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What would've happened if Rick had killed Negan in the RV?

Discussion in '7x01: The Day Will Come When You Won't Be' started by Doctor Grimes, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    So, I saw a poster elsewhere criticizing Rick and calling his actions "OOC" for not killing Negan in the RV because Rick (according to them) had the "opportunity." It was stupid, apparently, for him not to take it.

    Now, I obviously disagree with this take as I don't believe Rick had the opportunity (Rick tried to swing at Negan, and he was shut down because Negan had a machine gun). Rick was then cast into a sea of walkers. I suppose this person meant at any of the points after Rick had gotten the ax back (from the RV roof), but he was forced to give it to Negan when he got inside.

    Regardless, even if Rick had the opportunity, he shouldn't have killed Negan. Because of what Negan said, "I'll be back. Maybe Rick will be with me. If not, well, we can just turn these people inside out."

    If only Rick had come back (sans Negan), the Saviors would've turned the rest of the group into paste. I think some believe without Negan there, the Saviors would be "free" as they're led by fear (and once the head of the serpent is gone, the rest of the body goes haywire), but I don't think it would've be instantaneous. I think if Negan had died, Simon would've stepped into the power vacuum immediately -- and had Rick and all his people executed. I do think the Saviors would've eventually spiraled out of control with Negan's influence, but not within a few minutes.

    So, what do you think? Do you think Rick could've killed Negan if he tried hard enough? Do you think Rick and his group would've been let go if he had?
     
  2. Lolololove3

    Lolololove3 Den Mother
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    They'd all be dead. /End show.

    Only a dumbass would've killed Negan. Maybe dumbass Daryl but not Rick.
     
  3. Gooey Goobert

    Gooey Goobert Relocating to The Kingdom
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    Well, he tried, and it didn't work out so well. Can't imagine what else he could have done in that moment. Though to be honest, even after all the pain and torture, it probably would have been worse for him to kill Negan right then and there. One man against the army that is holding his family as hostage? Not good odds.
     
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  4. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    There is not even a question.

    When you are an only parent in the middle of a ZA you don't take stupid risks. My whole thinking about Rick asking Michonne to help him with Carl in "After* was because he knew that he almost left Carl all alone... that must have been terrifying to Rick. He was basically asking if anything ever happened to him would she look after Carl.

    They even drove in the point home with Carl walking about alone and in the end Carl deciding he'd rather die with his father than to be alone in the ZA.

    So no he wouldn't have left Carl and Judith alone in the ZA.
     
    #4 Barbarossa-TWD, Oct 27, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  5. Silas

    Silas Beloved Side Piece
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    There are tons of Saviors. A shit ton. What exactly did this person think was gonna happen when Rick came back with no Negan and Rick and what was left of TF had to defend themselves with no weapons except Rick's axe? Like you already said, worst idea ever. To think all the Saviors would be like "yay we're free" is dumb as hell. Maybe some are there against their will, maybe some want Negan dead, but there are others, plenty others I'm sure, that realize Negan is their meal ticket. Killing Negan in that moment would actually be dumber than what Daryl did. Instead of having one raging asshole with a bat set on revenge, you'd unleash the fury of hundreds of men. I can't even.
     
  6. MamaGrimes

    MamaGrimes 100% Certified Shipper Trash
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    If Rick had killed Negan in the RV, I'd have my Sundays back because there would be no more show as everyone would be dead.
     
  7. balladsinthebluegrass

    balladsinthebluegrass Hold to things that are bright.
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    Completely agree. Rick's people back in the clearing were vastly outnumbered. Rick had to think of their safety. Killing Negan in that moment would not have kept his people safe, and since we all know the safety of his family is Rick's highest priority, it is no surprise that he acted as he did.
     
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  8. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I am with you guys. I am just astounded sometimes at what people post to try and smear Rick and elevate Daryl. It boggles my mind. Whether someone believes Daryl is to blame or not, trying to point the finger at Rick for doing the smart thing is... well... I don't even know.
     
  9. Deep_Ricking

    Deep_Ricking I like it raw.
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    He did that again in Crossed. If anything happened to him, he wanted Michonne to take care of Judith and Carl. He didn't want both of them going to Atlanta.
     
  10. LavenderNight

    LavenderNight Awaiting Job from Deanna
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    I guess some people were not paying attention: Queen Simon was still there.
    When Negan is not around, Simon takes the lead.
    If he saw Rick coming back with a dead Negan, he would order the saviors to kill them all.
     
  11. Butler36

    Butler36 What?
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    I think it is like in the comic when Negan dared Rick to kill him because he knew that would make him a maytr This in no ordinary boss and subordinate relationship. People think of Negan as their apocalypse god. He made order out of disorder. He keeps them safe and fed. Simon is a true believer and if Negan didn't come back he would have wiped all of them off the face of the earth and then burned ASZ to the ground. Rick figured that out and knew it.

