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Poll TWD Rewatch: Tell it to the frogs 1x3

Discussion in 'Episodes' started by SevenStars, Jun 15, 2016.

?

What grade would you give episode No Guts 1x2

  1. A

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  2. B

    6 vote(s)
    66.7%
  3. C

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    Hi, guys

    Welcome to another, I hope vibrate discussion. I was happy to see people participating in the episode 2 discussion. It was great to see other people's point of view, especially since I made the mistake of thinking that Lori had taking of her ring, when it was in fact Rick's ring, not hers. That changed my view of the scene and it was all thanks this discussion we are having. That's why I like doing this because it makes me pay more attention to things that I might not have paid attention to before and reading others view on this, sometimes help me have clear view on a scene, like the whole Lori and the ring thing.

    I really hope we can continue this and have more people join in and add their own views.

    It has also come to my attention that some people might be little confuse about how this whole rewatch thing is suppose to work, like the days we are suppose to watch the episodes and how long we have to discuss it. I think that might be my fault because I posted the plan for this group here but didn't post it anywhere else, that was a mistake on my part.

    So to clarify things this is how this whole thing is suppose to work :

    1. We watch two episodes per week. Wednesday and Sunday. We spend the days in between each episode discussing the episodes. So we have would have a 3 days to watch and discuss each episodes.

    2. I will try to post at least 3 questions in each new episode post but that doesn't mean that's the only thing we can discuss. If people have other comments, or questions base on the episode, they are free to post them and add them to the discussions. The questions that I be posting is just like something to break the ice, nothing more. So people don't have to feel obligated to only talk or respond to these questions. This discussion is free for all type of style as long we try to stay within the context of the episodes.

    3. The post for each episodes will be posted in the seasons thread with a poll for each episodes.


    I hope this take away any confusion. Now onto the questions for the episode itself and remember try to response to these questions before you read others responses.

    1, Do you think you would have done what Merle did, cut off his hand himself to save his life ? Would you want to in a world that has just turn hell ?

    2. What do you think of the reunion between Rick and Lori ? How do you think Lori felt about seeing her long-dead husband alive again ?

    3. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).

    4. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .

    Like always, I will be posting my comments and answers later.
     
  2. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Nope. I probably would have kept trying to get the hacksaw (and/or worked on using it to free myself) until I died of exposure.

    Awkward! Their relationship was in what sounded like deep trouble pre-ZA, but then Shane tells her he's dead so she probably ended up looking back at her memories of him (photo albums) with extremely rose-tinted glasses. Then there's her clear enthusiasm about being with Shane before she knew Rick was alive in the last ep. One wonders if she was ever that happy to be with Rick. I remember the first time, I was worried even Carl might have cooled off about seeing his father again, yikes.

    Oh man this one was even harder to watch than the last, with the laundry nonsense and lack of 3-dimensionality among any of them. Rick and Shane's fight over staying or leaving the camp could have been entirely avoided if the women weren't completely incapable of defending themselves.
     
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  3. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Wait question 4 is the same as question 3.
     
  4. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    This episode always wears me out. So much happening...lots of emotion. I clearly remember telling my friend/co-worker,who also watched, that I didn't know if I could keep watching. That deer being eaten, the walker head reanimating, Ed just slapping Carol in her face in front of God and everyone,
    the beating, even though he deserved it, Shane gave Ed, Merle's desperation and panic...and him showing all that anger toward God, you just know there is something working there...you know, other than him being left on the roof, it was hard to watch. Then all of that with Rick, Shane, and Lori...it was almost too much for one episode. Maybe I'm a big whimp, but, good grief!

    1. No. I could not/would not be able to cut off my own hand. The very thought makes me shudder. It would take me a long time to accept that it all was gone. I would keep hoping that somewhere, somehow the society we knew was operating in some way. I would want to not lose my mind. In an upended world, I would want to stay sane.To be able to cope.

