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Discussion/Meta What Does Negan REALLY Think of Rick?

Discussion in '7x01: The Day Will Come When You Won't Be' started by MamaGrimes, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    At the end of this episode, Negan took Daryl hostage and after throwing him into the van made these statements:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    • Does Negan truly believe Rick doesn't have guts as this exchange infers?
    • Does Negan really like Daryl and admire Daryl or is this just Negan breaking down a formidable foe in front of his people and playing mind games to get a warrior leader under his thumb?
    • Would a leader like Negan 'like' a man who punched him in front of 100 of his men after Negan clearly forbade any reaction to the killings?

    Remember the beginning of the episode, immediately following Glenn's death, Rick threatened to kill Negan 'someday' and then Negan dragged Rick into the RV for his joyride into hell?

    Negan was livid. Pissed off that Rick didn't completely break down after the deaths and beg for his mercy. That was NOT COOl in Negan's mind as evidenced by this scene:


    [​IMG]
    He's mockingly quoting Rick here.
    [​IMG]
    And then warning him here.

    And then Negan takes it upon himself, doesn't delegate to a minion or his lieutenant, but takes it upon himself to break.Rick.down.

    I believe that Negan knows Rick is a threat. Rick is a strong leader. A leader that killed many of his men.

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. Lilly965

    Lilly965 Wig Shopping For Michonne
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    It's very simple. It took him threatening his child for him to break.
    [​IMG]

    Negan is scared of Rick and is also jealous of him.

    Negan isn't complex his is simply a bully and bulling come from envy.

    Also we have to remember his 2nd in command and his men watched the whole thing, people talk.
     
  3. Denie39

    Denie39 Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Bottom line, Negan is shook. That's why he went all extra on TF and Rick. He uses people. He don't care about Daryl. He took Daryl because he stepped out of line AND extra insurance to keep Rick in line because a teeny part of him ain't completely settled.
     
  4. vaberella

    vaberella Survivor of Many Disasters

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    Admittedly I didn't see the whole thing. Just the death scenes, with a lot of things cut out. However, I will share my perspective.
    • Does Negan truly believe Rick doesn't have guts as this exchange infers?
    I think that's false. I think that Negan actually does know that Rick has the guts. He knows that Rick is ruthless---him and his limited number of people were able to take out a good half of his army. Rick and his people are very far from the Hilltop people in comparison. Rick can play nice with other groups---but he will terminate you if you pose a threat. He saw Negan as a threat and went after him. There is an element of fear mixed in with acknowledgement of Rick's leadership skills (if not near admiration) and confusion ---since next to Negan, Rick is a little man.
    • Does Negan really like Daryl and admire Daryl or is this just Negan breaking down a formidable foe in front of his people and playing mind games to get a warrior leader under his thumb?
    Daryl or Rick? If it's Daryl---I think for Negan---Daryl is a pest who he knows (probably from interrogation or input from his people) that Daryl is Rick's right hand man. I am thankful he doesn't know about Michonne yet. So in the case of Daryl...He's not so much a formidable foe, but poses a weakness to Rick's capabilities. Remember, it was Daryl who was able to do a bit of termination of his own.

    If it's Rick, I think Negan likes Rick (his gumption, his skill, his "family" ---he only has servants, his son) and grudgingly or maybe not so much grudgingly but sincerely appreciates Rick. I think Negan wants to see how far he can go with Rick? He sees Rick as his equal in some ways. Other men, who may have been a threat, have bowed down to him and become subservient. Negan knows enough, so far, to know that Rick is far from someone weak and mainly because of his family. I think he thought Rick would break at pulling him into the RV to torture him, killing his people in front of him (his family). But Negan is recognizing more and more that Rick's family is what keeps him together, makes him dangerous, and so on. Glenn dies, Abraham dies, Daryl is taken...not much of his family is left. But then based on spoilers Michonne might turn into a brutal enemy for Negan --- Family right there.
    • Would a leader like Negan 'like' a man who punched him in front of 100 of his men after Negan clearly forbade any reaction to the killings?
    Yes, I think he would. You show you had balls. But then he'd tear you apart. There is no doubt in my mind that Daryl knows he's the cause of Glenn's death. This is actually an interesting play. In the comics---people seemed to blame Rick. But the way the story is playing out here...it's Glenn who's going to be blamed by everyone.
     
