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Poll TWD Rewatch Club: Walk with me 3x03

Discussion in 'Season 3' started by SevenStars, Aug 28, 2016.

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What Grade would you give 3x02 ?

This poll will close on Sep 28, 2019 at 6:25 AM.
  1. A

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. B

    2 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. C

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Hey guys,

    It's that time again. I hope everyone are having a very good weekend. My weekend, like it has been lately is busying when all I want to do is be lazy, lol. Seriously waking-up early in the weekends after spending all week waking-up early should be against the law. But that's life. Also would we call this episode Michonne's first bottle episode ?


    Here the are the questions:
    1. Are you surprise at how easy Merle follow the Governor ?
    2. Do you think it was good idea for the writers to show us that the Governor wasn’t as good as he appears.
    3. Do think Andrea had a right to be mad at Michonne for not revealing more information about herself ?

    @Sasha'sLivingRoom @lovingdead @Katbird @Flower1petals @Caribbeanqueen11 @MrsG @chaundee
    @GooeyGoobert @Canuckgirl @Jetamors
    @TexasZAgal
     
  2. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Well damn I hope you get some rest soon!

    As I understand it, it's not a bottle ep unless it's limited to a very few cast members and locations (esp. recycled locations, since bottle eps are supposed to be about saving money). But maybe "Clear" or "After" would qualify? I guess we'll see...

    On this watch, I reaffirmed my belief that Michonne was seeing things in the Gov that most of us would probably have never noticed. I think Merle was a little easier to read than ol' Philip though, and that might have helped. Also, the closeness with which they were watched and the inexplicable eagerness to keep them there despite the town having plenty of residents probably fed into it. But I'm not ready to blame Andrea for wanting to stay yet. (Because the depth of Andrea's obliviousness is such a hot topic, I'm watching closely to see if I missed anything in this area as well.)

    1. Yes I was at first-- you'd think he'd want to strike out on his own again? But the Gov is a manipulative guy. It's not hard for me to believe that he'd be able to guess just how to blow up Merle's ego enough that it would convince him to stay for the short term, which turned long-term because Merle had no plan on what he wanted to do in the mid-to-long term.

    2. I liked that they showed the Gov killing the marines early on. I don't like that the things Michonne noticed were so subtle at first, and worse, she was so inarticulate about what it was that bothered her. Though that being said, perhaps she figured that since the things she saw so far (in this ep) were relatively insignificant, it wouldn't convince Andrea that something was wrong.

    3. We all have a right to our feelings, but I find it odd that she'd be angry. Maybe disappointed or hurt would make more sense to me. If instead of acting like she had a right to access Michonne's past and inner world, she expressed that she felt distanced or left out, it would have made quite a difference in how that interaction went. Andrea even brought the topic up by throwing the moment Milton asked about the walkers in Michonne's face, which was not cool. When Carl asks Michonne about her son, not only did she bring the topic up herself first, but he's not all "Hey you know all about me, so cough it up!" with her. There's an appropriate level of respect there, whereas Andrea literally was pivoting off of a burn about what happened at dinner.

    *edit*
    forgot to mention: DG was amazing in that dinner scene btw, when Milton asked her that pointed (and kind of rude) question. Quite a break in the wall of strength she puts up for most of the ep. I know there's no real-world counterpart for this, but you'd think people would consider getting to know someone a bit first before asking such a thing.
     
    #2 Sasha's Living Room, Aug 28, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2016
  3. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    Not really. Actually I think he was seduced similarly to how Andrea was; he was sick, and I think psychologically many people put more trust in someone who's taken care of them and nursed them back to health. The other thing is that Merle's already tried it his way, and he ended up minus one hand, dying of thirst, and without Daryl around to follow him unquestioningly.
    Yeah, I think so. Or to look at it the other way, I don't think there would have been any benefit to dragging out the reveal. This isn't a case like Shane, where the character gradually descends into doing bad things, or a case like Randall, where the ambiguity is kind of the point. Might as well let the audience know from the start that this is a Bad Guy.
    I'm not sure that she really was mad... I'd describe her more as being frustrated. IDK that she was "right" to feel that way (certainly Michonne had no obligation to tell her more), but I think her feelings were valid.