    2. It always makes me cry, when Rick sees them. Even though it's been a while, Carl is reminded that his Dad didn't "come back", Lori tries to comfort him about the others being reunited with their loved ones, especially Morales (I forget his first name) telling his family he told them he'd be back. Then he turns and sees his Dad! He just screams " Dad" and runs to him. (happy tears, me and them, lol) Lori stares in disbelief, world upended part 2 (or 3) for her. Husband dying, world collapsing, husband returning from "the dead"... I liked the emotion displayed by them , SWC and AL. (They did have pretty good chemistry.). Chandler Riggs was good, also. Boy, the look Lori gave Shane. When they came together privately/intimately, the return of his wedding band was so sweet. She slipped it on his finger just as she did when they were married. I liked that whole thing. I am such a romantic.

    3. The women...well, what can I say? The time is important, of course, it is early on in the ZA, so things are almost just as they were. When the walker was in the camp, all the men did the man-thing, protectors. The women didn't get anywhere near that walker. The scene when they are washing the clothes, it was so cute to me. Until, Ed came over there bugging them. I really wanted them to beat him up. I hate a bully! I was thinking about Lori's line to Shane, about losing the privilege of telling her what to do. Idk how I feel about that, what to make of it. That is a big indicator of what the writers intend to show us about the male/female dynamic, especially in the world without the structure of society they are all accustomed to. That structure is vital to the safety of women and children, when it vanished, women had to attach to men in some way if they didn't have that already or it was lost in the turn. I don't want to ramble.
    4. Should this be the question about what was noticed/different about/from last viewing? It felt really gruesome to me. The beating of Ed, assho!e though he was, was terrible. I noticed Lori had her wedding album close at hand, reached right up and got it. She looks at the photos of her life, and husband, that she missed. I saw how important being a police officer is/was to Rick. He put on his uniform to return to Atl. I also saw how much he loved being a husband and father. He and Shane were obviously very close as partners, they just went into cop mode when Daryl started acting out. One other thing that I noticed, was the new order of things to come for Team FAM already taking shape. Rick just being a natural leader, followed without question. The four of them, just falling into an order. Rick tells them all how it will be once he gets intel confirmation from Glenn, shutting down/overruling Daryl's input and they do what he thinks is best, follow his lead.) We will see that again. (I love when they take the prison, same four with Maggie added...too badass. I'm getting ahead, sorry.). I have worn myself out with this episode. To me, it was a lot to digest. (And, I must go ahead and say, it introduced Daryl.)
     
  5. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    1. Do you think you would have done what Merle did, cut off his hand himself to save his life ? Would you want to in a world that has just turn hell ?
    I don't think I could have done it. I would have been afraid of bleeding out and then worried about the next moves if I didn't.

    2. What do you think of the reunion between Rick and Lori ? How do you think Lori felt about seeing her long-dead husband alive again ?
    It was sweet. It almost makes you forget about Shane... almost. Lori does try to make amends for the pre-ZA conflicts they had. I know Lori was relieved but also confused and baffled. She mentions to Shane that he said he was dead. So there was an assumption made on Shane's part. It does make you sympathize a bit more for Lori. It's hard because we don't really know why she did what she did pre-ZA to make their marriage troubled.

    3. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).
    I have the same answer from last episode. Basically it is true to life. This is how it would be until the women step up more. They are letting themselves be dictated to. I am bothered by them not wanting to step up more. A man can not be by their side at all times to protect. Even if the men continued to be the primary defense every woman and child should be taught how to defend themselves. I am not upset at it being portrayed as it though because I do not expect society to change overnight. The fact that it is pointed out in dialogue shows the writers are aware and are making a point regarding gender roles.

    4. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)

    Most of my answers aren't so much what I didn't notice as much as things I forgot:

    I noticed more of Carl's adoration for his father. He comforts his mom by saying Rick hasn't died yet after everything so don't worry. He sees Rick as a superhero now. Too cute.

    Shane does care about Rick, he just doesn't know how to process what his role is now. I don't even think Shane is in love with Lori at this point. I think the feelings will grow stronger the more he is aware of his loneliness and then he becomes obsessed out of jealousy. Eve pre-ZA Shane never had what Rick does. I think Shane would like to think he would do it all better than Rick and this becomes his justification for wanting to usurp him, as if Rick doesn't deserve all of this and by sheer force Shane can earn it.

    Sorry, not sorry, I love Daryl and forgot how much I liked his intro. He is loyal to Merle to a fault and I love his rebel spirit.

