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Poll TWD Rewatch: Tell it to the frogs 1x3

Discussion in 'Episodes' started by SevenStars, Jun 15, 2016.

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What grade would you give episode No Guts 1x2

  1. A

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  2. B

    6 vote(s)
    66.7%
  3. C

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  4. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. F

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

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    I guess j have more patient with the female representation. Andrea is trying to be that lone voice of dissent. I think it's just the group dynamics at the moment shaping what we have. This is not TF at the moment. We haven't met Maggie, Michonne, Sasha and Tara. I still think of this happened sure you could meet a group like this at this stage.
     
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  2. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Sorry, but I'd like to point out a straw man here. No one has claimed all of the women should be exactly as capable as the men were. If you look back at my post, I even explicitly stated that I don't mind if there are not as many women who are willing to fight, but it makes no sense for ALL men to be the capable protectors and ALL women to acquiesce to staying dependent on others' protection. It also is rather dull for all women to have the same starting point.

    Even among the limited sample we have here, Andrea at the very least should have been getting practice with her gun from the start (actually as someone else said, her father should have taught her basics like taking off the safety ages ago), especially considering she had a gentler younger sister to protect. Also, all the men were doing was using blunt objects to bludgeon the walker that showed up. Grown men might be able to use more force, but that's not an exact science and in the real world, there are plenty enough women who would want to step up in a situation like this. Willingness to fight from Andrea and just one other woman could have added some interest by bringing out some significant contrasts among the women. Either Jacqui/Jackie (sp?) or Lori could have worked. (Amy and Carol are fine as they are.)

    side note:
    Rick and Shane have their fight over the plan to save Merle in this ep, precisely because they are understaffed with people who can fight. I expect that confrontation would still occur between even with 2 or 3 additional (women) fighters available. Why? Because for Shane it was really about protecting Lori and Carl (and Rick too in the beginning). I think the others figured that out on an unconscious level, and it helped people gravitate toward supporting Rick as their leader even though Shane had a point.

    Great observations here about Rick being about protecting the "whole" from the start. Again, I think that's why people gravitated to him as a leader. They instinctively knew Shane would sacrifice their lives a lot more easily than Rick would.
     
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  3. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    To me, it's not about the level of skill or experience the women have, that's why I'm not comparing them to Michonne/Sasha/Tara because these women level of experience and level of skill was developed over the months and weeks during the Z.A, just like the men. I'm comparing these women right now to the men who seems to have no skill or experience but are still being proactive about their survival and not hiding behind anyone for protection. They are following Rick/Shane as leaders but they are not hiding behind them despite their lack of skill or experience in these type of situations. . So I'm not even comparing them to Rick/Shane/Daryl.

    But you make a great point about it might be just the group dynamics. There might have been some of them whose instinct was to be just as proactive as the men in the group but because one or two strong voices in the women group, like Lori, made it clear that the role of women was to be doing "womanly" things, therefore, those woman for the moment kept their mouth shut and went with the program because they didn't want to cause any trouble within the whole group.

    It's just kind hard to take because they are the only group we are seeing, therefore, we can't be sure whether this is truly just a group dynamic like you pointed out or because the writers intended for us to see it as just women going back to their natural role in society.

    While we are talking about the writing for the women on the show, and I know my next statement will seems like I'm talking out off both sides of my mouth :lol::lol: , I'm not. I'm just going to acknowledge that there is a double standard when it comes to black women and white women.

    Since Jackie was the only black women in that group, I appreciate the fact that the writers didn't go the stereotype route by making the lone black women strong, tough and able to fight like the men, compare to the white women in the group. Because there is a belief out there that somehow white women are more womanly then black women. That black women are just one step below being a men. That even their looks, not only their personality and strength, could be mistake for being a men. Which is one of the reason a lot of people in twd fandom as a hard time seeing Michonne as a love interest or as motherly and caring towards Carl, as Carol was towards Judith.
    So I appreciate that in this instance, the writers didn't go with the program.
     
