1. Welcome to Tell It to the Dead. We're a discussion forum for AMC's The Walking Dead. Please don't hesitate to ping staff with any questions or concerns. Have fun and watch out for walkers!
    Dismiss Notice

Discussion/Meta What in the heck did the Governor want exactly?

Discussion in 'Villains (and those who play them)' started by Doctor Grimes, Mar 2, 2016.

Tags:
  1. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,565
    Likes Received:
    49,691
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    Okay, this has been bugging me for a while.

    What in the hell did the Governor want?
    Like seriously. What was his endgame? What I am referencing is his intense antagonism towards Rick and his group.

    In "Arrow on the Doorpost", Rick makes a completely sane and normal offer that Woodbury would take east of the River, and the prison would take the west. They wouldn't have to interact, see each other, nada. They could just live in their own little bubbles.

    At this point, there wasn't a squabble over resources, and there was only one minor altercation because the Governor's people kidnapped Maggie and Glenn (for what purpose? again I don't know).

    ... but the Governor shoots down Rick's offer and says he wants his "surrender." Like... why? What good would it do? What would surrender entail? Did that mean "I want the people at the prison to move to Woodbury"? In which case, that's dumb. How could he ever trust them? Did he want to execute Rick and all his people for their "transgressions"? In which case why bother negotiating at all? Why not just go to war? Did it mean the prison just falling in line behind Woodbury? In which case, what would that even mean? It sounds like they would just stop fighting and live in their own little bubbles which is exactly what Rick offered.

    So what did the Governor want? I get the man wasn't all there, and he had some massive power trip issues, but this always seemed poorly written to me.

    With Negan and the Saviors, we know exactly what they want: everything. They want resources of all kinds. Food, weapons, materials. And they want to subjugate communities into terror to be their little hunter/gatherers.

    With the Governor? I got no sense he wanted anything in particular except power. But, in this case, surrender wasn't really going to work since he was never going to be able to trust Rick and his people. The best solution truthfully was "you take that side, we'll take this side," and leave it be. Or, you know, kill 'em all, which ultimately the Governor decided to do.
     
    Delightfully Thomi likes this.
  2. WalkerVoodoo

    WalkerVoodoo Michonne's Shadow
    Patron

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    4,517
    Walker Pets:
    113
    The governor was crazy so most of what he did made little sense.

    By surrender I took it to mean he wanted them to evacuate the prison immediately. There was major bad blood between the groups especially with the deaths of Merle and Andrea so living side by side was never going to work.

    I was also under the impression that the Govenor intended to keep Michonne with him, something TF would only allow if they were completely helpless and surrendered.

    Eta: I thought you were talking about Too Far Gone for some reason.
     
    #2 WalkerVoodoo, Mar 2, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
    Doctor Grimes likes this.
  3. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
    Staff Member Moderator Patron

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,427
    Likes Received:
    21,259
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Going high when they go low
    Custom Banner
    All excellent questions Doc. I have no answers but I'll give you my ideas.

    I think the Governor was all about ruling his area. He wanted power and he wanted to lord it over everyone around. My thought is Merle put two and two together when he saw Glenn and Maggie and realized that Rick, a true threat to the Governor's claim to power, was in the area. Completely forgetting his loyalty to his brother (due to dramatic license), Merle kidnapped the couple and set the events in motion.

    The Governor learned about Rick through Merle and Andrea and realized that the prison group could be a threat to his sweet set up. Who knows? Maybe his soldiers would choose to follow Rick instead and he'd be stuck with the seniors, kids and housewives. It's clear that he was suffering from at least two different kinds of mental illness, paranoia being one of them.

    Now mind you, my ideas all come from my head and NOT from the writing. Cuz...yeah...they skipped that part.
     
  4. MidnightRose76

    MidnightRose76 Slopping Pigs

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    460
    Walker Pets:
    63
    Location:
    South Carolina
    I think, for the most part, it was about Michonne. I think he wanted Michonne to reside in Woodbury, at first. However, Michonne noticed quickly that the Governor was a lying, psychotic screwball and she took off.

    The only reason Glenn and Maggie were taken is because Merle was angry that they wouldn't take him to Daryl, and he used their kidnapping as a substitute for not bringing back proof of murdering Michonne.

    When they were attacked, and Michonne killed Penny and took his eye, it became about revenge. He still wanted Michonne dead, even if it meant killing everyone.

    It's not real clear what his issue with anyone other than Michonne was. Perhaps a power struggle. And he eventually, in S4, wanted the prison.
     
  5. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,565
    Likes Received:
    49,691
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    @WalkerVoodoo and @MamaGrimes you guys make some good points. It could very well have been as simple as the Governor wanted them to bugger off to another time zone.

    It could also just be that the Governor wanted everything they had a la the Saviors. He wanted their weapons, food rations, etc. to make them weak and thus pliable. Maybe he just phrased it worse than Negan and his Saviors did.
     