    I also love that Rick is upfront about what happened. Rick wants to do the right thing despite protests from the group and the possibility of risking his own life and other group members. Maintaining morality is of the utmost importance. Rick is again obviously displaying why he will take command soon. He is methodically assigning roles and coordinating strategy. I find it interesting that Rick is portrayed as a non-religious man yet has this strong moral compass.

    Then you have an immoral Merle's amazing cold open pleading with God only to denounce the higher power later. Michael Rooker is excellent.

     
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  6. Flower1petals

    Flower1petals Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    1. I would have definitely cut off my hand. I am not being eaten alive by some walkers. That is not happening. I would have tried to saw off the pipe or cuffs first though.

    2. Maybe it's just me, but when I saw Carl run for Rick, Lori had this weird look on her face going after Carl. Like she was scared, it wasn't him, or maybe it was just shock. Idk but I rewinded a few times and it bugs me.
    When Rick saw them though, I cried -again. It was such a great moment, when he grabbed Carl. Shane was like - this mother f*cker... lol.
    Knowing that Shane told Lori he was dead, kinda made me feel bad for her (not completely but a bit). Did he just assume he died? Did he go to the hospital and just leave him alive? What happened for him to assume that. The way Lori said - you told me he was dead, makes me think the relationship didn't start til after, but for me it's still too soon and easy.

    3. Wow- the women on this show. All the cooking and cleaning. Jacqui ain't about that life. :lol: She's like wtf. Poor Carol, it's sad to see her apologize to Ed, after he hit her, like it was her fault.

    4. 6 years ago this show started. It's crazy because watching it, I remember it clearly, still noticing a few things I have forgotten about. I did forgot Shane straight up told Lori that Rick died. I thought they both just assumed.

    Omgoodness I can't stand Dale. And it amazes me that he and
    Andrea
    are together in the comics. He definitely is no Hershel. Hershel knew how to give advice or tell someone how to do something without making them feel small. I can't imagine him still being here.

    I don't know how I feel about Daryl. Not really Daryl but Reedus. I don't mind his character. But his acting range is lacking. He can't sell emotional moments for me. Still to this day. It looks like he's struggling to push out tears or something. Idk he just doesn't do it for me.
     
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  7. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    1, Do you think you would have done what Merle did, cut off his hand himself to save his life ? Would you want to in a world that has just turn hell ? I'm a survivor so I'd have cut my hand off, mind you I might have died from exposure since I'd be ow ow owing it and have to pause, shit I might have died from blood loss before I finished the job! LOL

    2. What do you think of the reunion between Rick and Lori ? How do you think Lori felt about seeing her long-dead husband alive again ? I think the reunion was sweet I felt bad for Lori in that moment because I believe her and Shane were just starting to fall in love. Shane had already started seeing himself, Lori and Carl as a family - his conversation with them about catching frogs was so comfortable.

    3. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).
    I have to admit there were little things like Lori's "don't look at me I'm a girl" when Carl looked at her about catching the frogs which was unnecessarily separating the genders, a simple "I know nothing about that stuff" would have sufficed. As an aside the comment by Glen about the explanation about Merle coming from a "white guy" would be better received was also unnecessary. IMO the audience already knew Merle was a "racist redneck" they would have presumed his brother would be of the same ilk so I don't understand FD's need to highlight the racial and gender differences. The "female" bonding moment was funny, but also focused on gender differences - The women missed household appliances, a computer or a sexual device. The men played, slept in, guarded or fixed the vehicles. The writing was not very good IMO.

    I noticed a number of things on this rewatch that I hadn't paid much attention to before:

