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When Did Shane Decide to Kill Rick?

Discussion in 'Don't Dead, Open Inside' started by Armte, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    @Katbird I respect your empathy and I like to be a forgiving person, truly but I can't forgive Shane. I can have mercy for his soul but can't justify who he was to Rick in the end. I can empathize to an extent and respect what he and Rick meant to each other. But at the end of the day he was out for Rick's blood and violated his trust. This wasn't just an oops, I slept with your wife scenario. This was an I want to erase you and replace your entire existence scenario.

    The original question posed in this thread was when did Shane decide to kill Rick. Honestly it was pretty early on. He clocked Rick through a scope before the pregnancy was revealed and before any animosity formed. Shane was selfish and bloodlusting long before anything really happened.

    Rick is a good man and is choosing to remember and replay it the way he can cope with in his head. Notice he still couldn't say that he killed Shane to Michonne. He didn't say how Shane wanted him dead and questioned his ability to be the man in his own family. He didn't mention how he setup Otis. Rick doesn't go there again because if he goes there he would hate Shane. He has to protect Judith so he can't go there and feel any hate for that man but somewhere Rick knows Shane was his arch nemesis.

    Even worse somehow Rick feels it was his fault.
     
    #101 lovingdead, Jan 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  2. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Do you remember what the context/scenario was?
     
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  3. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Ooo, that conversation with Lori. He (Shane) was easing down, was willing to accept what Rick told him in *18 Miles Out*, even accepted Rick turning to Daryl for help/support--doing exactly what he told/described to Michonne he had to do about Judith not being "his"...until that little talk with Lori. Ughh...it pisses me the @&?# off!
     
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  4. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    I like Shane too...but he had to go. And Lori was really bad in turnine them against each other. It wasn't all her fault but she set thangs in motion. In Triggerfinger when she asked Rick to kill Shane. I am side eyeing the hell outta her right now.
     
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  5. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    I am still trying to find the episode.
     
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  6. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    The episode after he (Shane) got Lori to come back to the farm after she went to get Rick and wrecked the car. That is an intense scene...and,yeah, Shane lied to Lori, again. He is sooo bad, I know. But, somebody, just please help him!
     
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  7. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    Yes that convo. You are good. Better Angels is the episode.

    *Correction this is not the episode, but I will find it.
     
    #107 Ms.J.Richonne, Jan 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
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  8. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    Rick is a good man. No way I would have been able to forgive them so easily.
     
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  9. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Must be 2.11 (?)...there are only 13 episodes in S2...it was just before the showdown between them.
     
  10. myislandsugar

    myislandsugar Hiding in Dale's RV

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    "3- Shane knew full-well Rick was alive when he left him in the hospital, but he left him because he knew he and Rick wouldn't make it out of there together (not with Rick in that condition)" -Doctor Grimes quote (I'm sorry, I'm still trying to figure out how to use this site...lol).

    So, I agree with #3, Doctor Grimes. :) To me, Shane is the classic frenemy - he's your "friend", but your great(est) enemy as well.

    BOTTOM LINE (imo) ... Shane saw a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity - and chose Lori and Carl OVER *possibly* saving Rick.

    Shane was always about ...oh, just leave this or that person behind, threatening, even killing to get others out of his way, all I care about is Lori and Carl, etc, etc. It's not really a far stretch to think he'd leave Rick behind to die - I mean, he pointed a rifle at Rick, even killed a guy to lure and attempt to kill Rick - so, even if Shane loved Rick, this was his one chance, under those circumstances, to get likely what he's always wanted (Lori and Carl) by leaving Rick behind to die in the hospital. I do believe Shane really thought Rick was dying or would die - but Shane knew Rick wasn't dead.

    Also, IMO, Shane only barricaded the door to give Rick a chance (from soldiers, walkers, etc.) if he does possibly wake up; but, by then, Shane would be long-gone with Rick's family...and realistically, what were the chances that Rick would wake up and/or recover enough to survive, much less ever find his wife and son after the world fell apart? Shane made his bedside decision based on that. His cry and hug was, theoretically .... "I'll take over from here, buddy...sorry this happened to you. I loved you."