    This is exactly why Negan doesn't want to kill Rick and didn't kill the leader of the library group until last. Leaders who are killed in these circumstances are elevated in their deaths into something else. Negan may be sadistic but he knows psychology and he knows how people work. Rick knows it too.
     
  12. Barbarossa-TWD

    Barbarossa-TWD Ricktator

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    I think this is also why Negan is in "over kill mode". Negan IMO is tipping his hand a bit here with all of the theatrics ... to me it shows he is afraid of losing control and losing face in front of his people.

    I mean he took out all of the LIBRARIANS. If the Librarians were tempted to fight Negan what must his people think about Negan's rule. He's slipping. Rick is important for his rule. The Librarians has one building with an iron rod fence. Rick has a huge community. Controlling Rick would raise Negan's status in the eyes of his men. We have already seen with Dwight and the men who were chasing him that commitment to Negan is not that deep.

    All it takes is just one rogue community to get the other communities thinking that they can rebel too. If they kill one person per community then I estimate that Negan has at least 20 communities under his thumb.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Canuckgirl

    Canuckgirl Ricktator

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    I would love to see these keyboard warriors deal with that situation. You know they would punk out reeeeeeaaaaaaal fast
     
  14. MadameCassie

    MadameCassie Wearing a Necklace of Ears

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    Good points!
     
  15. Denie39

    Denie39 Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Everyone pretty much said the reasonable answer: NOPE.

    Now, Rick did try. Maybe he shouldn't even have done that. But Negan baited him. Rick knew not to try again.

    I've said this before, as have others, that Negan was being so extra because he sensed TF's defiance and hard-to-submit DNA and he needed to shut it down immediately, with no loose ends. That's why he is holding Daryl hostage, to control Rick because deep down, he knows a man like Rick will get tired of his shit and might start hatching something when all the drama simmers down (which is pretty much what will happen anyway, haha).

    I also agree that Negan's grasp on power is beginning to slip at this point. There is discontent in the ranks, I'm sure. And if Negan was smart, he'd know that the bigger an entity gets, the more complex it becomes, and sustainability becomes an issue. The more communities get under his thumb, he may think this is just more loot for him. But it just more hassle, trying to keep people in line and eventually it will become impossible to keep that many people in line and they will rebel.
     
  16. FoxC

    FoxC Nestled in Rick's Beard
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    Adding in to the sentiment of the everyone else, had Rick killed Negan, Simon and the rest of the them would of killed Team Family in half a heartbeat. I feel like Negan's men are like wild dogs and Negan keeps them in line. Without Negan, there would be chaos and I think the saviors would go a destroy the ASZ and everyone in it. So yeah, everyone on Rick's side would of died. Goodbye TWD. Where in the past there was wiggle room to debate "there was another way to handle......" in their previous storylines, I feel there is no wiggle room here. There was no other way. That adds to the pain of Rick the fallen leader. The only choice is to submit to Negan. I know some people felt Negan was over the top and I think it was intentional for him to be that way. Rick's group had taken out so many of his men that I am sure there was doubt in Negan's ranks about his grasp on power. So Negan wanted to remove any doubt and he wanted to do that in a big memorable way.
     
  17. Riko813

    Riko813 Eating 112 oz. of Pudding
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    I think if Rick had come back without Negan, the whole group would have been killed. Simon would have stepped in the leadership role and had TF executed. Simon in my opinion isn't doing Negan's bidding because he is afraid of Negan. I actually think he likes Negan and is happy to follow him anywhere. I think that a lot of Negan's followers enjoy his brutal way of life. They like terrorizing, brutalizing, and taking things from others. They are not ones for growing gardens so this is the life for them. They wouldn't have any qualms about killing all of TF in revenge for killing their supreme leader. In addition, if Rick tried to kill Negan and failed and had wounded Negan in some way, Negan would have killed another member or two of TF. Finally team family is not at full strength mentally, emotionally, or physically, so they could not have made a successful blaze of glory escape. Daryl is weakened, Maggie is sick, Eugene is beat up, Sasha and Rosita are emotionally beat down because of Abe's death and they don't have weapons. They would not be able to launch a successful escape.
     
  18. Doctor Grimes

    Doctor Grimes Not Your Governor
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    I agree. I think Simon is Negan's "ride or die." Hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if Simon is in love with him.
     
  19. Kordas

    Kordas Den Mother
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    But Rick did try to kill him.
     
  20. Armte

    Armte Schadenfreude is my Aesthetic
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    Really......is this a serious question. :dale: So Rick was going to roll back up at the clearing with his hatchet and Negan's body and be like "hand over my people!" and the saviors were going to be like "okay" :denise:

    The idiotic thought processes being used to deflect blame off of where it really belongs :diedaryl::diedaryl::diedaryl: is amazing.

    Team family would ALL be dead! Did you see all those Saviors with guns to their heads :dale2:
    [​IMG]