    • As I noted above Shane had already started seeing Lori and Carl as his. I'm sure he loved them being his best friend and partners' wife and son, but having this prior relationship made it that much easier for him (and Lori) to start operating as a family unit and for them to start falling for each other.
    • I believe Shane truly thought Rick was dead. You see Shane's conflict immediately, he's watching Lori and Rick with this haunted, longing look of someone who has lost his love to his best friend and he doesn't know what to do with it.
    • The look on Shane's face as he stared at the tent that Lori and Rick were in was so intense, I almost thought he was going to barge in and fight him for her. I mean he and Lori had sex hours earlier and he knew that this being her "reunion" with her husband they were having sex, I think it's at that moment he realizes that he's in a place, where Lori is concerned, where he thinks of her as his and he wants her for himself and does not know how to reconcile that because he does love Rick. This frustration manifests itself in his anger which is fuelled by Lori putting the "blame" of her sleeping with him and in essence cheating on her husband on Shane, I believe she does this to appease her own feelings of guilt.
    • Lori keeps telling Rick how "sorry" she is. He believes it's for leaving him at the hospital, but what she is apologizing for us sleeping with Shane.
    • As I noted in my comment for 1.02, when Lori and Rick are in the tent and he's about to make love to her and pauses, her comment that Carl "won't wake up" is telling. I believe she and Shane have had sex in the tent with Carl there. Yes I'm sure people will say, well maybe she knows he's a deep sleeper, however unless she's had noisy nightmares in the tent that doesn't wake Carl up, how does she know he'll sleep through them having sex if she hasn't done it before.
    • The intimacy for me was interesting as it was such a direct contrast to her passion with Shane. The way she put her arms around him and the look on her face, I know there was a lot of guilt there but it seemed almost pedestrian. I believe one person in the DVD commentary stated that they wanted it to reflect that of a long married couple having comfortable, familiar sex.
    • I loved the intro of Daryl. FD loved the Dixons and NR played him very well, so much so that GM thought he was the superstar bad boy and played this up in Season 2 which IMO is when the focused shifted to Daryl the badass, but I'll reflect on this when that Epi discussion happens.
    • MR was phenomenal I believe he was THE breakout star of this episode. I'll post further thoughts as they come.
    NOTE this is the only episode that I am aware of that AL actually did audio commentary and watched the show. I could listen to him all freakin day long! :trash:
     
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  8. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    1, Do you think you would have done what Merle did, cut off his hand himself to save his life ? Would you want to in a world that has just turn hell ?

    I don't think I would have been able to do that. The pain alone I image would have stopped me even if I had attempted that. But at the same time maybe my survival instinct in that desperate time would have made me do it. Because people do desperate things in desperate situation. Right now, I'm saying no but.....

    2. What do you think of the reunion between Rick and Lori ? How do you think Lori felt about seeing her long-dead husband alive again ?

    Lori's guilty was so overwhelming that it overshadow anything else she was feeling to me because I kept wondering if she was saying and doing these things because she really feel them or because she felt guilty about it. It even caused me to wonder if she was really happy Rick was alive. I have to wait till the following episodes to really answer this question.

    Also, it seems like Lori believes that Rick have a pattern of asking her opinion about something, acting like he is going to take her opinion into consideration, when the truth is, he already made up his mind. I say this because when they were discussing Rick going back for Merle. Lori actually asked Rick to clarify on whether he was telling her or asking her. When Rick responded that he was asking her, Lori told him not to go. But later on, when the group was discussing it, Lori basically told the group that Rick was going. And she said it in way that makes it seems like she was resign to the fact that Rick might ask for her opinion about things but he didn't really value it in a way that would make him really take her opinion into consideration. This is the way Lori seems to feel, but I'm not sure if that's the way things really are. So I will keep my eye on that for later episode because I don't remember noticing this.

    3. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).

    It was interesting that Andrea and Jackie question the fact that it seems like women are not back at square one where they take care of all the household chores and such, while the men do nothing.

    That makes me wonder if FD was trying to show how easy it is for men and women to revert back to the old roles in time when there is no security. Therefore, the women are now back to depending on the men for protection and food, as a result they are force back into these roles because that's the only way they can contribute. But later on, would he had shown the women learning to protect themselves and their loves ones ? So they no longer be depended on the men to protect them, therefore, they would start to gaini back the "liberation" they lost when Z.A happened ?

    The acknowledgment by the women characters of the things people are complaining about makes really wonder what was FD long-term plan in regard to the women on the show.

    4. What did you noticed was different from the last time you view this episodes ? ( This is a question I will asked in every episode post)

    I noticed the developing relationship between Glenn and Rick. The trust they continue to have on each other. I really loved it. I didn't notice that before.


    I loved, loved how all the women tried to protect Carol from Ed.