    This is the same Shane that Killed Otis "for survival...one of us wasn't gonna make it - it had to be him." Same ideology. Shane was always out for what Shane could get, from anyone...from Lori, from Carl ... from Rick.
     
    #110 myislandsugar, Jan 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  11. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    Maybe I'm harsh but I didn't like Shane as a person. He was kind of a misogynist douche pre-ZA. Then during the ZA he swiftly becomes a psychopath. Now his good qualities have always been cited as his loyalty but how loyal was he if he broke all trust when it really mattered? He was more ruthless than Rick at that point in his efforts to survive and Rick had to grow into that but Rick turned out a more balanced and practical leader because of it. So really when I look at it he doesn't really amount to much in my opinion. Yet for some reason he gets slack and Lori doesn't. Is it because she's the woman in the scenario? They both suck in my opinion. I did empathize with them each at different times but their dramas were of their own making.
     
  12. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    Get out of my head. We are >here <
     
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  13. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    Ok he was a douche and had to die. But his body was on point. Yes I liked him for superficial reasons.
     
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  14. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    See he still has no value to me because I was never attracted to him. I've always liked Rick's kind of slender but toned build better. And I never liked Shane's face. But hey if you are influenced by aesthetics it's all good, haha.
     
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  15. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    Oh I am team Rick all the way but Shane was yummy to me.
     
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  16. lovingdead

    lovingdead The New Mrs. Grimes
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    I did like the Shane character, while actually not liking him, as the villain if that makes sense. The actor was on point, the writing complex and he was a great foil and character developing arc for Rick. But him as a person, oh hell no.
     
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  17. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    @lovingdead, I know! I'm so pitiful, I agree with all you said, that's my problem. He drew on Rick! But, I always have a doggone "but" when it comes to Shane. He was so guilt-ridden himself. He was sorry for leaving him, sorry for his feelings for Lori...he tried to leave, he was desperate. It was an impossible situation. And the scene with Michonne, I couldn't agree more. He did a noble thing, and I don't mean he "manned up" and took Judith as his own. He didn't let the love he had for Lori...and for Shane, die (I feel Glenn at work here), he let that love flow to Judith, his baby girl. The relationship he had with Shane , both before and after the turn, is a part of who Rick is. Rick told Carl he thought about Shane everyday and Rick doesn't lie. I think, for him, for Rick, Shane deciding to kill him was, as you say, something he feels is his fault. (I posted earlier what other deaths he feels are his fault, per his conversation with Michonne. Hershel? Glenn?Beth? Bob? Lori, no question. Shane?, he probably thinks so.). Shane did some dastardly things, no question. But, I get it. I always end up saying: "What could he do?" It tugs at my heart when I think of how he must have been feeling. I can't help it.
     
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  18. Ms.J.Richonne

    Ms.J.Richonne "You can smile now"
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    I think you like Shane way more than me...you got it bad.
     
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  19. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    Lol...I admit it openly. When Shane is without Rick, he has/had no release valve, someone to temper him, no one to check him, no way to pull back. No Rick to tell him what to do when Rick is in a coma, no Rick on the run with him with Otis...Rick is in charge in their relationship. Rick is in charge, period. Rick bests Shane in all ways...and Shane knew it, they both did. That is why he wanted more to be Rick than to take Rick's place or have what was Rick's and there is a difference. I get all caught up, I know it. I list all the crap that Shane did and I'm, like: "He need his a** beat", which Rick does...lol. Then, I get really sad for him. I always wish their friendship could have survived. When Ron was telling his mom that Rick was dangerous, I was all: " Rick is not dangerous, you little twerp. He is deadly, but he is not dangerous." The most glaring dfifference between Rck and Shane was just that: Rick is deadly, but Shane was dangerous. Dangerous is worse. (I am so proud, I was able to talk my own self down concerning Shane! Good for me, lol.)
     
  20. Katbird

    Katbird Awaiting Job from Deanna

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    I think it is before *Better Angels*. When Shane blurts out that Lori is pregnant, before Dale is killed?