts:

    1. What did you think of the Jim storyline ?
    I thought it was a bit heavy handed. I was fine with him digging holes, but then that ending with him stating why was a little corny to me, mostly because of the timing. When I first watched this, I was expecting Jim to act out or do something more dangerous after he was released. I was pleasantly surprised how cooperative he was. Shane, also, was very kind and soothing, especially when he brought Jim water.

    2. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).
    Kind of the same as before. Although, I really enjoyed the fishing bit with Andrea and Amy.

    Seeing Carol and Lori educating Sophia and Carl does seem like they're waiting for the world to fall back into place. I understand why these women aren't doing more outside of the traditional roles. Especially Lori, since later on, it's shown that she does know how to shoot and yet doesn't bother to carry a gun in the early seasons.

    3. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)
    I found out why Merle didn't cut the chain instead of his hand. Daryl states that the blade was too dull. I also guess this nixes my previous idea that the helicopter contained the Governor's men since I assumed that Merle was found on the rooftop. A part of me loves the idea of Rick having a close encounter with the future villain.

    I was actually surprised that when the walker attack happened, Shane was also guarding Carol and Sophia. Not that I expected him to push them aside. Lori and Carl are still first in his mind, but if he has the opportunity to help others, he will. Up to a certain extent, of course. He was working his way to a vehicle, but that is a bit understandable given that it looked like they were outnumbered until Rick and Co showed up.

    The Vatos bit stuck out and just felt tonally different. I also wasn't a fan with how neatly that conflict resolved itself. Not that I'm asking for bloodshed, but the grandmother interfering in at the exact right moment just bugged me. It's also worth mentioning that the Vatos community doesn't end up making it according to the deleted scene. Of course, since it is a deleted scene, you can choose to believe whatever. But it's too bad we'll never know what happened.
     
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