    I hated the way Lori tried to keep Shane away from Carl. Clearly, Shane and Carl had a close relationship outside of what was happening between Lori and Shane.

    Also, it seriously, it took all of them to kill that ONE walker, :lol::lol::lol: and Daryl had to finish the job :sadmaggie::sadmaggie:.
     
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  9. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    I agree with you re Rick not really taking Lori's opinion into account. I also thought she must know the type of person her husband is. He would go out of his way to help someone even at the risk of his own life.
    I thought she wasn't surprised that he would be compelled to go, but hated it nonetheless.

    I also loved the way the women tried to protect Carol.

    MMB was also freaking amazing in this episode!

    I hated the music at the end, something about the electric guitar soundtrack that just didn't fit the ending, much like the music that played in the closing scene of Days Gone By.
     
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  10. Caribbeanqueen11

    Caribbeanqueen11 Supplier of Mints
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    OMG Glen, LOL how could I forget him. I loved, loved seeing the start of his relationship with Rick. It saddened me when Rick tells him "maybe we'll get to steal another one some day" in reference to the red Dodge Charger because I had hoped it would have happened in a later season. It would have been great if they had Glen and Rick steal the black Charger that Rick and Daryl drive in 6.10 as a call back to this... Another missed opportunity and such a waste if Glen is the LV especially as he and Rick had no meaningful development or screentime in S6.
     
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  11. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Yes, I forget to add that the music in this one was similarly off-putting. I think Darabont was trying to be cool and modern but it just seems try too hard, haha. Now the show is just cool because it is and they are badasses, no need to front to try to appeal to a younger demographic.
     
    #11 lovingdead, Jun 16, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
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  12. MrsG

    MrsG Licking Rick clean.
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    Hell yeah! Lori was screwing Shane in that tent. Nobody can tell me different that that's the reason she knew Carl wouldn't wake up. The light sleeper theory does not work, because why would Rick (his freakin' father!) look over at him hesitantly. He knows how the hell his son sleeps. Ugghhh! I hate Lori!!!!!!:rant::rant::rant::chop::bang::lucille2::mwhaha:
     
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  13. chaundee

    chaundee Walker Bait
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    1) Do you think you would have done what Merle did, cut off his hand himself to save his life? Would you want to in a world that has just turn to hell?

    I would have wanted to cut my hand off and do whatever it took to survive. However, I definitely would not be able to cut off one of my limbs. I may have tried, but would have passed out from pain, blood loss or even just the thought of either one, would have done me in.

    2) What do you think of the reunion between Rick and Lori? How do you think Lori felt about seeing her long-dead husband alive again?

    To me Lori looked like every emotion was running through her except happiness when she reunites with her husband. Watching the episode this time I was really concentrating on her reaction and this first thing she does when her and Rick hug is look over his shoulder as Shane. I thought shouldn’t her attention be on her family and the husband she thought was dead for the last 3 months.

    3) What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episode?

    This is the apocalypse and all and there are zombies everywhere you look and I know sometimes being protected can be a good feeling, but so can feeling needed. In my opinion the women were written as weak and vulnerable in this episode. Now, whether they felt less capable than the men I am not sure. Maybe they felt like they needed the men to protected them just to make it to the next day? I am not sure of the reasoning behind it, but I can say that I was not and I am still not a fan of the way the women were written early on.

    Something else I have always wondered that watching this episode brought back is that no matter the excuse or explanation given I could never except Lori sleeping with her husband’s best friend 3 months after he died. It’s hard for me to imagine wanting to sleep with or have a relationship with anyone 3 months after my husband died regardless of who they are. I never understood where she was coming from with that. It makes me wonder if there were feelings there between Lori and Shane before all of this happened.

    p.s. When Daryl is first introduced I immediately recognized him from Blade II (Blade Fan!!) and I remember how excited I was that he was in this show. I liked him then and still like him now just a little less. :(
     
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  14. MrsG

    MrsG Licking Rick clean.
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    Rick was in the coma for 2 weeks. Andy referenced the time span during a panel Q & A. Lori has no excuse. Did I mention I hate Lori? LOL!
     