    I think this conversation is also part of their differing reactions to Woodbury. Andrea's spent a lot of time with someone who's very closed-off, and I think part of the reason why she responds so positively to Woodbury is that they're seemingly more open with her. On Michonne's side, I think I remember Danai saying once that Michonne was basically looking for problems with Woodbury, and would have been suspicious and hostile to them even if they'd been on the up-and-up. So I'm not really sure Andrea is wrong to think that Michonne is being unreasonably suspicious; I mean, at this point, the only real yellow flag is them not being allowed their weapons. Something I want to pay more attention to in this rewatch is exactly how much Andrea knows about Woodbury in any given episode. (And tangentially, something that starts in this episode that I really like is that Andrea is getting most of her information on Woodbury from questioning other people, while Michonne is relying primarily on her own observations.)

    Female zombie kill count: no woman kills a zombie in this episode :( Michonne beheads her pets, but their heads are shown alive afterwards. (Actually this is a general problem with Michonne's kills; to be a little gory for a moment, it's often not clear whether she's cutting through the head or through the neck. My strategy so far has been to count these as kills unless the head is shown alive, but that means I might be overestimating her kill count.)

    With the introduction of Woodbury, we also can no longer say that every living female character has killed a zombie; restricting our list to characters with lines, we're introduced to Dr. Stevens and Rowan (the tour guide) this episode. However, this episode also introduces tertiary male characters who haven't killed a zombie on-screen, and we can still say that every major female character (ie, actress appearing in the credits) has killed a zombie.
     
  4. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Right away, let me say, I love Merle...I am a big fan of Michael Rooker. I know people like him, the character is very authentic, well played by Michael Rooker. Don't judge me too harshly. People like Merle (like Shane) are so interesting...they appeal to my quirky nature. (Psst, I like Martinez, too.) Having said that, I was very, very glad to learn Merle would be reappearing in the story. I was thrilled the first time around.
    The introduction of the Governor was, well, I don't know...don't like the actor and I just couldn't get a read on the Governor, never could, he was just too weird. I would always ask: "Is he crazy, is he broken or traumatized, what is up with him? He had a strange way...his thoughts about the walkers, his view of people--needing to manipulate them--so off putting. I guess he is a sociopath while Negan is a psychopath?...smh. I can't really see how Andrea was so smitten, but there's no way to explain attraction, it just is. The casting of Danai Gurira as Michonne was brilliant. How did they/we get so lucky? She is perfect. People talk about Andrew Lincoln being overlooked for an Emmy, Danai Gurura inhabits the role of Michonne. I was very impressed with her from the beginning. Just that scene when Milton guesses about the pet walkers, so much emotion without saying a word. I felt so bad for her.
    However, she was having none of what the Governor was putting down, good for her. He is so smarmy. It was a bit much seeing Andrea just go all in almost immeadiately for his obvious bullshit, the conversation at the table?...now, p!ease. Even I wouldn't believe that (without a lot more questions and explanations) and I usually take people at face value.
    1.I wouldn't say I was surprised, but I was wondering why he didn't just do the Merle thing, at first. Then I kinda figured out he was being pretty smart. He had found out quick what kind of man the Governor was, how he operated. Had he been full on Merle, he would have been a head in those tanks. If he had left Woodbury, he would have been killed by one of those hit squads. Merle is not one to accept authority, or he at least is inclined to buck authority, but, then, again, he is the type to feel like he has to repay a debt, being saved and taken in by the Governor. I think he went to the library and read, like he tells Hershel later on, figured his chances and ran the odds and went with the best option at the time.
    2. The reveal of the Governor as an unsavory, unstable character was in keeping with how he, DM, was playing him. So off kilter, it had to be intentional, a way to make the audience feel that friction. It was good that there was no question about him from the start, from the audience perspective, anyway. Andrea, not quite as up on things as the rest of us, lol.
    3. I think by know, nearly a year, it is evident that people are suffering trauma due to the turn. Everybody handles grief and trauma in different ways. Andrea knows no one has come through the end of things unscathed, even if it isn't stated in full detail. It is not realistic to think everyone will just chatter on about the things they excperienced. That was difficult before the dead were walking the earth for some. To be angry about not knowing details of Michonne's story is understandable...maybe Andrea was hurt, felt like she didn't trust her. She was in a close knit group and wanted that again. That is probably why she was so willing to accept the facade of Woodbury.
     
  5. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    No judgement here! He's one of my faves too... I mean, I guess I wouldn't want to know him in real life, but I love him on the show.

    That's so true, and it's something I hadn't thought of! Andrea had already been in a group of good, competent people post-ZA, but Michonne hadn't. That would also make Andrea willing to trust Woodbury more, and Michonne trust it less.
     