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  4. SevenStars

    SevenStars Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Also, this is one of the reasons I thought it would be a great idea to do a few flashback of Michonne in early Z.A before she meant up with Andrea. Just to contrast her reaction from the start of Z.A to these women during the early days of Z.A. Just to make clear that not every women natural instinct was to revert back to the roles that society set-up for women.
     
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  5. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    I would have liked a flashback too, but I'm biased because I'd love to see Michonne's early days. We did get a something further down the line when Michonne tells Carl how Andre died, and she states she was on a run while Mike and Terry stayed back with Andre. I don't think it was quite as striking as it could be because at this point, all the women were capable.
     
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  6. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    1.Do you think you would have done what Merle did, cut off his hand himself to save his life ? Would you want to in a world that has just turn hell ? It kinda shows how desperate people have become after the Turn. In this moment, I would have probably done the same if my will to live was greater. I was not a fan of Merle but that took guts. T-Dog was a chump for dropping that key

    2. What do you think of the reunion between Rick and Lori ? How do you think Lori felt about seeing her long-dead husband alive again ? I was thought she felt both relief and shame, especially considering she had slept with Shane a few hours prior. Her sleeping with Rick right after, SMDH

    3. What do you think about how the writers wrote the women in this episodes ? The whole conversation while they clean was funny. I wanted to kill Ed and was glad to see Shane step up although you knew it was in reaction to Rick's return. I also like Amy and Andrea's fishing conversation, but overall, the women were written kinda subpar
     
  7. Jetamors

    Jetamors Babysitting Judith

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    I could actually see myself trying it. Now, whether I would actually be able to do it without passing out or dying? Not so sure about that part ;)
    I actually always had a lot of sympathy for Lori's situation here. The world ended, her husband died, and she ends up with this guy who's, frankly, a lot more compatible with her. And then... it turns out that her husband is alive after all, and you've still got the same marital problems you had before except now it's also the zombie apocalypse and he came back from the dead, so they're even harder to address. And on top of that, who told her he was dead in the first place? The new guy who she had trusted and was maybe falling in love with. I still don't think she did anything wrong here; Shane put her in a really messed-up position.
    I didn't care for it the first time I watched, and I still don't, for the same reasons a lot of other people have gone into.
    That only the guys even tried to kill the deer-eating walker, and that Ed only starts bothering the women when Carol starts laughing.
     
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  8. TexasZAgal

    TexasZAgal Ricktator
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    1. I think if I was in Merle's situation I would probably cut my hand off but in rewatching I wondered how come he did not just cut the chain, it would have accomplished the same result. But the cutting of the hand had more of an impact in the end.

    2. I thought it was really nice, all the others saying they were helped by this random guy and then the slow pan to Rick walking up. Carl had been crying but I have always wondered why the tears from him. But it was nice seeing Lori trying to comfort him. Then Carl slowly turns and sees his father. I cried again at the look on Rick's face. I also noticed all the other people around seeing this reunion because I wonder if they were thinking "but I thought Lori and Shane were a couple".

    3. It seems to me that they were writing the woman as having the traditional roles such as housewives etc, basically needing a man to help them survive. Here it is the end of the world and Carol is ironing clothes.

    4. I realized that I really found Dale to be more annoying this time around. I hated the fact that Rick and Lori had sex with Carl right next to them. I still find Glenn to be so adorable. I felt sorry for Shane.
     
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  9. FineazzAndy

    FineazzAndy Nestled in Rick's Beard

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    It's not just you in regards to Lori's reaction upon seeing Rick. I don't know if that was how they wanted SWC to react, if not....I wasn't feeling it at all from her. The reunion with Rick and Carl was where the emotions really lie.
     
  10. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

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    I got the impression they wanted her to portray fear and guilt most strongly at the sight of her husband, and I thought SWC did an excellent job of it. I suppose though, they also could have intended her to be shocked and outraged that Shane had lied (since that's what she expressed later, and I believe on more than one occasion?). Whatever the primary emotion was however, I can't say it felt to me like it was relief or happiness, even if those were an intermingled part of the mishmash of emotions that must have welled up in her.
     
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