    MamaGrimes and Marcie69 like this.
  5. QueenofPeace

    QueenofPeace Guts.
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    I was just talking about this with my brother who is GA. My brother is a fan of Daryl and more or less dislikes Rick. So of course he was delighted by Negan's words. I tried to explain to him that Negan was more than likely just saying these things to demean Rick further, because Negan is clearly taken aback by Rick and his perseverance. He knows Rick has guts. He knows what Rick and his people can do. This was all about breaking Rick, and you can tell he was astonished by just how much it took in order to do so. I think some small part of Negan is so threatened by Rick (though he'd never verbalized this) that he lashed out even further throughout 7x1. He really went above and beyond to belittle Rick because he's so threatened by him.

    I really don't think Negan thinks all that much of Daryl, but who knows we will see. I think Negan more or less sees Daryl as a bargaining chip/property that has been "taken" from Rick and TF to further beat them down into submission and compliance.
     
  6. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    This is what I believe as well. I think Negan is jealous and spiteful. I think Negan does think Rick is formidable -- and that's why he pulled every trick in the bullying handbook to make Rick doubt himself.

    Negan wasn't praising Daryl because he actually likes Daryl. Negan was praising Daryl at the end to get under Rick's skin and nothing more.
     
  7. Rhona

    Rhona Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    Simplistically, I think Negan is scared of Rick on a level. It took RIck a Long time to back down. A very long time and I think Negan may respect him for that.
    Don't understand why he wants Daryl just because he punched him. I guess b/c he needs RIck to ensure the group will supply for him as leader, he took Daryl as he is the next supposed brave person in the line up. If things were different, I honestly think Negan would have captured Rick because he does not back down and he needs soldiers like that in his camp.
    If only Negan knew, they are all warriors and are not afraid of him on a certain level. Look at Maggie!! In great pain but gets up and insists the group get ready for war and was going to take her husband, by herself (impossible but so courageous) to bury him at Hilltop. I respect her for that.
    Negan really underestimates the women of the group. He thinks because Michonne begged and pleaded to save Carl's arm/life, that she may just be a simpering girl. And because the rest of the women were crying and in severe shock, they were weak or only protected by men. Ha! If he only knew. So, ya Negan is fundamentally afraid of Rick. I am sure this is the first time he has had such hard core resistance, but little does he know, he should be afraid of them all.
    Sorry for the ramble.
     
  8. Rickscolt

    Rickscolt Eating your protein bar
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    • Does Negan truly believe Rick doesn't have guts as this exchange infers?
    Au contraire! If anything I believe that Negan knows that Rick and his group are unlike any other leader/group he has ever dealt with and Negan went out of his way to break Rick physically, mentally and spiritually.

    • Does Negan really like Daryl and admire Daryl or is this just Negan breaking down a formidable foe in front of his people and playing mind games to get a warrior leader under his tumb?
    Negan is not only a narcissistic murderous psychopath but also a master manipulator. How can a man like Negan, who constantly has to instill fear and submission in hardened men suddenly 'respect' a man like Daryl, who refuses to submit to anyone (even to common sense)? He doesn't, he'd make an example out of anyone who'd dare question his authority. That's why I'm not buying the whole "Daryl praise" bs, it's just another trick he used to have Rick feeling defeated.
    • Would a leader like Negan 'like' a man who punched him in front of 100 of his men after Negan clearly forbade any reaction to the killings?
    Nope.
     
  9. Denie39

    Denie39 Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Agree about the Daryl praise and I am a Daryl fan, lol. Daryl just lashed out emotionally, right or wrong. He wasn't being brave he was being emotional, which I completely understand.

    Honestly, I think what we saw Negan having an outburst/tantrum because things weren't going quite how he expected it at first.
     
  10. QueenTee

    QueenTee Ricktator

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    • Does Negan truly believe Rick doesn't have guts as this exchange infers?
    Negan is just talking shit, to be frank. He's very much aware of how much of a threat Rick is to his reign/order.
    • Does Negan really like Daryl and admire Daryl or is this just Negan breaking down a formidable foe in front of his people and playing mind games to get a warrior leader under his thumb?
    I think Negan likes Daryl in the same way a child likes having a new toy to play with. I think what excites Negan about Daryl is not his bravery but he's stupidity. I think Negan is looking forward to breaking down Daryl enough to pin him against Rick and gain insight on Rick and the group.