    #5 Jetamors, Aug 29, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
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  6. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Now that I think of it further, Michonne was probably traumatized by the downfall of the group she was in with Mike and Terry, where she lost Andre Anthony. Someone said that DG claimed Michonne would have judged Woodbury negatively no matter what, but can you imagine if she and Andrea stumbled upon the prison group instead (pretending for a moment Andrea didn't know them well enough to vouch for them)? I think Michonne only went to the prison because of the baby formula (she can't abandon a child in need, especially in the ZA). I think when we get there, we'll see her try to assume the prison group is just another variation on the Woodbury situation, but then no matter how hard she tries she won't be able to find fault with TF. (The reunion between Rick and Carol is the clincher, I think.) Looking forward to any other subtle signs we can spot along the way.
     
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  7. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I actually enjoyed this episode despite the fact that I didn't get to see Rick and the rest of the group. I liked it. I understood Michonne's suspicions of the Governor from the start. Because I'm someone who usually have a feelings about someone, usually that person persona is that of a good person. I will not be able to explain why I have this feeling. People will make me feel like I'm being stupid for being suspicion of that person but after the whole John Edwards thing, I have learned to just trust my instincts about people. Because in the long run, these people always end-up showing why I had these feelings. But I also learned to keep these feelings to myself until these people show the world who they really are. So I get Michonne's instant suspicions of the Governor but I also get why Andrea wouldn't buy it because Michonne couldn't really explain it. It was just something she felt, like I said, I get that on a personal level.

    1. Are you surprise at how easy Merle follow the Governor ?
    Yes, and no.

    If the Governor was really who he tried to pretend he was to Michonne and Andrea, I would be thinking that Merle is going along with Governor until his plot to take over come in fruition. I wouldn't expect Merle to have enough respect for that type of person to follow them their lead. He would have killed the governor sooner rather. So I would have been surprised to see Merle following someone like that. But because the Governor was not who he pretended to be but instead was a cold-blooded killer who seems on the edge of insanity, I'm not surprise Merle was following him. That type of person is someone who would earn Merle's respect and Merle would have feared enough to see him as worthy leader to follow.

    2. Do you think it was good idea for the writers to show us that the Governor wasn’t as good as he appears?
    I was surprised by it but I didn't think it was a good idea. I understood why the writers were doing it because they wanted to make it clear that Michonne's suspicions of the Governor is correct. That she is someone the audience should trust and believe in because she is a good person who can tell when someone is not. But for story-line purpose I would have preferred a slow revealed to who he really was.

    This makes me feel like the reveal was more to benefit Michonne as a character than anything else, it also makes me think that writers have been kind of protecting the Michonne character from audiences hate from the start.

    3. Do think Andrea had a right to be mad at Michonne for not revealing more information about herself ?

    I don't think she had right to be mad. I understand her wanting to know more about Michonne because people wants to get to know others. But while Michonne didn't tell her about her past, Michonne showed her who she is in the present as person. That should have been enough for Andrea. There was no reason for her to act like just because she tells Michonne about herself, Michonne was obliged to respond in kind. I'll bet you, Michonne didn't ask Andrea about her herself and that Andrea was the one who volunteered the information herself. So Andrea had no right to be angry at Michonne.
     
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  8. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    @Sasha's Living Room

    I didn't know that bottle ep had to be recycled locations. I guess this wouldn't be one then.

    I agree and this was probably their first situation in which they had encounter other people. So Andrea wouldn't know that if Michonne feels like someone is not who they are pretending to be, then she is most likely right.


    I didn't think of the manipulation approached but that is probably one of the reason Merle was willing to follow the Governor. The Governor does act like he really cares about Merle and what is good for him.

    I don't think it would have convinced Andrea, I think that's why Michonne didn't even bothered mentioning them to Andrea. I think Michonne was mostly going on her own instinct about who the Governor really was, so she couldn't properly articulate it since it was mostly base on her feelings/instincts.

    I agree with all of this. It seems like Andrea felt like Michonne owed her an explanation because Andrea told her everything about herself. Michonne probably didn't even ask Andrea about her past but Andrea went ahead and told her. Andrea probably thought they were going to do an exchange of info but Michonne didn't make that deal or agree to it. She probably just sat, listen to Andrea tell her life story and kept it moving


    I loved DG in this scene and I agree.
     
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  9. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    @Jetamors

    I forgot about the Governor finding Merle when he was at his weakest and taking care of him until he was health enough to protect himself. That would make someone like Merle who seems to have never gotten that type of care be more malleable to following the Governor. He probably saw the Governor as type of older brother because of the fact that Governor could have easily killed him but instead saved and protected him.