    FLNatural and MamaGrimes like this.
  6. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
    Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,565
    Likes Received:
    49,691
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Bottom of the trash can
    Custom Banner
    That's what I thought as well. It was always just about Michonne. Because it's after Rick shoots down the Governor's stupid "surrender" option that the Gov says, "Well, just give me Michonne then." Maybe surrender was his opening shot to make giving up one person like a sweeter deal. In which case, damn, the Governor had quite a vendetta against Rick's current squeeze.

    Season four definitely established the Governor's reasons for wanting the prison much more clearly. He needed to find a safe home for his group, and the prison was an incredibly sweet setup. Of course, if he couldn't have it, he was going to blow it all to Hell. (That's what I never got about the tank; they wanted the prison as a safe haven -- why risk tearing it up?)
     
  7. MidnightRose76

    MidnightRose76 Slopping Pigs

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    460
    Walker Pets:
    63
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Yes. I think his plan was just to use the tank as a scare tactic. I guess he thought if they saw he had an army and a tank, they would willingly surrender.
     
    FLNatural and Doctor Grimes like this.
  8. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
    Staff Member Moderator Patron

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,427
    Likes Received:
    21,259
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Going high when they go low
    Custom Banner
    Totally forgot about Gleggie's refusal to take him to Daryl. That makes sense then. Merle being self serving to cover his ass and get some revenge in the process. Little did he know he'd end up dead a week or so later.
     
  9. Ship Verse

    Ship Verse Good Riddance 2016. 2017, Let's talk.
    Patron

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    8,394
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    The Salt Mines
    Custom Banner
    I think you all kind of answered the question in your own way so I am just going to add my two cents...

    The Governor wants control and supreme power. He is dictatorial, a totalitarian, incapable of "sharing".
    It starts when he kills the military guy. He was threatened by anyone who seemed like they would steer his people away from him. When he noticed Michonne wasn't buying his bullshit he sent Merle to kill her. He does not want anything out there that can question or threaten his rule. Rick made him and his town look weak when they saved Glenn and Maggie. Michonne killed Penny. He was on a revenge trip to get Michonne and torture her, but as far as Rick went he wanted to eradicate him. It was clear that he was a threat to his autonomy, just knowing he was there was something he wanted to put an end to. By any means. He was off his rocker. Shooting down his people, then the second time around, it was purely spite. He hid behind "needing a place to keep his people safe" but really it was revenge on Rick, he lost everything, now you will too. Evidence by killing Hershel, running the gates over with the tank, and just beating the crap out of Rick. He ODed on Hershel's head for no reason. There was no saving grace about the Governor, he got off on power and he died because of it.
     
  10. Delightfully Thomi

    Delightfully Thomi Nestled in Rick's Beard
    Patron

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    1,377
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Yes @Doctor Grimes that was the point, most of his problem with TF was about Michonne, although he was also jealous of Rick too but first I wanna talk about his Michonne obsession! He hated her with good reason!
    -First he was very intrigued by the fact that she just plain did not like him. His defense mechanism is charisma and she wasn't falling for it.
    -In a matter of 24 hours she saw right through his bull crap persona and read him like a book and he tried to work around it offering her a chance to be one of his goons so that he could keep an eye (pun intended) on her and try to hold on to his disguise! Michonne wasn't having that either!
    -Those two were like water and oil they did not mix! Michonne was hell bent on unmasking him (because she's stubborn as hell) and show Andrea who he really was! That's why she went back to Woodbury to unmask and then kill him! The Governor was not gonna be outed without a fight!
    -She ended up killing his zombie daughter (Penny) and stabbing him in the eye while fighting for her life! and that just made things worse!
    -Now as far as Team Family and the prison he wanted there stuff and the prison. So basically he wanted them dead. He also at that point wanted to rape, torture and murder Michonne until his hearts desire!
    The bigger question for me was "What did Andrea think would happen?" She saw the fish tanks with Walker heads in them. She knew what The Governor did too Maggie and Glenn. Yet she still told Phillip all about Rick's marriage and Judith's paternity my guess to use against Rick (because that's what he did) and if Michonne had told her anything about her old life Andrea would have told Phillip about that too! So what did she want to accomplish?
     
    #10 Delightfully Thomi, Mar 2, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
  11. CrownRoyale

    CrownRoyale Slopping Pigs

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    555
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Location:
    The deep blue
    We are on the same page here. The Governor definitely had an obsession with Michonne, for lack of a better word, but I don't think she was the reason that he wanted to take the prison. I agree that TG wanting to kill the people at the prison had everything to do with not wanting anyone in his backyard that would pose a threat to his reign over Woodbury. This is also the reason that he killed the soldiers, because he didn't want anyone with a strong character to be able to stage a coup, so to speak, against him. Plus this exchange with Merle show's that TG's goal was always to kill the people at the prison, even before the group entered Woodbury to rescue Gleggie:

    Guvnah: The prison's the perfect place to hole up. What once kept prisoners in now keeps biters out. And that's smart.
    Merle: You thinking of taking it over, moving Woodbury there?
    G: People love it here because it feels like what was. Move them to damp cells surrounded by barbed wire? No. We gotta take out the group that's living there. Let the biters move back in. No one'll be the wiser.
    M: The problem is my brother's with them.
    G: Well, you'll talk to him. Make him our inside man. He'll get us in there. We'll wave the white flag like we did with the National Guard.
    M: Nothing happens to Daryl.
    G: Of course not.
    M: What about Glenn and the girl?
    G: Well, the longer they're here, the more chance Andrea will find out. Take them to the Screamer Pits.