    • Would a leader like Negan 'like' a man who punched him in front of 100 of his men after Negan clearly forbade any reaction to the killings?
    [​IMG]
     
    #10 QueenTee, Oct 24, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2016
  11. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    This right there is the tea.
     
  12. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    THIS THIS THIS. To me it was only said to undermine Rick further, not to elevate Daryl (although the fanboys would take it as is). Clearly judging from the spoilers, he is going to make Daryl is bitch, so why would he think that?
     
  13. Ship Verse

    Ship Verse I.D.G.A.F.
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    I don't know if Negan is "scared" of Rick. Like that's not the word I would use. I don't really think Negan is scared of anything than losing his power and with what happened at his compound, to his men, that's never happened to him before so he is being Hella extra as a precaution because Rick has done something no one else has been able to do. I think he knows he is dealing with a different monster here, so right now I don't think it's a matter of being scared, but angry. I do not think he think Rick is gutless, but he will make sure Rick believes it at every second because if anyone were to come at him it would be the dude that struck tactfully in the night. I guess the word I would use for Negan is he is cautious. I don't think for one second he believes that Rick could beat him, but he definitely believes he would be the dude to try.
     
  14. Mousey

    Mousey Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    This is exactly where I think Negan's estimation of Rick is now, too. He knows Rick is formidable because it took such extreme lengths to get him to submit. But he isn't scared, at least not yet. I'm sure that tune will change as soon as TF regroups.
     
  15. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Yes, I think he is more angry than scared. Angry that it's taking this long to break Rick and have the group submit to him.
     
  16. Butler36

    Butler36 What?
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    This reminds me of in the comic when Negan confessed that the reason he harassed Dwight so much and made his life hell was because he felt threatened by him and felt the only way to protect himself was by shoving Dwight's face in the mud.

    That's what I got last night from him. I mean Rick went through losing two close friends, almost dying in a herd and still was able to be like "Screw you." Negan was definitely threatened by him in a way he hasn't been with other groups. Gregory gave up without a fight. Rick didn't.
     
  17. CDCsuzy

    CDCsuzy You will, I will
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    • Does Negan truly believe Rick doesn't have guts as this exchange infers?
    ** Negan definitely thinks Rick has guts or he wouldn't have spent so much time trying to intimidate/belittle him in the RV and at the LV site.**
    • Does Negan really like Daryl and admire Daryl or is this just Negan breaking down a formidable foe in front of his people and playing mind games to get a warrior leader under his thumb?
    ** No, I don't think he really likes Daryl, he just wants to use him as a pawn to manipulate Rick. He knows Daryl is another strong member of Rick's group even though he is injured right now!!**
    • Would a leader like Negan 'like' a man who punched him in front of 100 of his men after Negan clearly forbade any reaction to the killings?
    ** Negan is all about "public appearance, control and power" he can't stand Daryl, but he will use him to get to Rick!**
     
  18. gabbyrock

    gabbyrock Watchtower Sniper

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    Does Negan truly believe Rick doesn't have guts as this exchange infers?

    Negan knows he has Ricks Achilles heel to fuck with and keep him in line, his people - he actually cares about them, he’s not just their leader. He also can just skip the group and go straight to threatening Carl, who was never in danger of death in that clearing. Killing Carl would have the opposite affect Negan was looking for. He thinks Rick has plenty of guts, I think the statement infers his guts don’t matter because all he has to do is fuck with his people for him to comply. (which clearly didint work on Daryl)

    It could also be that he took so long to do the chop, he would have respected him more if he did something like: look at Carl and say “son I love you this is how you live” and calmly go for the chop because it was the only choice to make instead of crying about it and making him count.


    Does Negan really like Daryl and admire Daryl or is this just Negan breaking down a formidable foe in front of his people and playing mind games to get a warrior leader under his thumb?

    He doesn’t admire Daryl he wants to fuck with him. He took Daryl because Rick was unwilling sacrifice any of his people, he needs to punish Daryl for his attack and he proved he was gonna be fun to fuck with. It also forces Rick to comply even when the saviors are not in ASZ threatening them. And guarantees he won’t be planning a revolt when he doesn’t know where Daryl is or how to rescue him.

    He likes Daryl because he a follower and an insecure child all wrapped in the body of a trained tracker, hunter and soldier. Perfect savior material?