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  15. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    I think the women are written this way to contrast how they evolve later, primarily Carol. I stand by that because it would be a different show if they all start out as badasses. We see how they all face the ZA as women. Lori wants to hold onto the old ways. Carol is just going through the motions and later becomes a badass. Andrea wants to be a badass but fails because she goes defaults by standing behind a man. Jacqui stands up for herself but can't cope with it all in the end. I don't think that just because women are on a show every woman needs to be a symbol of progress and modernity. Every woman in real life is not that way and they still deserve representation. They aren't written this way right now because that is what TPTB think the women should be, but that is their reality at the moment. Notice how when Michonne shows up she is the ultimate symbol of what a woman in the ZA can do. Then notice what Jessie represents later. This is all for a reason.
     
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  16. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    1, Do you think you would have done what Merle did, cut off his hand himself to save his life ? Would you want to in a world that has just turn hell ?
    I think I would have to exhaust all options first before I decided that. I was surprised Merle wasn't reaching for the tools earlier, but I suppose he did and the thirst and exhaustion momentarily stopped him for awhile. I'd try breaking out of the cuffs first though.

    When I first watched this episode, I wasn't too concerned with how Merle escaped because he didn't return until much later but knowing that he does return, how did he escape? He said in S3 that the Governor and his men found him on the rooftops, but how? Was the helicopter that Rick spotted actually the Governor?

    2. What do you think of the reunion between Rick and Lori ? How do you think Lori felt about seeing her long-dead husband alive again?

    Rick’s reunion with Lori and Carl broke my heart even though it was a happy occasion. I also liked how different his reunion was in comparison to Andrea/Amy or Morales/family. I don't think Carl ever fully believed Rick was dead because he’s a kid who hasn’t firmly grasped the concept yet, so he’s ecstatic and running into Rick’s arms, but Lori? She firmly believed he was dead, and for her it was like looking at a ghost. And she looks briefly at Shane, and her reaction is just harder to pinpoint. I enjoyed this episode better than the last because of these heartfelt moments.

    I will admit that I really did feel sorry for Shane. His earlier scene where he’s bonding with Carl, and it looks like he’s found his place only to lose his footing again. It's also interesting that Shane channels his anger towards Ed. When Rick is huddled with Lori and Carl by the far, Shane gets snippy with Ed, and then when Lori lashes out at him, Shane nearly beats Ed to death.

    3. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers).
    I will go ahead and apologize everyone in advance for sounding like a broken record. As I said before, I don't mind them depicting some of the women falling into traditional roles. I think that's a natural reaction for some, at the same time, I don't think it's the case for all of them. I think they can write for ONE women that is shown just as capable as the guys. That should have been Andrea, but the writers decided to go with a slower approach with her, and then frustratingly left us with no substitute. The writers do have the women acknowledge the different division of labor, so that tells me they are aware, and I don't think they were gonna keep them boxed in their gender roles forever. It doesn't make it any more fun to watch, though.

    4. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? (I will probably ask this question or a variation of it in every post because I noticed in the last discussion that it was hot topic when it comes to comparing the writers) .
    I think this question is suppose to be "what did you notice differently in this episode?" like it has been for the last two threads, so I'll answer that question instead.

    I didn’t mind Glenn saying, “it would be better coming from a white guy”. I honestly think he was looking out for T Dog there especially with the way Merle reacted and nearly beat T Dog to death. I forgot how much Daryl use to talk in the early season. Hell in this one episode, I think he’s spoken more than all of 6B.

    I didn’t think Shane and Lori’s tussle in the woods was their first time, but then why have sex in the woods if they could just wait long enough for Carl to sleep? I just thought her, “he won’t wake up” comment was her trying to reassure Rick.

    I always felt that Lori and Rick were emotionally checked out before Rick was shot, and then when Rick was physically gone, it made it easier for her to move on because she already had in some ways. Not all the way, though because she still held on to his ring. When she asks Rick if he wants his ring back, and he answers her, “of course”, it’s almost like they’re getting married for the second time. They really do want to give this another shot, so I understood why she lashed out at Shane. Obviously the situation was ambiguous and Shane believed Rick died, but when I first saw this scene I thought Shane lied to Lori about it, and I can see why that appears that way to Lori.