    So yes the Governor didn't want anyone questioning him or threatening to take over. I believe this is always the reason that he kills Andrea and Milton.
     
    box5angel, FLNatural, Katbird and 2 others like this.
  12. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes Received:
    4,203
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Unlike the prison arc in the comic books, I was not that much a fan of the TV show version. Granted, I was grateful they did not have the Governor rape Michonne, but I could not understand what were his motivations behind attacking the prison. Season 4 Governor had a better reason, imo, since his group were living out in the open, therefore more susceptible to dangers, so wanting the prison made sense at that point
     
    Delightfully Thomi likes this.
  13. Sasha's Living Room

    Sasha's Living Room Survivor of Many Disasters

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    583
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Location:
    somewhere with excessive air conditioning
    The Governor was a paranoid control freak. Remember when Andrea first saw his backyard, she even made a joke about his absurdly well-tended garden. imo the Governor had completely different beefs with Rick and Michonne. People have covered both of those separate beefs above, but I want to stress that he could have made Woodbury stronger by bringing in the National Guard unit, but instead he wiped them out same as he tried to do to TF. I think it's very clear that's just how he's rolled for a very long time.

    I'd also like to emphasize the importance of the fact he doesn't act the least bit hurt (unless you count a BS show for the Woodbury people before making Daryl and Merle fight in front of them) when he learns Merle, Andrea, or Milton had betrayed him. He just moves from one way of controlling them to the next. Using "biters" in their ZA-style cage fights was also a control thing (the philosophy of which was rightly questioned by Andrea). This is also the reason he shoots down his mutinous soldiers after they fled the prison. Personally I suspect that in the midst of the adrenaline-fuelled haze his mind was in at that moment was not only the obvious anger that they defied him but also a distinct fear of lost face once those soldiers get back to Woodbury and tell the rest of the people there what happened.

    The only action of his that didn't sit right with me in terms of his character's consistency was the brief flirtation he had with letting Andrea be the leader. (Though maybe he was realizing that his charisma and charm were reaching their limit, and Andrea could be his puppet figurehead, yet she proved too difficult a puppet to control in the end.) He grew increasingly erratic toward the end, even burning down Woodbury itself. But in the mind of a control freak like him, if he couldn't control your existence then you didn't deserve to live.
     
    JBody likes this.
  14. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    12,106
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    He was simply a MEGALOMANIAC. I hated him as a villain, plus, Andrea and Milton were cringe worthy. TF and Merle were amazing during this arc ad we got the Michonne/Richonne intro, but at the end of the day TG was so corny and cartoon villain to me. I was like is he trying to compete with Lex Luthor or something? I much preferred Gareth as a villain.
     
  15. Jessica

    Jessica Slopping Pigs
    Patron

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2016
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    599
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Custom Banner
    3b Governor, to me, was a man fueled by a combination of revenge, grief, and the perpetual intense throbbing of an infected and punctured eye that made him very erratic and irrational.
    Pre-4a, when he's a pathetic hobo, he all but wanted to die. He had no purpose, nothing to live for, other than roaming around waiting to collapse.. til he saw Meghan. A second chance , to make up for losing Penny. I kind of compare TG's feelings toward Lilly, to Rick's feelings towards Jessie. Rick saw Lori in Jessie, and TG saw his dead wife and daughter in Lilly and Meghan.
    When he couldn't even keep THEM safe, his very tenuous grip on sanity slipped back to 3b levels, and his final act was a suicidal blaze of glory to take everything down with him.
     
    lovingdead likes this.
  16. Lyra_Nation

    Lyra_Nation Young, scrappy, and hungry
    Patron

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    822
    Likes Received:
    3,572
    Walker Pets:
    93
    Location:
    With my Richonne Fam
    I think The Governor always had in mind to kill Rick's group. Even if they would have surrendered, he would have killed them because like you said - he couldn't trust them. With The Governor, it was get on his side or die. Andrea got on his side and she lived (until the end). He tried to get Michonne on his side, but he couldn't accomplish it so he sent people to kill her. Imo, no survivors he ran across who didn't immediately come to his side or who he didn't think he could trust to live by his rules - he was going to wipe them out. It was as simple as that.
     
    lovingdead likes this.
  17. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    12,106
    Walker Pets:
    113
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Excellent analysis.