    Her feelings are valid but I don't like the way she acted like Michonne owed her information about herself because she told Michonne about her past. She acted entitled to knowing Michonne's past, and I hated that.

    This is a great observation and it says something about the characters.

    I think Michonne distrust of people have caused her to not pay attention to what they say but what they do and how they act. So even if everyone in Woodbury told her how great the place is and how great the Governor is, she wouldn't buy it. This tells me that Michonne have met with bad people in her journey. That she has learned that people, no matter how good they are, can't be trusted.

    Andrea on the other hand have been lucky. She, for the most part, have been lucky enough to meet with good people. She was lucky to be part of the group TF when it first started. She was lucky enough to meet a good man like Rick who was willing to come back for them at the mall when he didn't even know who they were. He just knew that they needed help and he helped them. She was lucky enough to meet Herschel who was willing to help them, even when he didn't want to. When she got left behind she was lucky enough to meet Michonne who saved her life and protected her.So Adnrea have been lucky in her meeting of other people, so there was really no reason for her to fear or be suspicious that the Governor wasn't as great as he pretended to be. Therefore, she would totally believe and buy the goods that the Woodbury people and the Governor was selling her because so far in her journey she has met good people like the Governor is pretending to be.



    Thanks for doing this, I appreciate it.
     
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  10. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    Sorry guys are just I am really behind dealing with family illness and working 13 hour days, anyhow here are my responses:


    1. Are you surprise at how easy Merle follow the Governor ? Not at all, and I know this is awful to say, but to me Merle is a dog waiting for a master. He may not be intrinsically evil, but he is the kind that would willing follow someone who is without thought or regret, even more so if he's placed in a position of some authority within said group.

    2. Do you think it was good idea for the writers to show us that the Governor wasn’t as good as he appears. I think even before we were shown that he was NOT one of the good guys, the audience knew there was something off. I actually disliked the Governor story and felt GM really screwed it up, so I'm glad they didn't drag out the "is he good or is he bad" story.
    3. Do think Andrea had a right to be mad at Michonne for not revealing more information about herself ? In her place I would be a little annoyed, but I think the writers dropped the ball here because a few episodes later they show their past conversation about the walkers and Andrea was alerted then to the fact that Michonne knew who they were and that there was some horrific history there. A true friend would have gently tried to coach it out of her over time to assist, not blame her for not opening up about it when some strangers asked about them months later.
     
  11. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Right, Michonne's line "They weren't human when they were alive" (paraphrase) is still coming up, isn't it?
     
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  12. ReeciePiecey

    ReeciePiecey Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    Bumping this thread because I'm re-watching!

    I'm not at all surprised that Merle followed the Governor. Merle would be attracted to someone strong and the Governor was strong, powerful and believed in Merle, valued him and gave him power, something that he probably never got pre ZA. Their relationship is parallel to Rick and Daryl's but Rick is a better guy.

    I think that it was good that they showed that the Guvner was a bad guy but it made it harder to empathize with Andrea but maybe that was the point.

    No I don't think Andrea had a RIGHT to be mad at Michonne for not revealing things. Some people just aren't that open and in retrospect, we know that Michonne is just reserved in general but that hasn't stopped her from developing close relationships with the rest of the family. If Andrea was going to be mad at Michonne she should have been mad when they were on the road for 7-8 months but she waited until she had a different option to decide that she didn't like how Michonne treated her.

    I think this is a case of the writers not being aware of the intersectionality of race and gender that came into play and affected the story they were trying to tell. It not only seemed like Andrea was picking a man over Michonne like a potential romance was more important than a friendship (Gender) but it also reeked of prejudice (ethnicity).

    Michonne and Andrea had been close for 8 months and even though Michonne didn't share her past with Andrea they shared the present, kept each other alive and looked out for each other. But the minute Andrea meets some white people and they seem nice. The stories they are feeding her are more real and valid to her over the life and death experiences she has shared with Michonne over an 8 month period.

    Now I don't think this is the writer's intention, I think they just saw it as picking civilization over the road life but a lot more is conveyed to the viewer on the screen and why it's so important to take intersectionality into account in storytelling and life.
     
  13. Rhona

    Rhona Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    I've been watching the marathon today and my hatred for the saviors has increased. Episode 1 had my bp rising. I thought my feelings were calm but nope. This is going to be a rough fight for the family but I can't wait till Dwight and that pervert dies. Don't even talk to me about Negan.
     
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