    Rick going after Merle, his ability to look after the whole group, will be an ongoing problem for Lori. To her it looks like everyone in the group is on the same level as her and Carl for Rick even though we know that’s not the case.
     
  17. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Yes, Lori wants Rick to think about them first. I think it has always been Rick's nature to think about protecting the whole though, thus his choice of profession and dedication to it. We know his family is first in his heart, but without an immediate danger to them and knowing that he has already survived numerous obstacles thus far, he is confident he will return. His sense of duty takes a priority in that moment. Lori doesn't have the coping mechanisms and survival skills to be like hey do your thing, I can handle this back at home.
    Even Carl is like, don't worry mom, he's got this.
     
  18. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Very astute observation. I agree. The tension of being married to a police officer was probably hard for Lori preZA...and her worst fears were realized, he was shot and "killed" on duty. But, she does not know her guy at all. He is never going to shrink from his duty, not to them, his family, or his sense of duty, still operating at this point, as a police officer. And, he feels responsible. She does kinda, finally, see for that particular instance, anyway, that he will be who he is. She tells Daryl, "He'll show you.". Those two (Rick and Lori) were never really on the same page. I was always pretty understanding, empathic to Lori...I can understand the overwhelming-ness of the situation she was in, quasi-skank behavior, not withstanding, but she didn't understand, fully appreciate, the kind of man Rick is. She didn't know him at all.
     
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  19. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    @Gooey Goobert @lovingdead @Katbird a great point about Lori wanting Rick to think of their family first and everyone else second/distance second. What makes this really interesting is the fact that the first argument we saw between Shane and Lori was about Shane thinking about Carl and Lori first and putting their safety above everyone elses. In that argument, Lori was arguing against that idea. She was willing to risk her own life to warn people against going into the city, and Shane had to remind her that she had Carl to be worry about, that Carl should be her #1 priority, therefore keeping herself safe for Carl should be a priority. But with Rick, Lori seems like she was the one singing a different tune while Shane was singing the same tune.

    I think this is one of the reasons people have hard time getting a handle on who Lori is and what she truly wants.

    Also, I agree that Lori have always worry about Rick risking his life for other people because the first thing Rick told Shane when he got shot the first time was to not tell Lori about it. So the risk in his job played a factor in the problem in their marriage.

    @lovingdead I get what you are saying about it being realistic for the way women are acting but I think the problem I have with it is that it's not really realistic because I don't think every women, especially Andrea, would automatically go back to old roles because the Z.A happened. By saying that they all wouldn't automatically go back to these old roles, I'm not saying they would be like Michonne at this point in the Z.A. I'm saying that they wouldn't all be now only worrying about doing "womanly" chores while the men seems to be just sitting around doing nothing.

    But by writing it that way, seems like the writers are saying that the women being reverted to these roles is a natural order of things. That's it's not a society created structure. That's what off putting about it for me. There should have been a difference between the women, to show that some women go back to the role that society made more familiar and comfortable for them. While other women instinct was to be more proactive and more skill in their own survival. That while they didn't have Michonne's level of skill, which I'm sure not even Michonne had when Z.A started, that didn't mean that they were going to revert back to the role society set-up for them and they fought to so hard against.

    That's what make it so off putting for me, because the women don't need to have the skill of Michonne, to be proactive in their own safety. Because look how many men it took doing that time to kill one walker, and even then Daryl had to come and finish the job. These men weren't skill, the only one who was really skill was Shane/Rick/Daryl. But the writers still had the men, despite their lack of skill, being proactive in their own survival. So I think base on the time and setting of this show, at least ONE women should have been like that. So it's really unrealistic to see all of them just basically reverting back, making it seems like this was natural order of things always, no matter what.

    It will be interesting to see how the men play into that.
     
    #19 SevenStars, Jun 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2016
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  20. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Yes. My daddy wa da cop up unit I was born and my mother made him quit. He had been shot and in two high speed chases very close to my birth. It was a sore spot in the marriage. I understood her point but at the same time she new who she married. He was a cop when they met. They actually met because he was questioning her about her friends murder. Crazy, right? But it's like the same qualities that attracted her to him were seen as negatives on the end.
     
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