    [He followed Merle around, then he followed the group around then he followed the claimers around then he followed the group around again. He’s a so-called “lone wolf” but can’t be truly alone he needs to follow someone/thing. When he was truly on his own after Beth was taken and he thought everyone one else was dead, he sat his ass down and basically gave up.

    Rick might as well keep him on a leash like a police dog. He’s trained to defend certain people (TF the Town) out of familiarity, honor and habit, kill “bad people” and stay by his master’s side. When he gets antsy he is released to go roll around in the dirt and hunt squirrels in the woods. (When they just got to ASZ he was always sitting on that porch just waiting - I imagined him with a leash in his mouth eyes pleading for Rick to take him for a walk.) Trying to make a decision on his own, it back fires he fucks up and/or gets all emo about it. Because, he’s not assertive enough to fight for the right call or take responsibility for it even when he disagrees (at least not recently). He’s a child emotionally who often acts impulsively without thinking of others and clueless of the big picture. He needs to be lead. Negan wants to control his leash.]


    Would a leader like Negan 'like' a man who punched him in front of 100 of his men after Negan clearly forbade any reaction to the killings?

    He likes him as a new plaything. I don’t think he was worried how that looked in front of his men. The attack was childish and hollow like the caricature of a tough guy Daryl thinks he is. Negan was amazed and entertained by his stupidity. That kind of stupid is special and must be played with (“you don’t kill that until you get a taste”). Rick’s prophecy of killing Negan while in shock, with his shaky quiet delivery had more substance and impact to Negan’s pride than Daryl’s punch. Yes Glen was skilled as a result of Daryl’s actions but that was to keep his promise to the group and shut that shit down in case anyone else had inkling to follow suite, its was just for the record , so to speak, even though everyone else got the message Daryl didn't. Killing someone because of what Rick said wouldn’t have had the effect on Rick Negan was looking for.


    I believe that Negan knows Rick is a threat. Rick is a strong leader. A leader that killed many of his men.

    I agree. Negan was impressed before he met them but thought (probably laughing to himself) once they met him and Lucille they would fall I line like everyone else. He put on the extra spectacle to soften them up first though to guarantee the desired effect (just in case). It didn’t turn out the way he planned and that was NOT COOL indeed.

    Every other group:
    Meet the Saviors: show of force
    Kill one – submission- the end
    Threats and intimidation
    If they fight back, wipe them out – the end

    Rick and his group:
    Meet the Saviors: show of force - dead biker boys
    Dwight’s train track attack - fought back
    Six road blocks to Hilltop, this included:
    Increasing show of force
    Watching a stranger hung
    Finding Michonne’s hair
    Being ambushed in the clearing
    The threats and intimidation
    Abraham's Death – this should have been the end
    More threats and intimidation
    Glen’s death
    More threats and intimidation
    The road trip – still didn’t work, so he cleans Ricks hatchet with alcohol for his last play
    Coerce him to maim his son or watch EVERYBODY die, including his kid

    When Negan was staring at him after Ricks murder prophesy, he was astonished and then annoyed (I’m sure he was thinking “what the fuck is up with this dude!!”). Rick knew they were screwed, he looked panicked he couldn’t fix it, he looked terrified his family was going to die, he looked terrified his people were going to die; but even after all that his eyes still said “You don’t get to live”. It took threatening to murder his son and everyone else if he didn’t chop off his arm, for Negan to get the response he wanted, which to me was a combination of:
    The pain of knowing Carl was shot twice already, lost an eye - thinks he has a “messed up face” - and now he has to loose and arm. He’s doing all he can to protect him but is losing him piece by piece. And, “Dude what the fuck! Are you really this fucking crazy?”
     
  19. slade3

    slade3 The New Mrs. Grimes
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    In another thread yesterday I mentioned that my initial dislike of JDM's performance has changed after watching his scenes with Rick and Carl again. I think JDM managed to convey that Negan is threatened and scared of both Rick and Carl. Carl, especially. His facial expression when Carl said the belt being wrapped around his arm didn't hurt made Negan raise his eyebrows and say "It's supposed to." (I also wondered if that was a Chandler ad-lib which would be so cool!)

    I also had a strong since that Negan envied Rick for being surrounded by a group of loyal people he didn't have to bully. Negan knows no one would follow him if he didn't scare them. His team is there because they fear for their lives. Rick's team is there because they respect and love him.

    I think Negan is curious. Carl fascinates him and I think he respects Rick in a way that he could never admit.